6
   

HOLOCAUST........ Fact or Fiction?

 
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 12:30 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Krumple, in my opinion, based on the above, you do have issues with Israelis, so it is hard to believe you are just doing the "numbers thing" like a statistician. And, your saying that you are only referring to the "agenda" of the "survivors" is still generalizing, since if the survivors were given a choice, many would have come to the U.S.A. But, you might know different, possibly having some uncanny ability to have interviewed the survivors, or accept everything you read.


I have already mentioned this overlap.

You want to think that I do and this is the only way you can support this idea. It is irrelevant. The two situations are separate. I do talk about how hypocritical the israelis are but you ignore that part. If anyone they should understand discrimination the most. Yet they do it anyways.

Are you just another one wanting to cover up the crimes committed by the israelis? By deflecting my numbers comment to be some kind of personal grudge? No sorry no such grudge exists. These are facts.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 12:35 pm
@parados,
Krumple doesn't know what he's talking about.

From Wiki (admission by the source, the Auschwitz commander).
Quote:
According to Rudolf Höß, commandant of Auschwitz, bunker 1 held 800 people, and bunker 2 held 1,200.[163] Once the chamber was full, the doors were screwed shut and solid pellets of Zyklon-B were dropped into the chambers through vents in the side walls, releasing toxic HCN, or hydrogen cyanide. Those inside died within 20 minutes; the speed of death depended on how close the inmate was standing to a gas vent, according to Höß, who estimated that about one third of the victims died immediately.[164] Joann Kremer, an SS doctor who oversaw the gassings, testified that: "Shouting and screaming of the victims could be heard through the opening and it was clear that they fought for their lives."[165] When they were removed, if the chamber had been very congested, as they often were, the victims were found half-squatting, their skin colored pink with red and green spots, some foaming at the mouth or bleeding from the ears.[164]


I saw both those bunkers during my visit to Auschwitz.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 12:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Krumple doesn't know what he's talking about.

From Wiki (admission by the source, the Auschwitz commander).
Quote:
According to Rudolf Höß, commandant of Auschwitz, bunker 1 held 800 people, and bunker 2 held 1,200.[163] Once the chamber was full, the doors were screwed shut and solid pellets of Zyklon-B were dropped into the chambers through vents in the side walls, releasing toxic HCN, or hydrogen cyanide. Those inside died within 20 minutes; the speed of death depended on how close the inmate was standing to a gas vent, according to Höß, who estimated that about one third of the victims died immediately.[164] Joann Kremer, an SS doctor who oversaw the gassings, testified that: "Shouting and screaming of the victims could be heard through the opening and it was clear that they fought for their lives."[165] When they were removed, if the chamber had been very congested, as they often were, the victims were found half-squatting, their skin colored pink with red and green spots, some foaming at the mouth or bleeding from the ears.[164]


I saw both those bunkers during my visit to Auschwitz.


It's funny because he actually thinks he is refuting me but he is only supporting my claims. 2000 people killed per gassing. I totally leave out the amount of time it requires to die and how much time would be required to ventilate the gas from the rooms before the bodies could be drug out and burned. I used the best case scenario of how much time is consumed but when you factor in how long it takes for them to die it only lengthens the required time necessary to pull off the amount of numbers that are claimed.

Why he thinks he is refuting me only shows his stupidity.
Harper
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Krumple doesn't know what he's talking about.


That is the understatement of the year.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:04 pm
@Harper,
Harper wrote:
Yes I know, being that I am a researcher. Some sources are more credible than others.


So funny that you consider yourself a researcher but didn't even take 30 seconds to consider why I posted that link. You just immediately assumed that was my source for my answers. It was a source for data collecting on the accepted claims that I was refuting. But since you are such a great researcher you already knew, I mean assumed right?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:18 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
One of the most quoted comes from Elie Weisel who wrote several books on the holocaust. He claims that 6 million were gassed. This is the source where most people get the 6 million figure from

Please provide that quote. I doubt you can find one. Once again you confuse 2 different ideas and make a claim that wasn't made.

Quote:

It doesn't matter which building. Most of them were designed either identically to the one I used in the example or similar.

Bullshit. Even simple research shows nothing of the sort.
The plans for the buildings not only look different the crematoria are different in construction.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/auconstruct.html

Quote:

This question is loaded. Because the crematories were not all placed in such an arrangement to corresponding to where tracks were located or how prisoners were brought in. This means that in some cases they would be visible and in other cases they would not be visible. So your question is loaded
My question isn't loaded. It was your statement that you have to defend that was loaded. Now you want to accuse me when it was your dishonest statement that is at question. You made several assumptions in your statement that one need only point out one false assumption and your conclusion falls apart. Not only does your conclusion fall apart, it is indefensible so you resort to an ad hominum by accusing me of a loaded question when all I did was point out the errors in your assumptions.

Quote:

These numbers are exaggerated in favor of the claims yet they still fail. If I were to actually take down specifics and more accurate assessment the conclusion will be even more in favor of my claims. Not the other way around.
If that is the case then do it and prove me wrong. Until then your claims of "scholarship" on your part are nothing but empty assertions that aren't supported by any facts.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:20 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:


Fine ignore me. But no you moron. I like how I post one video link and you think I conducted my research on youtube. You are an idiot.

you posed one video link as an answer to his question.
1. You are an idiot that used youtube for research and Harper is correct to ignore you
2. You didn't understand the question.
3. You did understand the question and are avoiding answering it.


