17
   

Man's life Over, Cops Decide He Watched Child Porn in First Class

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 10:53 am
Here is part of the fight that is still ongoing in the courts over the minimum Federal guide lines and it would seem only the SC can settle the matter as the circuit courts are disagreeing.

http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/federal_sentencing_guidelines/

Fifth Circuit, taking issue with Second Circuit's work in Dorvee, affirms 220-month sentence for child porn downloading

The Fifth Circuit has a lengthy new opinion in discussing federal child porn sentencing in US v. Miller, No. 10-50500 (5th Cir. Dec. 13, 2011) (available here). Here is how the opinion starts, along with some snippets from what is an extended substantive discussion of the federal child porn guidelines:

Aubrey Miller pled guilty to one count of transportation of child pornography in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2252(a)(1). The district court sentenced Miller to 220 months of imprisonment (18 years and 4 months), a term within the advisory Guidelines range and less than the statutory maximum of 240 months of imprisonment. The district court also imposed a twenty-five-year term of supervised release. Miller appeals his sentence and elements of his supervised release. We affirm....

The Second Circuit discussed at considerable length in Dorvee the history of the sentencing Guidelines that apply to child pornography offenses and the role of Congress in that history. The Second Circuit surveyed writings that have expressed disapproval of these Guidelines and congressional actions regarding them. That court was highly critical of the child pornography Guidelines, concluding that “[a]n ordinary first-time offender is therefore likely to qualify for a sentence of at least 168 to 210 months, rapidly approaching the statutory maximum, based solely on sentencing enhancements that are all but inherent to the crime of conviction.” The Second Circuit asserted that “adherence to the Guidelines results in virtually no distinction between the sentences for defendants like Dorvee, and the sentences for the most dangerous offenders who, for example, distribute child pornography for pecuniary gain and who fall in higher criminal history categories.” That court declared, “[t]his result is fundamentally incompatible with § 3553(a).”...

With great respect, we do not agree with our sister court’s reasoning. Our circuit has not followed the course that the Second Circuit has charted with respect to sentencing Guidelines that are not based on empirical data. Empirically based or not, the Guidelines remain the Guidelines. It is for the Commission to alter or amend them. The Supreme Court made clear in Kimbrough v. United States that “[a] district judge must include the Guidelines range in the array of factors warranting consideration,” even if the Commission did not use an empirical approach in developing sentences for the particular offense. Accordingly, we will not reject a Guidelines provision as “unreasonable” or “irrational” simply because it is not based on empirical data and even if it leads to some disparities in sentencing. The advisory Guidelines sentencing range remains a factor for district courts to consider in arriving upon a sentence....

In the present case, the district court expressly considered and rejected reasoning similar to that in Dorvee to the effect that those who “merely” possess or transport child pornography should not receive the same or more severe sentences than those who have actual sexual contact with a child.... The district court considered the policies underpinning the child pornography Guidelines. It concluded that the sentence imposed, 220 months of imprisonment, was not greater than necessary to accomplish the purposes set forth in 18 U.S.C. § 3553.

Miller contends that punishment for his offense should have been mitigated by his personal characteristics and history, including his difficult childhood, his service in the Navy (prior to his other-than-honorable discharge), and the empathy for child pornography victims and remorse he attained after he was raped in prison. The district court considered each of these factors. Miller’s disagreement is with the weight that the court gave to each. The district court did not fail to give sufficient weight to Miller’s characteristics and history.

Some related posts on related rulings from other circuits:

•Major reasonableness ruling from Second Circuit in child porn downloading case
•Split Third Circuit affirms way below-guideline sentence in major(?) child porn ruling
•Seventh Circuit affirms 210-month prison sentence for child porn dowloader/purveyor
•Multi-opinion Ninth Circuit ruling on federal child porn sentencing
December 14, 2011 in Booker in the Circuits, Federal Sentencing Guidelines, Sex Offender Sentencing, Who Sentences? | Permalink | Comments (8) | TrackBack

Quote:
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 10:56 am
@BillRM,
You keep spouting about the federal guidelines, but you ignore the fact that they are only guidelines. Judges are free to impose whatever sentence they believe will fit the crime. But you continue to write as though anyone convicted in federal court of viewing/possessing child porn must receive a 5 year sentence. The post just a few above this one quite nicely shows you that you are wrong.

