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Man's life Over, Cops Decide He Watched Child Porn in First Class

 
 
firefly
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 08:53 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
But it was more like "you might one day run into this and if you do this is what you do", it was not as it is today "evil people are everywhere! WATCH OUT!"

Given that your own young daughters were molested by the pedophile brother of your baby sitter, and they did not report this to you immediately, nor did they apparently know what to do to resist, perhaps you should have taught them, "evil people are everywhere! WATCH OUT!".

It is rather sad that, even though your own children were subjected to this experience, you still cannot see the need to both educate and protect children as much as possible. It is less a matter that "evil people are everywhere" and more a matter of they could be anywhere, and most parents are realistic about this and, as much as possible, insure their children's safety.

And both you and BillRM fail to realize that most victims of sexual abuse are female, and, consequently, female children generally tend to receive more warnings from parents regarding safety because there is an appropriate need to do this, although responsible parents instruct male children as well.

There have always been pedophiles around, and the issues of both warning children, and trying to protect them are nothing new. The only difference now is more media coverage when pedophiles are arrested, so we are more often reminded of the problem.

Normal men, unlike you and BillRM, would be more concerned with protecting children from harm, and less concerned with the issue of being regarded with suspicion because you are male. Stupid BillRM, for instance, should have been glad that others were concerned about his behavior with children in the park when he engaged them with kittens--those people were alert to the possibility that children might be harmed, because what he was doing is a classic pedophile ploy, and they were trying to protect the children. That's responsible adult behavior, but you and BillRM are too self-involved to recognize that.






BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 09:43 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Normal men, unlike you and BillRM, would be more concerned with protecting children from harm, and less concerned with the issue of being regarded with suspicion because you are male. Stupid BillRM, for instance, should have been glad that others were concerned about his behavior with children in the park when he engaged them with kittens--those people were alert to the possibility that children might be harmed, because what he was doing is a classic pedophile ploy, and they were trying to protect the children. That's responsible adult behavior, but you and BillRM are too self-involved to recognize that.


Yes I can see a real pedophile acting in so open a manner and thinking that somehow he could drag a child out of the park.

Lot of ways to get a hold of a child that is likely to work far far better then having a cat carrier setting on a table in the center of the park in open view of a hundred or more people.

Very classic method for a pedophile only in the imagination of people like Firefly however a real pedophile would likely had gotten friendly with the parents and after a time offer to be a soccer coach or try to form a relationship with a single mother or.........................

It would however be nice if pedophiles are as dumb as the Fireflies of the world think they happen to be.

Sorry it is seldom to never that a child abuser is a stranger in a park instead of someone who had work at gaining the trust of the parents in one way or another over time.

And yes it is annoying and sad that someone who is trying to find homes for kittens in a very very open manner is view with such suspicion base on only the fact that the person doing so is a male.

In a way it like knowing how a black person feel when store security follow him or her around on the idea that a black person is likely to be in the store to shoplift.


BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 10:22 am
@firefly,
You know Firefly being lucky enough to had been born a white middle class male I had never been on the wrong end of profiling and baseless suspicions before due to my race or my economic status or for any other reason and I frankly find it amazing that all males are now look on as likely pedophiles if they interact with children in anyway even in the middle of a park in front of a hundred or more other adults.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 10:24 am
@BillRM,
It's not all males, it's nonces like you.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 11:15 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Given that your own young daughters were molested by the pedophile brother of your baby sitter, and they did not report this to you immediately, nor did they apparently know what to do to resist, perhaps you should have taught them, "evil people are everywhere! WATCH OUT!".


I am very pleased with how they reacted as I have said, and they think that I handled the before and after well, which is good enough for me. It was going to university that convinced them, living with peers who have been raised in fear and helicopter parenting made them keenly aware of how lucky they are to have been brought up differently.

Quote:
It is rather sad that, even though your own children were subjected to this experience, you still cannot see the need to both educate and protect children as much as possible. It is less a matter that "evil people are everywhere" and more a matter of they could be anywhere, and most parents are realistic about this and, as much as possible, insure their children's safety.


