64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 05:02 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
But one that I might mention is that the violence, aggression and cod machismo surrounding the NFL is setting up a role model for young lads which might very well find outlets in mass shootings, and in ordinary everyday shootings, later on in life in a small proportion of the population.

And it wouldn't be a surprise to find that there are political links and financial links between owners of Media outlets, NFL franchises and gun manufacturers and retailers. And the red meat industry.


My god you are right we need to ban the NFL at once along with hockey however baseball is so boring we can keep it n place.
parados
 
  1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 05:06 pm
@BillRM,
Of course they do. But even with access to to bomb making materials they don't have massacres which kind of points to readily available guns being the issue. People prefer to stick to what is readily available or they don't commit the crimes if they have to manufacture the materials.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 05:16 pm
@DrewDad,


Ignoring actual empirical evidence is a symptom of left wing liberalism.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 05:17 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
But one that I might mention is that the violence, aggression and cod machismo surrounding the NFL is setting up a role model for young lads which might very well find outlets in mass shootings, and in ordinary everyday shootings, later on in life in a small proportion of the population.

And it wouldn't be a surprise to find that there are political links and financial links between owners of Media outlets, NFL franchises and gun manufacturers and retailers. And the red meat industry.


My god you are right we need to ban the NFL at once along with hockey however baseball is so boring we can keep it n place.

The left is out to neuter the NFL... it's all part of their wussification & fairness initiative.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 05:27 pm
@H2O MAN,
Quote:

Ignoring actual empirical evidence is a symptom of left wing liberalism.


Come on H2O MAN You know damn well that we have people on both sides of the isle "including ourselves" that get reality wrong.

You know very well that there are members of your own party "no matter what side you are on "you would not want to be considered related to.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 06:13 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
My god you are right we need to ban the NFL at once along with hockey however baseball is so boring we can keep it n place.


There you go Bill. Anything without violence, aggression and cod machismo is boring is it? And actors are cod merchants too. Try "make my day" on the steppes instead of in a studio.
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 06:15 pm
@BillRM,
Off course, I should have stated with "guns" ... killing 2 is not classed as mass murder via a gun, however, with fairness, he should not have had a gun, as they are banned. The other was a drifter and did not live in Australia, was not Australian.



Quote:
Childers Palace Fire - In June 2000, drifter and con-artist Robert Long started a fire at the Childers Palace backpackers hostel that killed 15 people.

Monash University shooting - In October 2002, Huan Yun Xiang, a student, shot his classmates and teacher, killing two and injuring five.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

I've already shared this link as to how many American mass murders there have been ...

Point being, our population is much, much smaller. And, the stats on guns in our possession today verses America is again, small.
spendius
 
  1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 06:15 pm
@H2O MAN,
Have you never been wussed old chap? You don't know what you're missing.

Just wait till you vital organs start getting a bit weary. You'll be yelping for some wussing. Bleating even.
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 06:16 pm
@H2O MAN,
Yep, 2 only mass murders if you can call killing 2 people and injuring 5, as one of those, since Bryant... what, 15 years? Aha.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 06:24 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
And it wouldn't be a surprise to find that there are political links and financial links between owners of Media outlets, NFL franchises and gun manufacturers and retailers


There are definite NFL franchise links--particularly in the video game industry, with sports games. But I'd rather stick to the topic of this thread.

One particularly disturbing link is between the makers of the violent video games and the gun manufacturers, and that link encourages the purchase of real weapons by the users and players of these violent games--a link Wayne LaPierre failed to note when he condemned video games, but never mentioned the gun manufacturers.

The real danger in violent video games may be their link to the gun manufacturers, and their trying to entice the game players with their real weapons.
Quote:
December 24, 2012
Real and Virtual Firearms Nurture a Marketing Link
By BARRY MEIER and ANDREW MARTIN

As Electronic Arts prepared to market Medal of Honor Warfighter, the latest version of its top-selling video game released in October, it created a Web site that promoted the manufacturers of the guns, knives and combat-style gear depicted in the game.

Among the video game giant’s marketing partners on the Web site were the McMillan Group, the maker of a high-powered sniper’s rifle, and Magpul, which sells high-capacity magazines and other accessories for assault-style weapons.

Links on the Medal of Honor site allowed visitors to click through on the Web sites of the game’s partners and peruse their catalogs.

“It was almost like a virtual showroom for guns,” said Ryan Smith, who contributes to the Gameological Society, an online gaming magazine. After Mr. Smith and other gaming enthusiasts criticized the site, Electronic Arts disabled the links, saying it had been unaware of them.

The video game industry was drawn into the national debate about gun violence last week when the National Rifle Association accused producers of violent games and movies of helping to incite the type of mass shooting that recently left 20 children and six adults dead at a school in Newtown, Conn.

While studies have found no connection between video games and gun violence, the case of Medal of Honor Warfighter illustrates how the firearms and video game industries have quietly forged a mutually beneficial marketing relationship.

