HOLOCAUST........ Fact or Fiction?

@Krumple,

The building company which build the crematoria in Auschwitz - you certanly saw quite a few references of it in your sources, like plans, bills etc. (Most of it's [former] archive is exhibited in the museum.)

Krumple wrote:

I just don't think the numbers of gassing are actually true. Let me make this clear again. I never claimed that NO gassing took place. I am saying there is a problem with the numbers.

The only 'problem with the number of gassed prisoners is .... that their number isn't definitely known. Due to various reasons, one of it was described in my post about a different KZ.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Well, it it tough to tell what you are disputing.
You have disputed the numbers of people gassed, you have said that the holocaust is comparable to the Israeli-Palestinian problems, you have questioned why people had their heads shaved, you have questioned the design of some of the camps and the crematorium, you have been all over the map with your disputes about the holocaust.

On page 4 of this thread your initial dispute was about haircuts, so I don't know what it is you are actually questioning.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

The building company which build the crematoria in Auschwitz - you certanly saw quite a few references of it in your sources, like plans, bills etc. (Most of it's [former] archive is exhibited in the museum.)

Yeah I referenced several design plans of the crematoriums. Camp layouts and expansion plans to increase the size of some of them.

Krumple wrote:

I just don't think the numbers of gassing are actually true. Let me make this clear again. I never claimed that NO gassing took place. I am saying there is a problem with the numbers.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

The only 'problem with the number of gassed prisoners is .... that their number isn't definitely known. Due to various reasons, one of it was described in my post about a different KZ.

Wow after how many posts do you finally say this? Which leads me to believe that you are just covering your tracks. Why wasn't this your first response to me?

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

holocaust is comparable to the Israeli-Palestinian problems,

In no way did I compare the two. That is bullshit.

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@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

I took the premise of my questions from actual documentary interviews of survivors. You have absolutely NO CLUE what you are talking about. You have NO IDEA what I was even addressing.

It certainly looks like that this is your opinion.
But your opinion unfortunately isn't shared by anyone who looks at topics from a historical point of view or who researches history.

We learn how to do such here at school (but I've learnt that we do at school what is done in the USA in the first two years at college).

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

On page 4 of this thread your initial dispute was about haircuts, so I don't know what it is you are actually questioning.

I was asking a question. Why would they bother to shave the heads of the prisoners if they were going to be gassed a few minutes later. Some argue that they did it to make them feel like they were just going into take a shower. It is nonsense because they could have used other means to get the same result. Not only that but it doesn't hold up to what several witnesses claim.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

It certainly looks like that this is your opinion.
But your opinion unfortunately isn't shared by anyone who looks at topics from a historical point of view or who researches history.

How can it be my opinion when I am taking statements from survivor videos? I am using the numbers they provide. This is getting ridiculous.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

Wow after how many posts do you finally say this? Which leads me to believe that you are just covering your tracks. Why wasn't this your first response to me?

Because the only ones who 'dispute' the numbers of those gassed are to be found on Holocaust-denier websites and in publications by Holocaust deniers.
There are various historians using different methods (at different times as well) to get these numbers - but none has ever serious claimed his/her number to be totally correct. There's always a "at least" to "up to" ... besides Holocausts deniers, who are fixed on a certain number ...

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@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

How can it be my opinion when I am taking statements from survivor videos? I am using the numbers they provide. This is getting ridiculous.

You are taking a number provided by a survivor of a KZ in a video which you saw as a historical fact. And you are disputing this fact. Did I understand you correctly?

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Quote:

I never claimed that NO gassing took place. I am saying there is a problem with the numbers.

You claimed the problem occurs because you can't get to 6 million.
You then agree that the number gassed is NOT 6 million.
When are you going to redo your numbers?

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

There are various historians using different methods (at different times as well) to get these numbers - but none has ever serious claimed his/her number to be totally correct. There's always a "at least" to "up to" ... besides Holocausts deniers, who are fixed on a certain number ...

But that is just the thing. As soon as you start working the numbers the best I can get out of Auschwitz realistically is 500,o00. Which is still a large number but it is no where near the long told numbers. And even a 700,000 was a stretch because I omitted a lot of things that require time to complete, such as cleaning out the furnaces, escorting prisoners, taking time to de-clothe them, shave their heads and take photos of them.

