HOLOCAUST........ Fact or Fiction?

@Harper,

Harper, If it's your desire to teach history at the college level, my best wishes for your pursuit.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

No we do not care what pieces of out of context bits of informations you had try to spin into questioning the killings of 6 millions or so people in the heart of Europe that happen such a short time ago that there are still survivors walking the earth.

Then you admit that you don't care about any data. You say screw the data vote with your feelings. Which is the problem with our society today. You don't care about truth. Let's put it this way. If it is true, then you shouldn't even be worried that I am testing the claims. The truth will always be discovered. The fact that you think I have some negative agenda or hatred only shows that you don't even know what I have said.

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@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

Actually no they came from a survivor video.

I didn't know that prisoners had taken videos (?) - I only know of drawings by some prisoners (this one is from Theresienstadt) ...

... and the official photographs, like this from Dachau

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Krumple wrote:

Actually no they came from a survivor video.
I didn't know that prisoners had taken videos

I am talking about interviews of survivors after the war ended. Some recent, some right after the war ended. Several hours worth of video interviews. Asked all sorts of questions. Some insignificant and other aspects were pieces of data that I collected to verify or compare with other sources.

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@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

You have no clue what I wrote. You didn't even bother to check what I had put out. I knew this from when you first started responding to me that you neglected to even look over what I had explained because your response reflected a person who had no clue what was being discussed and it was just an emotional response following the herd.

And you definitely have no idea about what was going on in the KZ's ... read Himmlers diary ...

... and have a look at Speer's plans before you write about designs and purposes of KZ-buildings!

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

... and have a look at Speer's plans before you write about designs and purposes of KZ-buildings!

Once again I DID!

How many times does it need to be said?

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

I am talking about interviews of survivors after the war ended. Some recent, some right after the war ended. Several hours worth of video interviews. Asked all sorts of questions. Some insignificant and other aspects were pieces of data that I collected to verify or compare with other sources.

And even then you disregarded all the primary sources? Why?

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@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
... and have a look at Speer's plans before you write about designs and purposes of KZ-buildings!

Once again I DID!

How many times does it need to be said?

Oh. You must have used a very simple and small dictionary then.

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There is also the loss of the present population of Jewish people due to the Holocaust, regardless of how many, or how it was effected. Meaning that at the beginning of WWII, there were about 18 million Jews in the world. After the war there were 12 million. However, (this is the point folks) if there had been no Holocaust, today the world would have 32 million Jews to be friendly or antagonistic towards (according to conservative estimates).

That reflects a lost opportunity of Jews having 14 million more co-religionists to tell Jewish jokes to. And, with the number of Jews "marrying-out," one can say those lost 14 million would today come in handy (to young Jews wanting to find a Jewish mate).

Get it. The effects of the Holocaust are still like ghosts, haunting world Jewry. All this other talk is just so much emphasizing the wrong syl-la-ble, so to speak, in my opinion.

So, in my opinion, starting with Krumple, and continuing with 13,999,999 other people, should convert to Judaism to balance the books, so to speak, as to how many Jews the world should have (according the God of the Hebrews, of course).

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Oh. You must have used a very simple and small dictionary then.

See here is the thing again. Witness testimony is not reliable. No courts actually solely base cases on witnesses because they are unreliable. Therefore you need to use their statements and compare them to physical evidence. In this case maps of building layouts. But like I have said before, the building layouts themselves have problems. I ran the numbers and showed the difficulty in carrying out the exterminations. What would be involved in carrying them out. The physical problems involved in carrying them out. The time involved in carrying them out. What plausible scenarios in the "best" case scenario to carry them out. Here is the thing. I exaggerated the data in favor of the claims and I still could not get them to work.

The conclusion I came to was that it would require a five year span for Auschwitz to exterminate 1.1-1.5 million and they would have to run their extermination plan 24 hours a day, 7 days a week straight for the five years to reach the 1.1-1.5 million mark.

However; the claims are that there was only a two year span when the exterminations were "picked up". This means that there were previous exterminations but not at the level desired by the germans. So they sought to construct "better more efficient" means to commit their exterminations.

I used one layout which was crematorium 2 in Auschwitz as an example of how inefficiency it was to carry out gassing. So if the germans had mass extermination in mind, this building was not suited to mass killings. I won't point out why again here because I have already covered it and showed my work. I supplied a map of the building and listed what each room was for and it's purpose. (the definitions I used were that of the claims not my opinion.)

I don't even know why I am reexplaining it because you really don't care about how I arrived at my conclusions. You just assume I read some website and then rehashed the anti-holocaust statements. You don't care how I did my figuring. You don't care how I came about testing the claims. You really don't care about what my final results were. If you actually had cared you would have seen or taken the time to examine the work or point out weaknesses in the data. You didn't because you don't care about the data.

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@Walter Hinteler,

These is the plan as of 1944 of the smallest of all concentration camps

It was never realised.

