6
   

HOLOCAUST........ Fact or Fiction?

 
 
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 01:44 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
Then your research missed the lift that rather puts a crimp in your carrying bodies through narrow hallways and up stairs argument.


Krumple wrote:
Once the gas was ventilated and the prisoners were dead the bodies had to be removed from room 9 by going back into room 5 and use the elevator 6.

6. The lift elevator is a small cramped location that wouldn't hold very many bodies at a time. But it is the only way to get into the crematory room 1.

2000 bodies had to be removed from room 9 and into room 5 and then up the lift 6. All of this would have been done by hand. I doubt bodies were carried by one worker. It would probably require two workers per body to carry them. With the cramped space I doubt there were more than two workers but that could be argued.


Oh look no mention of a lift anywhere!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 03:15 pm
@parados,
That's true about the underground gas chambers that were not part of bunker 1 and bunker 2. Those underground gas chambers no longer exists, but they had a model of it on the tour.

I tried to find my pictures of bunker 1 and 2, and the model of the underground gas chamber, but could not locate them. I'll continue to look for them, and post those pictures if and when I find them.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  3  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 03:52 pm
Are you guys still arguing with this idiot?
Nothing anyone says will convince him that the holocaust was real. I have been to several of the concentration camps, Auschwitz, Daccau, and Buchenwald. I have also talked with survivors, been to Holocaust museums in 2 different countries, and read some of the US Army reports of finding the camps.

Anyone that refuses to accept that it happened is being willfully ignorant and nothing anti e says will convince them.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 06:30 pm
@mysteryman,
There are still survivors of the event, there is so much forensic evidence availble (Go to any towns Holocaust Museum and just look at the artifacts and read the testimonies). Many of the camps have been preserved as museums to the acts of evil that people are capable of commiting . Themasters of the several dozens of camps have always admitted to what they did, they just tried to justify it in light of the fuerhers worldview. There are countless films like what set hd posted and these are done by scores of different reporters and investigators at different times with differeing missions. What evidence negates all that?

To deny all that evidence and hint that it was all "possibly faked" is something I would expect a cowardly Skinhead to be preaching.
Like the BAttle of Britain never happened either

The individual who posted this thread, has, IMO lost ANY credibility for taking part in any discussionon A2K. He should find some NAzi network where Im sure hed be welcomed by all the other maggots who think as he.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2012 07:31 pm
@Krumple,
Oh look Krumple did mention a lift in his copy and paste.

But his/her math still sucks
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 08:40 am
I still do not understand Krumple's motivations for his concerns about numbers? In another thread Krumple does talk of what Israel is doing to the Palestineans. Perhaps, Krumple should realize that by talking about the numbers, he just might be teaching Israel that the world does not care about humane treatment of other humans, until some "threshold" is reached? That could be a bad lesson to teach. In my opinion, Krumple should re-access the focus of the postings made. Six thousand or six million does not change the inhumanity of an atrocity, just how large an atrocity is. Krumple might be inadvertently teaching a very wrong viewpoint, relative to atrocities?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 12:14 pm
@Foofie,
Numbers to certain extent are meaningless because "history repeats itself." There's no lesson to be learned from "numbers." Most cultures have been guilty of mass killings at one time or another. Humans engage in wars and always will. Many tyrannical leaders have also been responsible for the "killings" of their own citizens - in the millions.

What have humans learned? Nothing.
0 Replies
 
Harper
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 04:00 pm

Parados said:
Quote:
you posted one video link as an answer to her question.
1. You are an idiot that used youtube for research and Harper is correct to ignore you
2. You didn't understand the question.
3. You did understand the question and are avoiding answering it.


You clearly didn't give a valid answer of how you did your research or the criteria you used.



I find it amusing that this guy(?) is calling me--a history major at Cal Berkeley, a future PhD candidate and someone who is currently studying genocide--an idiot. Thanks for the support, parados.

I know by responding I am keeping the thread alive but I think the best thing to do is just let this thread die. This garbage does not deserve serious discussion.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 04:19 pm
@Harper,
I believe that, upon examination, you will find that Parados' reply was to Krumple, not you. I don't see where he called anybody but Krumple an idiot.

Slow down, Harper, slow down.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 06:35 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Six thousand or six million does not change the inhumanity of an atrocity, just how large an atrocity is. Krumple might be inadvertently teaching a very wrong viewpoint, relative to atrocities?


Right, which I never claimed did not take place. This aspect that I am a holocaust denier because I challenge the numbers is part of why I am talking about it. I am concerned with this mindset to immediately demonize a person who would question history. This is the point. It proves that people build up strawmen like responding with things like, "I've been there and I spoke to survivors." Yeah so what? All of that doesn't deal with the real numbers. These people pretend as if I am saying the camps didn't exist or that there weren't deaths and everything was rainbows and butterflies.

I am not challenging the buildings. I am not challenging the inhumane treatment of the prisoners. I am challenging the numbers. So if you want to talk about interviews with soldiers and interviews with survivors and that you visited the museums and saw the camp first hand, it is all meaningless to me because that is NOT what I am addressing.