Of all of the thousands of males they have interacted with over their lifetime only one ever sexually abused them, and they did something about it and then got counselling to help them heal. Sexual abuse is not a death sentence and abuse is rare. The ability to keep things in perspective, the ability to prioritize, is important in living a good life. Sadly not a lot of people can do it anymore.
firefly
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 01:11 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Sorry it is seldom to never that a child abuser is a stranger in a park instead of someone who had work at gaining the trust of the parents

No, it's not seldom at all. Again, you are too concrete to understand that, because stranger abuse might be less common than abuse by someone known to the child, does not at all mean it's rare--and it's often easier for the child to avert the abuse by a stranger, to prevent it by running away, but that doesn't mean the pedophiles aren't out there trying.
Quote:
Yes I can see a real pedophile acting in so open a manner and thinking that somehow he could drag a child out of the park.

They don't drag children, they lure them--with things like kittens, or puppies, or requests for help from the child, anything that will get the child to go with them.

Almost every female I know, or have ever known, was approached in some way, or followed, at least once, by a pedophile during her childhood, and, because they had been appropriately warned, their red flags went up, they ran away, or got out of the situation--and they all remember these incidents. It's not something that colors their lives, or significantly affects them, particularly if it was just an approach, but they remember the incident, and it affects their concern for their own children when they become parents. You've never been a parent and you don't seem able to understand that sort of parental concern and desire to protect children.
Quote:
And yes it is annoying and sad that someone who is trying to find homes for kittens in a very very open manner is view with such suspicion base on only the fact that the person doing so is a male.

You were acting in a manner that raised suspicions and concerns. It's not "annoying and sad" that your behavior made other people uncomfortable. If you had half a brain, you'd be glad they were alert and concerned about protecting the children. Pedophiles are overwhelmingly male--that's a fact. Not all men are pedophiles, but a man alone in a park, with kittens, interacting with children, doesn't look right to a great many people. And you should be happy that the adults who saw you acted responsibly, given the way your actions were making them feel.



hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 01:20 pm
@firefly,
I have almost been hit by a bus but that does not mean that I expect to be almost hit by a bus every time I cross the road...or that I am encouraged to hold this delusional view of reality. When it comes to sexual matters in America perspective is missing, because we are a deeply erotically dysfuncional people.

Our fetish about protecting the children as we completely **** them over for life with our economic and political irresponsibility does not help matters...we are raising several generations of Americans who are completely unprepared for the life that awaits them.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 01:25 pm
@hawkeye10,
You're dodging the main issue, which is that you know damn well pedophiles exist--one of them molested your two daughters.

You know, therefore, that sexual abuse can happen to a child almost anywhere, and that's why it's important to educate children about possible dangers, and to do whatever is necessary to keep pedophiles away from children whenever we can.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 01:32 pm
@firefly,
Wrong.....responsible people are not single issue focused, we keep all priorities in mind as we decide what to do. We also run cost/benefit analysis. Your thinking on this issue is simple minded and childish. We invest far too much into the SAFETY! of the children, and we do a poor job of raising children to boot.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 01:47 pm
@hawkeye10,
You've not invested enough.
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 02:46 pm
@hawkeye10,
Actually, I agree with what I think Hawkeye is saying.

Not withstanding, with all due respect, we are all "human beings" here and some parents... Having something as aweful as that occuring to your own children, doesn't need to be thrashed to death, when one person openly shared something of his past, about his children.

That, whilst children should be educated and I don't disagree, there is only so far that we can go to protect them.. A babysitter's brother would never, ever, have come into thought and I am sure that whilst "children" are aware of such people in this World, anything can happen at any time, we can not wrap them in cotton wool, to protect them from evil... We would create more problems for them when the exit our lives into the real world.