All of these things take time which cuts into the possible execution time which was also left out. I didn't even factor in how long it would require for them to die, which some claims say 20 minutes. Even to cut that in half to 10 minutes each gassing would increase the amount of time required to complete the over all total possible.

I wrote up the best possible case scenario and exaggerated the numbers in favor of the claims and I still couldn't get the claims to zero out.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Krumple wrote:

I took the premise of my questions from actual documentary interviews of survivors. You have absolutely NO CLUE what you are talking about. You have NO IDEA what I was even addressing.

It certainly looks like that this is your opinion.
But your opinion unfortunately isn't shared by anyone who looks at topics from a historical point of view or who researches history.

We learn how to do such here at school (but I've learnt that we do at school what is done in the USA in the first two years at college).

That's the problem, Krump -- nobody has any idea of what you're addressing. As Mysteryman has already pointed out, you are so all over the map here and totally unfocused.

[Walter -- sorry for using your post to pick up the quote from this idiot. But I have the poster on ignore and so the only way I even get a look at his/her posts is when you or someone else quotes the joker.]

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

You claimed the problem occurs because you can't get to 6 million.
You then agree that the number gassed is NOT 6 million.
When are you going to redo your numbers?

Coming from the person who claimed I never mentioned the lift when I did, is now trying to state what I did say? Really?

1 Reply

@parados,

Krumple still doesn't "get it" that almost everybody on this thread has questioned his statements and his alone, and he still thinks he's talking about factual history.

There's no cure for s..........

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@Lustig Andrei,

Lustig Andrei wrote:

That's the problem, Krump -- nobody has any idea of what you're addressing. As Mysteryman has already pointed out, you are so all over the map here and totally unfocused.

It is not my fault that all of you seem to lack the ability to follow a simple line of reasoning. Don't blame me that you don't understand a simple thing such as math.

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@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

parados wrote:
Clearly you weren't since you have been using a figure of 6 million. This has been pointed out to you and yet you persist in arguing your silly numbers prove 6 million Jews weren't gassed.

Once again you are a moron. I can't believe that you failed time and time again on actually reading a simple paragraph.

Perhaps the problem is in YOUR writing - you used the 6 million figure more than once in talking about the crematoria.

Krumple wrote:

Even if you were to add up all the camps who had crematories you can't get a 6 million figure.

Krumple wrote:

This means 1.6 million in 5 years.
1,690,140 in 5 years.

Far short of the 6 million mark.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

I at least have the sense enough to admit when I was wrong.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

You are taking a number provided by a survivor of a KZ in a video which you saw as a historical fact. And you are disputing this fact. Did I understand you correctly?

No why would I take a statement that I thought was fact and then test it? That is silly. I took several consistent claims from several different survivor videos and not only that but from authors who wrote specifically on the subject. It seems to be that the suggested numbers are from 1.1 million to 1.5 million gassed in Auschwitz within a five year time line, roughly between 1940 to 1945.

The interesting thing is crematorium 2 wasn't finished until march of 1943 so there is less than a 2 year running time available for it. There were smaller buildings referred to as the bunkers at the Auschwitz site that were claimed to have been used to gas prisoners prior to the constructions of crematorium 2, 3 and 4. But it seems strange if they were designing these bigger crematoriums to ramp up their gassing strategy to design them in such an insufficient way as many of the claims suggest was the reasoning behind building them.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

I at least have the sense enough to admit when I was wrong.

Parados you still don't understand something that I have repeated to you dozens of times already. That number 1.7 million requires that they be gassed and burned 24/7 just to get that number. Not only that but each furnace would have to have 2 bodies and all three crematoriums running non stop. Just to get to that number. It is unrealistic.

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@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

There were smaller buildings referred to as the bunkers at the Auschwitz site that were claimed to have been used to gas prisoners prior to the constructions of crematorium 2, 3 and 4.

That's interesting Krumple.
Earlier you stated this..

Krumple wrote:

Some argue there were additional crematories on the camp. Yes this is true but there was only two in operation. The third was never completed. The german guards also claim that crematory 1 (the other functioning building) was never used. Crematory 2 was the only one in operation according to many claims from guards.

Which is it? Only one crematoria or the 3 you are now talking about?

1 Reply

HOLOCAUST........ Fact or Fiction?

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