Many of the same producers of firearms and related equipment are also financial backers of the N.R.A. McMillan, for example, is a corporate donor to the group, and Magpul recently joined forces with it in a product giveaway featured on Facebook. The gun group also lists Glock, Browning and Remington as corporate sponsors.

Makers of firearms and related gear have come to see video games as a way to promote their brands to millions of potential customers, marketing experts said. Magpul and Electronic Arts made a video posted on YouTube about their partnership.

“It is going to help brand perceptions,” said Stacy Jones, the president of Hollywood Branded, a company that specializes in product placement in movies and television shows.

Assault-style rifles made by Bushmaster Firearms have a roster of credits that any actor would envy, including appearances in Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2, a part of the popular Activision series.

The gunman in the Connecticut killings, Adam Lanza, used a semiautomatic rifle made by Bushmaster, which is a unit of the Freedom Group.

The most recent entry in the Call of Duty franchise, Black Ops II, featured models of weapons that are also made by Barrett and Browning. Another popular game sold by Electronic Arts, Battlefield 3, depicts assault rifles and pistols similar to those made by Colt, Heckler & Koch, Glock and Beretta.

The American military also uses Call of Duty and other video games for recruitment and to train soldiers.

An Activision spokeswoman said she was not able to get a response because of the holiday season. Several other companies, including McMillan, Magpul, Browning and Barrett, did not respond to telephone calls or e-mails. The National Rifle Association also did not respond. A Glock spokesman could not be located for comment.

In a statement, Electronic Arts said video game makers, like film producers, “frequently license the images of people, sports franchises, buildings, cars and military equipment.” The company added that it did not receive payments for using branded images in Medal of Honor.

A spokesman for the Freedom Group, Ted Novin, said in an e-mail that Bushmaster had “received no payment, nor have we paid for placement of our products in Call of Duty.”

“The gaming and entertainment industry routinely use likeness of our products without our permission,” he added in the e-mail. But he did not respond when asked if Activision had received the Freedom Group’s permission to depict its products in Call of Duty.

The Freedom Group is owned by Cerberus Capital. After the Connecticut school shooting, Cerberus announced that it would seek a buyer for the Freedom Group.

Many players of shooting games like Medal of Honor and Call of Duty say they enjoy the simulated violence and the chance to virtually fire weapons even if they never touch a real gun. But along with some gaming fans, some firearms enthusiasts have become uncomfortable with the growing ties between video games and gun companies.

A few years ago, when the marketer of a semiautomatic pistol, the Skorpion, publicized its depiction in some games, the editor of the Firearm Blog, which follows industry developments, expressed surprise.

“I think most companies want to distance themselves from violent video games,” the editor, Steve Johnson, wrote.

Over the past decade, handguns made by Glock have become such standard fare in movies and television shows that the Austrian manufacturer received a lifetime achievement award in 2010 from Brandchannel, a product marketing Web site.

Game publishers like Activision and Electronic Arts race against one another to create the most realistic games, said Laura Parker, associate editor for Gamespot Australia, a gaming Web site.

“They believe the use of real-world brands — be it clothing, tactical equipment or guns — is a way to ensure that games like Call of Duty and Medal of Honor feel as close to real life as possible,” Ms. Parker said via e-mail.

Some video game makers use depictions of weapons that are slight modifications of real ones or alter their names, avoiding possible legal complications.

But most established video game developers and publishers, given the huge amount of money invested in a game, seek out explicit authorizations or licenses from product manufacturers, said Matthew Syrkin, a lawyer at Hughes, Hubbard & Reed who represents companies in the video game industry.

“There is a material risk in putting anything into a game unless you have a license,” said Mr. Syrkin, who added that such agreements also protect manufacturers from having their products depicted in an illegal or unflattering manner.

The Connecticut shooting is not the first time violent video games have been blamed for causing violence, including mass shootings. A similar outcry followed the 1999 shootings at Columbine High School in Colorado by two teenagers who played Doom, then a popular video game.

Last year, a Norwegian who killed 77 said later that he honed his shooting skills by playing many hours of Call of Duty.

In the case of the recent promotional Web site for partners of Medal of Honor Warfighter, a spokesman for Electronic Arts said it took action after it discovered that gamers could click through to its partners’ sites.

“We felt it was inappropriate and took the links down,” said Jeff Brown, a spokesman for Electronic Arts, in an e-mail.

But Mr. Smith, the gaming enthusiast who wrote about the links, said the company had not gone far enough. Mr. Smith said the direct link is gone, but visitors to the site can still search for a gun and “take a few extra steps to buy it.”

“I personally think they should not have real weapons in the games in the first place,” he said. “It’s just bad to link things you can do in a game with tools of death you can use in real life.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/25/business/real-and-virtual-firearms-nurture-marketing-link.html


Quote:

December 25, 2012,
‘Warfighter’ Video Game Is Linked to Gun Makers
By THE INTERNATIONAL HERALD TRIBUNE

It has not yet been two weeks since Adam Lanza used two handguns and an assault rifle to kill 20 first-graders and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut.

A week later, Wayne LaPierre of the National Rifle Association implicated violent video games — “a callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells and stows violence against its own people” — for helping to incite Sandy Hook and other mass attacks.