I am talking about this mentality of people to brand people who question the status quo. Any time anything is challenged if it goes against the status quo people attack the person as if they were actually playing a part in the whole activity being questioned. It is absurd and silly. This mindset is poison on humanity.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 06:55 pm
@Krumple,
fortunately for folks like you, the NAzis kept impeccable records and the number of six million actually relates to the number of Jews that were killed in th ghettos and those that were killed in camps as an inclusive series of atrocities.




.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 07:04 pm
@farmerman,
Now that you mention it, I remember seeing maps that shows where the prisoners came to Auschwitz from - all over Europe. I'm pretty sure the Germans kept very good records of those transfers, and where each prisoner came from because they showed numbers.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 07:17 pm
@Harper,
Harper wrote:
You clearly didn't give a valid answer of how you did your research or the criteria you used.


Na actually I did, but you didn't take the time to research if I had or not.

Harper wrote:

I find it amusing that this guy(?) is calling me--a history major at Cal Berkeley, a future PhD candidate and someone who is currently studying genocide--an idiot.


Oh how dare she call you an idiot? Just because you can memorize a bunch of dates, people or places doesn't mean you know anything. Anyone can memorize a bunch of dates and times or places. It is meaningless unless you can apply what you have memorized in a meaningful way. Any savant can memorize the entire phone book of phone numbers but ask them to call one of those numbers and have a conversation about how a phone book is designed and they can't do it. They probably couldn't even dial the phone number to start with.

Harper wrote:

I know by responding I am keeping the thread alive but I think the best thing to do is just let this thread die. This garbage does not deserve serious discussion.


See now I know you are full of **** about your supposed phd nonsense. You didn't even bother to see what I was addressing. You just like everyone else here who is afraid of investigating history want to brand it as if it were some anti-holocaust statement. It's not and never has been.

That is why you are a moron.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 07:20 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

fortunately for folks like you, the NAzis kept impeccable records and the number of six million actually relates to the number of Jews that were killed in th ghettos and those that were killed in camps as an inclusive series of atrocities.


Yep and had you actually taken the time to read what I had written you would have seen that I addressed this. You are just like the typical immediately jumping to conclusions on a position which I do not hold. In other words building up a strawman about me that isn't even the case. Why not go back and actually read what was written?
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 07:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Now that you mention it, I remember seeing maps that shows where the prisoners came to Auschwitz from - all over Europe. I'm pretty sure the Germans kept very good records of those transfers, and where each prisoner came from because they showed numbers.


Saying they kept accurate records is one thing. Present them to show that my math is incorrect is another. So if these so called accurate records of where they came from and where they were sent and in which manner they died would help get to the truth. So where are they?

Do they show how many were actually gassed? Or is it assumed they were gassed by the reader?

Talking about like you had seen at one time some data and therefore it is true is silly.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 07:32 pm
@Krumple,
Not all the records will prove one thing or another; they stand alone as evidence of where people were transferred from.

Get it through your thick skull that not all the information being provided is to answer your personal interests. To remind you, the title of this thread is "HOLOCAUST......Fact or Fiction." There are other people engaged in this discussion that are included in the title of this thread.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 07:37 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Get it through your thick skull that not all the information being provided is to answer your personal interests.


This is silly because the data that I have collected comes from many sources so why would I think that? I understand that you need several sources to link together data.

cicerone imposter wrote:

To remind you, the title of this thread is "HOLOCAUST......Fact or Fiction." There are other people engaged in this discussion that are included in the title of this thread.


Just another silly response that is meaningless. I never said no one else could get involved and so far no one has been. It has been me presenting a case and a dozen or so screaming that I am a bigot or antisemitic. Not a single person has directly addressed the question I posed. Every single one has been a response that I am anti-holocaust which I am not.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 07:39 pm
@Krumple,
Not silly at all! You seem to think this thread belongs to you exclusively. It doesn't. This is public domain where information is exchanged.

The information of the map I mentioned earlier is also displayed on Wiki.
http://i49.tinypic.com/34fcen4.jpg

As a matter of fact, the same link where the map was found has other information. Much of the extermination information was provided by the base commandant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_concentration_camp
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 07:56 pm
@cicerone imposter,
From the Wiki article.
Quote:
The camp's first commandant, Rudolf Höss, testified after the war at the Nuremberg Trials that up to three million people had died there (2.5 million gassed, and 500,000 from disease and starvation),[3] a figure since revised to 1.3 million, around 90 percent of them Jewish.[4][5] Others deported to Auschwitz included 150,000 Poles, 23,000 Roma and Sinti, 15,000 Soviet prisoners of war, some 400 Jehovah's Witnesses and tens of thousands of people of diverse nationalities.[6][7] Those not killed in the gas chambers died of starvation, forced labor, infectious disease, individual executions, and medical experiments.[8]
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 07:59 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
and read some of the US Army reports of finding the camps.


And of course they never lie, do they, MM?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, EVERYONE! - Discussion by OmSigDAVID
WIND AND WATER - Discussion by Setanta
Who ordered the construction of the Berlin Wall? - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
True version of Vlad Dracula, 15'th century - Discussion by gungasnake
ONE SMALL STEP . . . - Discussion by Setanta
History of Gun Control - Discussion by gungasnake
Where did our notion of a 'scholar' come from? - Discussion by TuringEquivalent
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.07 seconds on 12/23/2024 at 09:50:26