I believe what Hawkeye is saying "apart from politics" is that teaching them to be strong, coping skills and life goes on, don't let it mess with you for the rest of your life, is a great thing also to teach children.. So many take something aweful, dwell on it, cut themselves, go into depression, and no amount of councelling gets them out of it. A parent teaching the toughs of life and how to deal with pain, and not let it manifest i commend.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 02:50 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Almost every female I know, or have ever known, was approached in some way, or followed, at least once, by a pedophile during her childhood, and, because they had been appropriately warned, their red flags went up, they ran away, or got out of the situation--and they all remember these incidents. It's not something that colors their lives, or significantly


Strange as I been doing a google search looking for reported cases of pedophiles using kittens or puppies to lure children in public parks and have been coming up with nothing to date.

Sorry dear every study I had read it is of men who pretend to be interest in the mother or a man who get himself into a position of trust with children and their parents such as priest or sport coach.

That is of the cases where it not someone already a member of the family before a child had even been born.

Maybe you could give links showing the real danger of pedophiles in public parks with animals.

As it look now you are giving false information out about where the overwhelming danger of sexual abused come from.


http://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/nsor/som_mythsandfacts.htm

Myth: Child molesters spontaneously attack when they see a vulnerable potential victim.

Fact: Many child molesters and pedophiles spend years positioning themselves into a place of authority and trust within the community, and can spend a long time "grooming" one child.Pedophiles and child molesters behave in ways to gain a parent's trust, often ingratiating themselves with the victim's family or guardian. They often select their potential victims


FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 02:59 pm
@BillRM,
A "Serial" Molester, pedophile, is manipulative and spends the time to not be noticed, to be-friend family, towns... Any "serial" anything does that, rapists, murders, thiefs.

But they had to start somewhere yes? And, in that, your Myth is not a Myth...as they prey on "anything" at the beginning.

BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 03:01 pm
@firefly,
This is how crazy we are getting..................................

BadBoyMark11-22-2006, 06:25 PM
Woman Ticketed For Sitting On Park Bench Without Kids
NEW YORK
The Rivington Playground on Manhattan's East Side has a small sign at the entrance that says adults are prohibitedunless they are accompanied by a child.

Sandra Catena, 47, said she didn't see the sign when she sat down to wait for an arts festival to start.

Two police officers asked her if she was with a child. When she said no, they gave her a ticket that could bring a $1,000 fine and 90 days in jail.

The city parks department said the rule is designed to keep pedophiles out of city parks, but a parks spokesman told the Daily News that the department hoped police would use some common sense when enforcing the rule.
Issue: Whether the city "rule" that criminally penalizes adults for entering a public park when unaccompanied by a child is unconstitutional on its face and/or as applied to Sandra Catena? :wink:
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 03:10 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
No, it's not seldom at all. Again, you are too concrete to understand that, because stranger abuse might be less common than abuse by someone known to the child, does not at all mean it's rare--and it's often easier for the child to avert the abuse by a stranger, to prevent it by running away, but that doesn't mean the pedophiles aren't out there trying.

The only part I agree with is that it would almost be impossible for someone surrounded with hundred of other adults to successfully molested a child in a public park.


Acquaintance perpetrators are the most common abusers, constituting approximately 70-90% of all reported perpetrators.
- Finkelhor, D. 1994

• 89% of child sexual assault cases involve persons known to the child, such as a caretaker or family acquaintance.
- Diana Russell Survey, 1978

• 29% of child sexual abuse offenders are relatives, 60% are acquaintances, and only 11% are strangers.
- Diana Russell, The Secret Trauma, NY:Basic Books, 1986

• For the vast majority of child victimizers in State prison, the victim was someone they knew before the crime. 1/3 had committed their crime against their own child, about 1/2 had a relationship with the victim as a friend, acquaintance, or relative other than offspring, about 1 in 7 reported the victim to have been a stranger to them.
- BJS Survey of State Prison Inmates, 1991

• 3/4 of the violent victimizations of children took place in either the victim's home or the offenders home.
- BJS Survey of State Prison Inmates, 1991

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 03:15 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
And, in that, your Myth is not a Myth...as they prey on "anything" at the beginning.


Once more logic and common sense would indicate that anyone who wish to prey on a child would do so within the family or at least someone they know and have some form of a relationship with.

