64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 01:14 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
That indicates that 40% of the prison population are violent offenders.


An my research shown an 86 percent or more nonviolence prison population.
parados
 
  2  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 02:11 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

parados wrote:
So you admit weapons were made with the banned features. How is that so oralloy? If something is banned then it can't be manufactured, don't you agree? Or are you arguing that a partial ban is the same thing as a ban?


I've already explained my position very clearly, and you are just trying to misrepresent it in an attempt to obscure the facts.


You mean this position?


Quote:
Rational Basis Review prohibits the government from banning harmless cosmetic features like pistol grips and flash suppressors. And the courts might even apply a more stringent standard than Rational Basis Review.

Now stop playing page after page of silly mind games.

Let me ask you again. Were pistol grips banned or not?
BillRM
 
  0  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 02:26 pm
To all who wish to removed so call assault rifles I did a fast check and found that you are roughly in the US four times in any given year more likely to be killed by knives and three times to be killed by a baseball bat or similar weapon then any types of rifle assault or otherwise.
spendius
 
  0  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 02:38 pm
@BillRM,
That might be an argument against those who want rifles banned but it isn't against those who want guns banned. And the latter compose most, possibly all, of your opponents on this thread.

H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 02:45 pm


Those that want all guns banned are idiots.
spendius
 
  2  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 02:47 pm
@H2O MAN,
So what?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 02:56 pm


Registration, followed by a ban that requires confiscation is a terrible idea

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/548808_460126197377985_1770643727_n.png
parados
 
  2  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 03:20 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

To all who wish to removed so call assault rifles I did a fast check and found that you are roughly in the US four times in any given year more likely to be killed by knives and three times to be killed by a baseball bat or similar weapon then any types of rifle assault or otherwise.

And where did you do that supposed research?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 03:48 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
I know that Frank would welcome them with open arms.


No I would not, JTT...not at all.

Everything that has to be said about the shooting in Newtown...and about banning weapons has already been said dozens of times. Nothing is being interrupted here except, perhaps, your peace of mind.

You claim that I made a Freudian slip...and that I displayed hypocrisy. I've asked you to point it out...and you have avoided doing so.

I can understand that, because you cannot.

And, I am getting a kick out of your attempts to avoid it.
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  2  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 04:00 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O....

But what is the population of Australia verses America? If you want stats, check this out...

No one is saying that murders are not going to continue to happen, that's life.

But, Australia has had no, mass murders since the gun control and in my opinion that says something..........



http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ask_this.view&askthisid=491

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/16/gun_control_after_connecticut_shooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html

Quote:
After a 1996 Mass Shooting, Australia Enacted Strict Gun Laws. It Hasn't Had a Similar Massacre Since.

Quote:
Australia’s population of 22 million is a fraction of the U.S. population (2011 estimate: 310 million),


Q. How extensive is gun ownership in Australia compared to the United States?

Quote:
According to the Australian Institute of Criminology (AIC) about 10 percent of Australian households, most of them in rural areas, have at least one gun, reflecting a decline from about 20 percent in 1989. Currently about 5.2 percent of Australian adults (765,000 people) own and use firearms for hunting, controlling feral animals, target shooting and collecting


Quote:
Australia, with a population of 22 million, has a total of 2.5 million registered firearms, the AIC said. While it is difficult to estimate the number of illegal guns, a study by Sydney University’s School of Public Health estimated there are about 20,000 illegal handguns in Australia.


Quote:
In contrast, surveys in the United States last year showed that an estimated 40-45 percent of households had guns and 30-34 percent of American adults own at least one gun.


Quote:
there are between 238 million and 276 million privately-owned firearms in the U.S., which has an estimated population of 310 million. The survey reported that about 4.5 million of the 8 million new guns manufactured worldwide each year are purchased in the United States.


Quote:
In Australia in 2006, a firearm was used in 17 per cent of murders, while knives, the most common weapon reported, were used in 34 per cent of murders. In robberies, guns were used in only 7 per cent of the offenses, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics.


Quote:
A sharply declining trend in gun use in homicides and robberies began in 1969, the year of the Port Arthur gun massacre and the imposition of tight gun control, which followed a year in which 44 per cent of all homicides were by gun, according to the National Homicide Monitoring Program (NHMP). In the 2008 fiscal year, Australia had 260 homicides, or 1.2 homicides per 100,000 population.

In the United States, the story is different. In 2008, according to a Federal Bureau of Investigation report, there were 16,272 homicides, of which 10,886 (or 67 per cent) were committed with guns. In 2006, firearms were used in 67.9 percent of the nation’s murders, in 42.2 percent of the robbery offenses, and in 21.9 percent of the aggravated assaults, according to the FBI report. In 2005, 75 percent of homicides by firearms in the United States were committed using handguns, according to the FBI. This compared to 4 percent with rifles, 5 percent with shotguns, and the rest with unspecified types of firearms.