You clearly didn't give a valid answer of how you did your research or the criteria you used.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:22 pm
@Harper,
According to Krumple, he's more knowledgeable about Auschwitz and the gas chambers than the commandant of the base.

Trying to discuss anything with this idiot is a waste of time and effort.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:25 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
The plans for the buildings not only look different the crematoria are different in construction.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/auconstruct.html


Are you trolling because the image I used for my explanation on how the prisoners were processed came from that same site. I have read the entire thing so what you are trying to refute here is nonsense. Silly. Might as well not even bother responding to you because it just seems like trolling.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:25 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:

It's funny because he actually thinks he is refuting me but he is only supporting my claims. 2000 people killed per gassing

No he doesn't support you since bunker 1 and bunker 2 were NOT what you based your statement on. You provided a drawing of ONE building and claimed that 2000 people were killed in ONE room.
Let me quote you..
Quote:

9. This room is considered to be the "gas" chamber even though on all of the german design documents it is referred to as the delousing chamber.

This is where all the clothing confiscated from room 8 would end up as claims by the germans. However the other claims are that it was the gas chamber.

2000 people at a time were claimed to have been crammed into room 9.

http://able2know.org/topic/195805-9#post-5077461

No one but YOU would claim that one room is really 2 rooms and you always mentioned 2 rooms when you clearly were talking about ONE room.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:26 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
You clearly didn't give a valid answer of how you did your research or the criteria you used.


Now I know you are trolling but I gave specifics on how I went about working out the data. Either that or you are a complete moron too.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:28 pm
@Krumple,
Then you should be able to tell us how Crematoria IV looks nothing like your picture and uses a double four muffler furnace instead of the 3 muffler furnace in your picture.
Did you do your calculations for the four muffler or the three muffler furnace? What is the difference between the 2?
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:29 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quote:

It's funny because he actually thinks he is refuting me but he is only supporting my claims. 2000 people killed per gassing

No he doesn't support you since bunker 1 and bunker 2 were NOT what you based your statement on. You provided a drawing of ONE building and claimed that 2000 people were killed in ONE room.
Let me quote you..
Quote:

9. This room is considered to be the "gas" chamber even though on all of the german design documents it is referred to as the delousing chamber.

This is where all the clothing confiscated from room 8 would end up as claims by the germans. However the other claims are that it was the gas chamber.

2000 people at a time were claimed to have been crammed into room 9.

http://able2know.org/topic/195805-9#post-5077461

No one but YOU would claim that one room is really 2 rooms and you always mentioned 2 rooms when you clearly were talking about ONE room.


You are such a moron. The bunkers are not even the crematorium. They are completely two different buildings. Crematorium 2 is the one I referenced. The bunkers are different complexes on the I site.

The claim is that the bunkers were first used as execution chambers but since they didn't handle the capacity that they wanted they designed and built the crematoriums. Which I have extensively mentioned and pointed out that if the crematoriums were built in response to growing demand on how to exterminate more at a time then you would think the designs of the crematoriums would reflect that demand. They don't.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:29 pm
@parados,
Actually, they are two separate bunkers.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:30 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:

Now I know you are trolling but I gave specifics on how I went about working out the data.

No, you didn't give specifics. If you had, we wouldn't be having this conversation because the specifics of which furnace and how one room is now 2 rooms wouldn't be in question.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:33 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
No, you didn't give specifics. If you had, we wouldn't be having this conversation because the specifics of which furnace and how one room is now 2 rooms wouldn't be in question.


You are the ONLY person talking about two rooms. You have no clue what you are talking about. You think the bunkers are referring to the crematorium 2 building, which they are separate complexes. How dense do you want to be on this issue?
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
So they couldn't possibly be the same room in one building?

That's a surprise. I thought K said it was one room. In fact, I'm sure I just quoted him on that. But now s/he is denying that.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:39 pm
@Krumple,
Obviously, I am not the one that is dense since you used ONE room to do all your calculations and then made a declaration based on that ONE room. All the time you ignored the other rooms and said you had exaggerated because you used ONE room. (instead of the 4 that were actually there.)

Quote:
The twin pairs of gas chambers were numbered II and III, and IV and V. The first opened on March 31, 1943, the last on April 4, 1943. The total area of the gas chambers was 2,255 square meters; the capacity of these crematoria was 4,420 people. Those selected to die were undressed in the undressing room and then pushed into the gas chambers. It took about 20 minutes for all the people to death. In II and III, the killings took place in underground rooms, and the corpses were carried to the five ovens by an electrically operated lift.

Wow... Your research must have missed that there were 4 rooms. It also must have missed that total number between the 4 rooms. Then your research missed the lift that rather puts a crimp in your carrying bodies through narrow hallways and up stairs argument.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:40 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

So they couldn't possibly be the same room in one building?

That's a surprise. I thought K said it was one room. In fact, I'm sure I just quoted him on that. But now s/he is denying that.


I was not referring to the bunkers. I was only examining crematorium number 2.There were two other crematoriums that were mirrored in design of each other. The bunkers were on a separate site which were used prior to the construction of the crematoriums. These so called extermination bunkers were later used as bunkers after the crematoriums were finished.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:41 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
Then your research missed the lift that rather puts a crimp in your carrying bodies through narrow hallways and up stairs argument.


Now I am certain you are a troll. I mentioned the lift specifically. I know 100% you did not even bother to read what I had written.
0 Replies
 
 

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