A child that is unknown to the person and who is surrounded by hundreds of adults in the middle of a public park seems off hand the last target anyone would picked and all the studies I had seen indicate that logic and common sense is correct.

firefly
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 03:19 pm
@BillRM,
You seem disconnected from the social reality of the real world--as though you have no friends, never have contact with real people. You only know what you can "Google", and your attempts to find information that way, seem extremely limited. All responsible parents warn their children about strangers who might try to lure them.
A pedophile might attempt to lure the child from a public place, such as a park, so he can take the child somewhere to molest them.
Quote:
Common Lures of Child Abductors

Since there is no way to tell if a person is good or bad on sight, kids should be taught to avoid any stranger who tries to engage them. Child abductors and pedophiles are notoriously charming and personable to kids. The sad fact is, kids trust "nice" adults. So make sure your kids know that "niceness" may be a disguise and remind them to tell a trusted adult anytime they are approached by a stranger.

Common Lures Used by Abductors

Assistance Lure: A man seeks help to find a lost dog, or a motorist asks for directions. These lures work because kids naturally want to be helpful, but kids should know that adult strangers have no right to ask them for this kind of help. Teach kids that when it comes to strangers, they cannot be helpful and safe at the same time! If kids are approached by a car, they should turn and run the opposite direction as fast as they can--without stopping, talking, explaining, or making eye contact with the driver.

Emergency Lure: This is meant to confuse and worry the child. Someone may tell the child, "Your mom had a car accident and I'm here to take you to the hospital." Or a driver may claim to have the child's father on a cell phone to lure the child to the car. The adult could trick the child by saying he/she is a new neighbor or works for the child's school. So remind your kids that if they don't know the person's name or recognize their face, this is a stranger! And they should never go with a stranger or walk over to a stranger's car. Another options is to establish a "family code word". It should be a word that is easy for your child to remember and keep secret. Explain to your child that only adults responsible for them will know this code word (parents, siblings, grandparents, etc) and to never go anywhere with any stranger that doesn't know the code word.

Bribery Lure: It's an old trick, but it still works. A stranger offers children money, candy, video games, or something else appealing to entice them. Teach your children this is bribery, not generosity, and if they go close enough to take gifts from a stranger, they are close enough for the stranger to take them!

Animal Lure: It's inevitable that if someone shows up with a puppy or kitten, kids will gather. Many abductors use animals to lure kids to them or their cars. Remind your kids never to go with any stranger either on foot or in a car, no matter how much they want to pet the animal!
http://www.kltv.com/story/2414388/common-lures-of-child-abductors

The fact remains that those people who viewed your behavior in the park with children had a right to feel uncomfortable about what you doing and they acted responsibly. If you can't understand that, you shouldn't be commenting on the topic, and it's pointless to continue explaining it to you.

FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 03:22 pm
@BillRM,
I am talking general of the situation at hand..

I wasn't aware as it's early in the morning, until now that actually what you are doing is defending yourself over your own situation at hand.

PS: I think firefly just squashed your logic as well ...
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 03:34 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You seem disconnected from the social reality of the real world--as though you have no friends, never have contact with real people. You only know what you can "Google", and your attempts to find information that way, seem extremely limited. All responsible parents warn their children about strangers who might try to lure them.
A pedophile might attempt to lure the child from a public place, such as a park, so he can take the child somewhere to molest them.


Hmm so studies and facts should be disregards as when it does not fit your fear of all men.

In any case I can see taking a child with one hand and my cat carrier in the other hoping no one who know the child does not pounce on me along with half of the rest of the park adults and beat the living **** out of me.

I would off hand give the chance of getting away with such a crime as to be near zero.

T
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2012 03:40 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
PS: I think firefly just squashed your logic as well ...


I however do not share such an opinion and all the studies seems to all back up the fact that the risk of a stranger harming a child in a park is a very very tiny percent of all children who are harm in that manner.

It is far more likely that the child will be hit by lighting while in the park then taken by a stranger.

A parent need to worry far more about family and family friends and children care givers then strangers in the park.
 

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