Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Texas governor Rick Perry intentionally executed an innocent man in 2004.

The US has a long history of doing that, Oralboy.

Doing it intentionally was a new low. And you'd be so much more pleasant without the name-calling.

JTT wrote:

Also murdering, raping, torturing, poisoning, ... .

Not in the past hundred years.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

In Switzerland, you can buy only the ammunition which is appropriate for the weapon you've got the allowance for. (chapter 3, article 15 of the Swiss Weapons Law)

That just says you can only buy ammo if you are legally allowed to buy a gun.

There aren't really allowances for different types of weapons. If you can pass a background check, you can get any type of weapon that is open for civilian purchase (including semi-auto rifles and shotguns, of any caliber).

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

Currently the Supreme Court allows guns to be banned in court buildings.
Why should court buildings have a different standard than school buildings?

Are you asking as a Constitutional matter, if restrictions for schools would be Constitutionally OK?

Or as a practical matter, as in is this something we should do?

Yes, it would be OK Constitutionally. However, it would probably be a bad move on a practical level, because courts come with their own tight security. Schools, on the other hand, are presently defenseless.

Were we to give schools the same level of security that courts have, then it might make a bit more sense to prevent people from carrying guns inside.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

Not in the past hundred years.

Describe when the last one was.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

oralloy wrote:
What is it about cosmetic features like a pistol grip and flash suppressor that have you so upset?

e aree on LArge Capacity clips NO?

Probably not, but I can understand the basis of your position there.

farmerman wrote:

(So why do you try to sneak in other **** without mentioning large capacity clips?)

Who's sneaking? I was asking outright.

I asked about those features because your opposition to them is inexplicable.

I didn't ask about high capacity limitations because your opposition to them is not inexplicable. I can readily understand the basis of that position.

You must not have all that great an objection to high-capacity magazines though, since you are willing to sabotage any law against them by trying it to an unconstitutional ban on cosmetic features.

farmerman wrote:

Pistol grips and flash surpressors are also military use components ,

Nonsense. There is nothing inherently military about them.

farmerman wrote:

as are truncated barrels with screw fittings for silencers and surpressors

Civilians sometimes use such devices too.

0 Replies

Quote:

Gun control poll: Americans favor stronger laws in wake of Newtown shootings
December 28, 2012

Stronger gun laws are favored by 58 percent of Americans, the highest percentage in eight years, according to a national poll conducted after 20 elementary school students were gunned down in Newtown, Connecticut.

The results of the USA Today/Gallup poll released Thursday show 58 percent of respondents favor making laws covering the sale of firearms more strict. That’s the highest level since 2004, when 60 percent favored stronger gun laws. Thirty-four percent called for weaker laws, the same level as in 2004.

In October 2011, 43 percent favored stricter gun laws while 44 percent said the laws should remain unchanged....

Gallup’s survey is the latest poll indicating increased support for new gun regulations following the Dec. 14 killings of six educators in addition to 20 first-grade children.
http://newyork.newsday.com/news/nation/gun-control-poll-americans-favor-stronger-laws-in-wake-of-newtown-shootings-1.4383826

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Not in the past hundred years.

Describe when the last one was.

I don't really know off hand. It was probably when we massacred civilians in the Philippines. I don't remember the exact date, but it was before WWII.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

There aren't really allowances for different types of weapons. If you can pass a background check, you can get any type of weapon that is open for civilian purchase (including semi-auto rifles and shotguns, of any caliber).

Your German/French/Italian and/or Romansh must be better than my German. Or, my text is different to yours.

But I've looked it up again, these are the weapons,you're allowed to buy in Switzerland:

You need a "Waffenerwerbsschein" (weapons permit) for those above shown weapons.
If you're not a hunter, member of a sport shooting club or a registered weapon collector,you must give detailed reasons, why you want to get this permit. (See: SR 514.54, 2nd chapter, 3rd part, §§7)

2 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Therev been several tens of incidents in Philly and Camden NJ where full auto eapons ere the weapons used

Did the government prosecute the people involved?

farmerman wrote:

We have NO effective gun controls now

Sure we do. I'm going to assume that the machine guns were illegal. Were the people prosecuted for having them?