Quote:
A University of Sydney study in 2006 found that the 1996 buyback program saw suicide and homicide deaths fall from an average of 521 a year to 289, "suggesting that the removal of more than 700,000 guns was associated with a faster declining rate of gun suicide and gun homicide.” The study said that that in the 18 years before the gun buyback there were an average of 492 firearm suicides a year, but after the buyback that figure dropped to an average of 247
spendius
 
  0  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 04:06 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
There are other aspects of the shooting episode at Sandy Hook Elementary School, and tangential issues related to it, which aren't even being explored, or mentioned, or discussed yet--even after 130+ pages.


Yes. There are a couple of aspects I am not prepared to bring up.

But one that I might mention is that the violence, aggression and cod machismo surrounding the NFL is setting up a role model for young lads which might very well find outlets in mass shootings, and in ordinary everyday shootings, later on in life in a small proportion of the population.

And it wouldn't be a surprise to find that there are political links and financial links between owners of Media outlets, NFL franchises and gun manufacturers and retailers. And the red meat industry.

reasoning logic
 
  0  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 04:20 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
You go Girl. It looks like you been doing some homework.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 04:28 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Australia has a smaller population than the US, but that did
not stop crime from going up after their gun ban was imposed.

There are tens of millions semi-automatic firearms that would
require NFA registration were the Feinstein AWB signed into law.
Aside from the Constitutional issues, the administrative burden
of local LE agencies and the BATFE NFA Branch trying to deal
with this "law" would be monumental.
Val Killmore
 
  0  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 04:34 pm
@H2O MAN,
The gun ban did nothing to curve violence or crime as a whole in Australia. Before the ban, only a very low minority of the populous of Australia owned guns, and around the same number of people owned guns after the ban as before the ban. Australia does not have a gun culture like Switzerland, so comparing Australia to America is useless, as I've explained before.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 04:38 pm
@Val Killmore,


When it comes to guns, it's very hard to compare the US to any other country...
no other country has a constitution that grants it's citizens the rights ours does.

All of this talk of banning this & that only weakens this countries core foundation.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 04:45 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

An my research shown an 86 percent or more nonviolence prison population.

And I think your "research" is incorrect, inaccurate, and significantly inconsistent with all other estimates I have found. Your figures don't make sense, or even explain, why we have so many maximum security prisons at the state level. I think that 40% of the prison population are incarcerated due to violent crimes.

Quote:
Criminologists and legal experts here and abroad point to a tangle of factors to explain America’s extraordinary incarceration rate: higher levels of violent crime, harsher sentencing laws, a legacy of racial turmoil, a special fervor in combating illegal drugs, the American temperament, and the lack of a social safety net. Even democracy plays a role, as judges — many of whom are elected, another American anomaly — yield to populist demands for tough justice...

The nation’s relatively high violent crime rate, partly driven by the much easier availability of guns here, helps explain the number of people in American prisons.

“The assault rate in New York and London is not that much different,” said Marc Mauer, the executive director of the Sentencing Project, a research and advocacy group. “But if you look at the murder rate, particularly with firearms, it’s much higher.”

Despite the recent decline in the murder rate in the United States, it is still about four times that of many nations in Western Europe....
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/us/23prison.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

The fact that you carry a gun, and protect your home with still more, stems from your own fears that someone who would seek to commit a crime against you would be armed, so you need to protect/defend yourself with lethal force to avoid becoming the victim of a criminal with a gun--and you've told us that repeatedly, in other threads as well as this one. Either you really need a gun for protection, because of the reality of violent crime--in large part due to the prevalence of guns in this country--or you are just a paranoid nut job with irrational fears. Which is it, BillRM, you can't have it both ways.



BillRM
 
  1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 04:53 pm
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
Those that want all guns banned are idiots.


That is being t0o kind as such an unconstitutional attempts would be interesting in the US and would make far more blood run into the street then the Drug war.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 04:54 pm
@firefly,
There may be "gun nuts," but you are a perfect example of an anti-gun nut.
BillRM
 
  1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 04:57 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
But, Australia has had no, mass murders since the gun control and in my opinion that says something..........


So Australians do not have access to gasoline or home make explosives or a millions others way to do mass killings other then by guns?
DrewDad
 
  1  
Sun 30 Dec, 2012 05:01 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

There may be "gun nuts," but you are a perfect example of an anti-gun nut.

...because it's crazy to look at actual empirical evidence and draw conclusions from it.
 

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