Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

Keep in mind that a fair degree of precision is usually desired.

Well, I for one have no idea.

Propaganda? There are dead children as the result of guns.

he sold a few thousand more assault weapons

A PM here who didn't climb out of it would resign.

A police with a gun in his holster will not be able to protect anyone; including himself from somebody with a rifle with scope

Okay, hawk, round up all the crazies in this country - to make us all "safe."

You ******* idiot!

Okay, hawk, round up all the crazies in this country - to make us all "safe."

You ******* idiot!

We have no sense of sensible risk management or proportion.

@reply all

Today's senseless tragedy due to guns...

Quote:

Two firefighters shot dead in upstate New York
By Catherine E. Shoichet and Chuck Johnston, CNN
Mon December 24, 2012

(CNN) -- At least two firefighters were shot and killed at the scene of a fire that engulfed multiple houses in upstate New York on Monday, police said.

Doctors treated two other firefighters for gunshot wounds, police in Webster, New York, told reporters.

Authorities believe one or more shooters took aim at the firefighters after they left their vehicles, Police Chief Gerald Pickering said.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo described it as a "horrific shooting" and a "senseless act of violence."

"Volunteer firefighters and police officers were injured and two were taken from us as they once again answered the call of duty," he said in a statement.

It was unclear whether there were any suspects.

"We have different individuals that were possible people with knowledge, but at this point I can't really comment," Monroe County Sheriff Patrick O'Flynn told reporters.

For hours, the gunfire stopped firefighters from working to extinguish the flames and forced police SWAT teams to evacuate homes in the area.

Firefighters first arrived before 6 a.m., said Rob Boutillier, Webster's fire marshal. By 9 a.m., flames had engulfed three houses and a vehicle, he said.

"It's still an active crime scene," Pickering said. "We have firefighters there at the location. It took a while to make it safe ... to put out the fires."

Doctors were treating the wounded firefighters Monday morning, said Teri D'Agostino, a spokeswoman for Strong Memorial Hospital in Rochester, New York. They were in guarded condition, she said.

One firefighter escaped from the scene in his own vehicle about an hour after he was shot, then was taken to the hospital by an ambulance from another location, Boutillier said.

Another wounded firefighter was conscious and speaking when he was removed from the scene, Boutillier said.

The shooting comes amid a renewed debate over gun control in the United States after a gunman killed 26 people at a Connecticut elementary school earlier this month.

President Barack Obama has set a January deadline for "concrete proposals" to deal with gun violence.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-California, has said she will introduce legislation to reinstate the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004. The White House has said that the president supports that effort.

Speaking to reporters on Friday, the National Rifle Association's president called for more guns in the wake of the mass shooting, proposing putting an armed guard in every U.S. school in order to protect children.

On Sunday, NRA President Wayne LaPierre told NBC's "Meet the Press" that he would not express support for any new gun restrictions, saying most gun laws on the books are currently rarely enforced.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/24/us/new-york-firefighters-shooting/?hpt=us_c1

America is the land of senseless gun violence.

Okay, hawk, round up all the crazies in this country - to make us all "safe."

You ******* idiot!

Quote:

Sure they do: Enact proper defenses.

How were those volunteer firemen---one of whom was a policemen--supposed to protect themselves from that killer?

These deaths were as horrible as those of the children--these are the people who dedicate themselves to helping and protecting the rest of us.

We have mass shootings going on regularly--and it is insane not to better regulate and control firearms. The more guns there are, the easier it becomes for anyone to get their hands on one. The man who murdered these fireman was not only a convicted felon, he apparently had a long history of mental illness.

There should be a way of tracing the ownership of all guns.

Zug, Switzerland, Sept. 27, 2001: A man whose lawsuits had been denied murdered 14 members of a cantonal parliament.

Tours, France, Oct. 29, 2001: Four people were killed and ten wounded when a French railway worker started shooting at a busy intersection.

Nanterre, France, March 27, 2002: A man killed eight city-council members after a council meeting.

Erfurt, Germany, April 26, 2002: A former student killed 18 at a secondary school.

Freising, Germany, Feb. 19, 2002: Three people killed and one wounded.

Turin, Italy, Oct. 15, 2002: Seven people killed on a hillside overlooking the city.


Madrid, Spain, Oct. 1, 2006: A man killed two employees and wounded another at a company that had fired him.

Emsdetten, Germany, Nov. 20, 2006: A former student murdered eleven people at a high school.

Tuusula, Finland, Nov. 7, 2007: Seven students and the principal killed at a high school.

Naples, Italy, Sept. 18, 2008: Seven dead and two seriously wounded in a public meeting hall. (This incident is not included in the totals given below because it may have involved the Mafia.)

Kauhajoki, Finland, Sept. 23, 2008: Ten people shot to death at a college.

Winnenden, Germany, March 11, 2009: A 17-year-old former student killed 15 people, including nine students and three teachers.

Lyon, France, March 19, 2009: Ten people injured when a man opened fire on a nursery school.

Athens, Greece, April 10, 2009: Three people killed and two injured by a student at a vocational college.

Rotterdam, Netherlands, April 11, 2009: Three people killed and one injured at a crowded café.

Vienna, Austria, May 24, 2009: One dead and 15 wounded in an attack on a Sikh temple.

Espoo, Finland, Dec. 31, 2009: Four people shot to death at a mall.

Cumbria, England, June 2, 2010: Twelve killed by a British taxi driver.

Go back and read your statements Val. You misrepresented DrewDad's argument by stating he wanted to ban all guns. THEN you attempted to refute the argument you made up but attributed to DrewDad by using an analogy.
Your analogy was the refutation NOT the misrepresentation.

http://able2know.org/topic/203766-80#post-5203650

Val Killmore wrote:

DrewDad wrote:

The suggestion that we need "more good guys with guns"(Actual argument by LaPierre) is like suggesting the Titanic should hit another iceberg, but on the other side of the ship.(Analogy that attempts to refute LaPierre's argument)

The suggestion that we should ban guns in America (Drew Dad never made such an argument so the straw man basis)is like suggesting ships should be banned from sailing the seas after the Titanic crashed into an iceberg and sank.(The analogy attempts to refute an argument never made so completes the strawman fallacy.)

Now, unless you want to argue that LaPierre never made the statement that we need more good guys with guns there is no straw man in DrewDad's laying out the opponents argument and then refutation with an analogy. You can't argue that the analogy misrepresents the argument by LaPierre since it clearly is based on the argument that LaPierre DID make.

DrewDad wrote:

The suggestion that we need "more good guys with guns"(Actual argument by LaPierre) is like suggesting the Titanic should hit another iceberg, but on the other side of the ship.(Analogy that attempts to refute LaPierre's argument)

we should instead focus on finding and fixing those who want to do evil...or can't resist doing evil?

those who refuse to conform to basic standards such as don't kill you fellow men should be rounded up and put away till they are ready to not be a threat to the collective.