If the crime they committed (besides the crime of merely having the machinegun) was prosecuted in federal court, was there a 30 year sentencing enhancement for the use of the machinegun?

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

These are the weapons, which are 'only' to be registered after you've got the permit to buy them:

And you can buy those weapons only, if you've asked for (= given the reason why you want them) and got a special permit for each weapon (!) by your 'Kanton' (state):

(Source for all pics: brochure from the Federal Swiss Police, 2011 issue)

3 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

oralloy wrote:
The NRA does not oppose efforts to have background checks for all sales at gun shows, so long as the government is required to complete the check within 24 hours.

You dont really know do you??

They didn't object back in 1999 (or was it 98?) when they supported such a bill. I have no reason to think they changed their position.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Thats what they said about slavery nd Prohibition

Freeing slaves was a step towards freedom. It is not a valid model for a hypothetical step away from freedom.

The passage of Prohibition was a step away from freedom, and thus might be a valid model for a hypothetical rejection of the Second Amendment.

However, it should be noted that Prohibition is unique in two respects. Not only is it the only time we modified the Constitution to reject freedom, it is also the only time we then rejected a Constitutional change and went back to the old way of doing things.

Also, the Second Amendment is one of the cornerstones of the Bill of Rights. Repealing it would face much stiffer opposition than Prohibition faced.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Since December 12, 2008 the (new) Swiss Weapon Law SR 514.54 ["associated with the treaties of Schengen and Dublin"] is in effect = more or less the very same law is in all other Schengen- and EU-countries.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

Quote:

I don't really know off hand.

No, you most certainly do not know, Oralboy. You, like the vast majority of Americans are woefully ignorant of the US's evil past.

Quote:

It was probably when we massacred civilians in the Philippines.

It never stopped after that. The US only changed its mode of operation. It would install a brutal dictator and give material aid and support while the dictator slaughtered, raped, tortured. But even for those times where the US used its military, it still did the same, murder, rape and torture, plus some other equally evil things.

It's really quite easy to see that you are lying because no one can't locate a time/event when the US actually helped the people of any of the numerous countries it has invaded.

Quote:

I don't remember the exact date, but it was before WWII.

My good lord, y'all really know diddly squat about US history.

1 Reply

@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Stronger gun laws are favored by 58 percent of Americans,

That's nice and vague. Which gun laws?

And do the people polled even have a basic grasp of what current laws are?

At any rate, the will of the people comes second to the will of the Constitution, if any of those people decide they want to ban harmless cosmetic features.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

But I've looked it up again, these are the weapons,you're allowed to buy in Switzerland:

You need a "Waffenerwerbsschein" (weapons permit) for those above shown weapons.
If you're not a hunter, member of a sport shooting club or a registered weapon collector,you must give detailed reasons, why you want to get this permit. (See: SR 514.54, 2nd chapter, 3rd part, §§7)

And then, if you pass a background check, you get your permit and get your weapon.

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

And you can buy those weapons only, if you've asked for (= given the reason why you want them) and got a special permit for each weapon (!) by your 'Kanton' (state):

(Source for all pics: brochure from the Federal Swiss Police, 2011 issue)

Getting that permit is as easy as passing a background check.

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

It never stopped after that. The US only changed its mode of operation. It would install a brutal dictator and give material aid and support while the dictator slaughtered, raped, tortured.

We are not responsible for the acts of our allies.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

That's nice and vague. Which gun laws?

And do the people polled even have a basic grasp of what current laws are?

This dissembling is every bit the equal of lying, of patent dishonesty, Oralloy. Frank Apisa accused you, accurately, of the very thing that he beats the pants off you for. Parados is another great dissembler but he has taken it to a much higher level, 'paradosing', also know as, 'apisaing'.

People don't have to be completely up to speed on the ins and outs of every topic they are polled on. Hell, the vast majority of people are completely uniformed before they ever step in a voting booth. What percentage of Congress/the Senate voted to illegally invade Iraq & Afghanistan?

Idiots all.

Quote:

At any rate, the will of the people comes second to the will of the Constitution, if any of those people decide they want to ban harmless cosmetic features.

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

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