The video game company Electronic Arts has created a Web site that promotes the manufacturers of guns, knives and combat-style gear depicted in the latest version of its top-selling game, Medal of Honor Warfighter, as our colleagues Barry Meier and Andrew Martin reported in The New York Times.

“Among the video game giant’s marketing partners on the Web site were the McMillan Group, the maker of a high-powered sniper’s rifle, and Magpul, which sells high-capacity magazines and other accessories for assault-style weapons.”

On the site’s home page, the logos of various gun and equipment manufacturers are displayed under the headline “Authentic Games. Authentic Brands.” The game is rated M, for mature, and carries warnings about “blood, intense violence and strong language.”

Two other brief excerpts from Barry and Andrew’s article:

While studies have found no connection between video games and gun violence, the case of Medal of Honor Warfighter illustrates how the firearms and video game industries have quietly forged a mutually beneficial marketing relationship.”

Many of the same producers of firearms and related equipment are also financial backers of the N.R.A. McMillan, for example, is a corporate donor to the group, and Magpul recently joined forces with it in a product giveaway featured on Facebook. The gun group also lists Glock, Browning and Remington as corporate sponsors.


As the Rendezvous editor Marcus Mabry recently reported, Mr. LaPierre of the N.R.A. found no fault with gun manufacturers but instead blamed other factors for violent behavior, notably video games “with names like Bulletstorm, Grand Theft Auto, Mortal Kombat and Splatterhouse.”

“And here’s one: It’s called Kindergarten Killers,” Mr. LaPierre told a crowded news conference. “It’s been online for 10 years.”

He also condemned violent music videos and films as “the filthiest form of pornography,” and he assailed media conglomerates for “bringing an even more toxic mix of reckless behavior and criminal cruelty right into our homes, every minute, every day, every hour of every single year.”
http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/25/warfighter-video-game-offers-links-to-actual-guns/?scp=1&sq=video+games&st=nyt


The link between the violent video games and the gun manufacturers, who are trying to promote and sell their real life weapons to this group of players, is disturbing food for thought.

0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 06:56 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
I think that any new assault weapons ban will re-define the term "assault weapon" so that it focuses on the semi-automatic capacity of the gun and not just on "cosmetic features".


You seriously think the Democrats will try to ban semi-autos???

That move would not only get 100% of the NRA in fierce opposition, it would get nearly all gun owners who are not in the NRA in fierce opposition.

Plus, it would be highly questionable whether such a move would pass muster with Strict Scrutiny.
oralloy
 
  0  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 06:57 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
How true. The entertainment value, and unintended humor, in oralloy's posts is wonderful. I also appreciate the laughs.


It's a shame you resort to childishness when you can't deal with facts.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 06:59 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
While Frank was right about Oralloy,


Hardly. Frank is lying about me because he can't confront any of the facts I raise.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 06:59 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
oralloy wrote:
parados wrote:
So you admit weapons were made with the banned features. How is that so oralloy? If something is banned then it can't be manufactured, don't you agree? Or are you arguing that a partial ban is the same thing as a ban?


I've already explained my position very clearly, and you are just trying to misrepresent it in an attempt to obscure the facts.


You mean this position?


Quote:
Rational Basis Review prohibits the government from banning harmless cosmetic features like pistol grips and flash suppressors. And the courts might even apply a more stringent standard than Rational Basis Review.

Now stop playing page after page of silly mind games.


Let me ask you again. Were pistol grips banned or not?


I already answered that. The answer remains, within the context of the previous explanations given, YES.

Repeating the question yet again, will not change the answer.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 07:00 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Have you never been wussed old chap


When was the last time you were wussed old chap?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 07:01 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
That might be an argument against those who want rifles banned but it isn't against those who want guns banned. And the latter compose most, possibly all, of your opponents on this thread.


Nonsense. Very few people here want to ban all guns.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 07:03 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
There may be "gun nuts," but you are a perfect example of an anti-gun nut.


...because it's crazy to look at actual empirical evidence and draw conclusions from it.


Like the fact that gun availability has little impact on homicide rates and no impact on suicide rates?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 07:58 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: JTT (Post 5212073)
JTT wrote:
While Frank was right about Oralloy,



Hardly. Frank is lying about me because he can't confront any of the facts I raise.


I have "confronted" just about every pretend "fact" you have raised. You simply are not able to acknowledge your deficiencies...and prefer instead to use that "Liar" you shout so often.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 08:03 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: DrewDad (Post 5212544)
DrewDad wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
There may be "gun nuts," but you are a perfect example of an anti-gun nut.


Quote:
...because it's crazy to look at actual empirical evidence and draw conclusions from it.



Like the fact that gun availability has little impact on homicide rates and no impact on suicide rates?


Interesting, if correct.

But I can absolutely guarantee you that there are more shootings in rooms where there are guns...than there are in rooms where there are no guns.

Work from there...and see what you get.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 08:43 pm
@oralloy,
So your position is that banning pistol grips occurred even though they were not banned in all instances, is that correct?
 

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