That camp was not a 'death camp', but a concentration camp for Jehovah's Witnesses, political prisoners, Sinti and Romani people, Yeniche, homosexuals, Jews, prisoners of war and forced laborers from Poland, the Soviet Union (also prisoners of war), Czechoslovakia, France, the Netherlands and Belgium. Until 1941, the registration office in the district town certified the deaths. But then, the local village should register them. Since they couldn't afford an own office, the KZ got an own registration office. And the SS 'forgot' to register the deaths ...

The crematory (built 1941/2) as of 1945/6

Out of the 3,900 prisoners (from 1939 until 1945) at least (= official papers) 1,285 died (death reasons weren't noted). At least 56 were hanged, 14 shot dead.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

These is the plan as of 1944 of the smallest of all concentration camps

It was never realised.

That camp was not a 'death camp', but a concentration camp for Jehovah's Witnesses, political prisoners, Sinti and Romani people, Yeniche, homosexuals, Jews, prisoners of war and forced laborers from Poland, the Soviet Union (also prisoners of war), Czechoslovakia, France, the Netherlands and Belgium. Until 1941, the registration office in the district town certified the deaths. But then, the local village should register them. Since they couldn't afford an own office, the KZ got an own registration office. And the SS 'forgot' to register the deaths ...

The crematory (built 1941/2) as of 1945/6

Out of the 3,900 prisoners (from 1939 until 1945) at least (= official papers) 1,285 died (death reasons weren't noted). At least 56 were hanged, 14 shot dead.

Once again. How many times do I have to state it. I was ONLY addressing those who died from gassing claims. I said I was not considering those who died by gunshots, malnutrition, disease, maltreatment, ect. I was ONLY addressing those who were claimed to have been gassed and the number of those who were supposed to have been gassed. That is it. Had you once again actually checked what I had stated, you would have known this. Once again you don't care what I was testing or fact checking.

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@Krumple,

Your behaviour - what you call 'research' - Krumple, is very similar to that e.g. from the villagers (and generally many if not most Germans of that period), where the above mentioned KZ was situated.

"It smelled funny-sweet quite a lot of days, but we didn't bother since it came from the SS-camp" quite a few locals told me when I asked them about it.
It was not part of their community, so they "ignored it.

It's peculiar funny when they opposed, namely in 1944, when the SS tried to de-function their "Schützenfest". Only then they supported their local (Catholic) vicar in his resistance to the Nazis.

Sad.

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@Walter Hinteler,

You have no idea what you are even talking about because you don't even know what claims I made. You don't even know how I was talking. You don't even know anything that was discussed. You are purely working on emotion and care nothing about data. Typical of what I trying to point out about this herd tribal effect. People don't care about truth they just want to brand people as an enemy when they don't agree with them.

I couldn't care any less what you think of me because you have lost every bit of possible credit I could have given you. You are a reactionary and don't care about what is discussed.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

Had you once again actually checked what I had stated, you would have known this. Once again you don't care what I was testing or fact checking.

Well, I got very different impressions to yours from the plans in the Zentralbauleitung der Waffen SS und Polizei, Auschwitz O/S archive.

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@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

See here is the thing again. Witness testimony is not reliable.

It's a lot more reliable than the old pony you've been spouting.

Krumple wrote:

I used one layout which was crematorium 2 in Auschwitz as an example of how inefficiency it was to carry out gassing.

Now Krumple, the reason people have been picking out your errors in basic spelling and grammar, isn't just because it's funny. (Although that is a good reason, the escape goat debacle was pretty brilliant.) The main reason is because it's symptomatic of your lack of education overall. The above isn't a spelling mistake, it's a complete failure to appreciate how a sentence should be constructed. You clearly can't tell the difference between credible and non-credible sources of information. You lack the wherewithal, and that inability becomes more striking with each post.

You've done a fews sums, and come up to the conclusion that we've all been hoodwinked, except for some anti-Semitic websites and you. Just looking at that sentence should give you some idea of why everything you post should, at the very least, be treated with complete scepticism, or dismissed out of hand. Your workings may be very good, but they're based on flawed data. Parados has shown they should be multiplied by a factor of seven at the very least, and Raprap has shown proof of faster, more efficient incinerators.

Your response to people who are considerably smarter and better educated than you, is to call them morons and refuse to accept the evidence you're given. And throughout all this you try to play the victim card, because you're far too stupid and insensitive to realise that what you're saying is profoundly anti-Semitic.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

You are a reactionary ...

I've been called a lot. But that I am a reactionary is new. And somehow quite funny.

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@Walter Hinteler,

I always thought you modelled yourself on Metternich.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Krumple wrote:
Had you once again actually checked what I had stated, you would have known this. Once again you don't care what I was testing or fact checking.

Well, I got very different impressions to yours from the plans in the Zentralbauleitung der Waffen SS und Polizei, Auschwitz O/S archive.

Your impressions? So what were they? I wasn't using "my" impressions. I was using eye witness testimony of what room was used for what and how they were processed. I didn't make it up. I used their statements to construct how the building was used for gassing. I couldn't care any less what your impressions were/are.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Mmmh. That's why I'm a member of the Fabian Metternich Society Wink

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HOLOCAUST........ Fact or Fiction?

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