But of course you won't admit that. No, you will stick to your guns that everyone convicted in federal court will by law be given a minimum 5 year sentence.

While I have followed this thread I have not posted much. But I will back you up on one thing Bill. I'm not sure how the fact that you believe in fully protecting your computer's data has led some to believe you must be hiding something. I'm a big believer in protecting my computer data from outsiders. So I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there.
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 10:59 am
@firefly,
Quote:
What you posted had nothing to do with first time offenders for possession of child pornography


WRONG the guide lines is a minimum sentence for first time offenders or anyone else.

http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/federal_sentencing_guidelines/

Guidelines, concluding that “[a]n ordinary first-time offender is therefore likely to qualify for a sentence of at least 168 to 210 months, rapidly approaching t[/size]
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 11:07 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Here is part of the fight that is still ongoing in the courts over the minimum Federal guide lines and it would seem only the SC can settle the matter as the circuit courts are disagreeing.

You do not understand the material that you are posting. There is no agreement with the position you are taking in the material you posted.
What you highlighted in red refers to "sentencing enhancements" increasing sentences--not minimum sentencing guidelines.
Quote:

Guidelines, concluding that “[a]n ordinary first-time offender is therefore likely to qualify for a sentence of at least 168 to 210 months, rapidly

Because someone might qualify for a certain sentence, does not mean that is the sentence actually applied. That is an important distinction. In the news story I posted, from a case settled only 3 days ago, the man received only 7 months on a federal charge of possession of child pornography.

These complex legal issues are clearly beyond your ability to accurately comprehend them. And I am quite serious about that. The more you try to grasp at straws, the more apparent your ignorance becomes.

You are making a fool of yourself.
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 11:08 am
@CoastalRat,
Quote:
but you ignore the fact that they are only guidelines. Judges are free to impose whatever sentence they believe will fit the crime.


Sorry wrong as the federal prosecutors are free to appeal any such below guide line sentences to the higher courts and depending where you happen to live as in the first or fifth circuit courts for example you are likely to have the sentencing judge overrule and a harsher sentence imposed.

Trial Judges are not free agents in sentencing and can and often are reverse.

BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 11:14 am
@firefly,
Sorry you are no lawyer and we are talking about the minimum sentencing that a first time offender will be looking at no matter what other factors that might normally reduce that sentence that are in play.

Too bad you are having a hard time understanding the issues due to the legal language that is being used.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 11:25 am
@firefly,
Firefly are you trying to claimed that the federal guide lines does not call for a minimum sentence of five years for a first time offender or not?

Or are you just game playing knowing that is the sentence that is call for?

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 11:26 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Sorry wrong as the federal prosecutors are free to appeal any such below guide line sentences to the higher courts and depending where you happen to live as in the first or fifth circuit courts for example you are likely to have the sentencing judge overrule and a harsher sentence imposed.

Do you realize how incredibly stupid you sound?
The prosecutor is the one who offers the plea deal--he/she has no reason to appeal a sentence, below the minimum guideline, that they offered to the defendant.
Your thinking seems devoid of any logic. Rolling Eyes

Cite me the specific federal cases, regarding only first time possession of child pornography, where federal judges overruled the plea deal that the defendant and the prosecutor had both agreed to, and the judge imposed a harsher sentence than that which had been agreed to.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 11:42 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Do you realize how incredibly stupid you sound?


Clearly not, or he would have shut up a long time ago.
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 11:47 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Do you realize how incredibly stupid you sound?
The prosecutor is the one who offers the plea deal--he/she has no reason to appeal a sentence, below the minimum guideline, that they offered to the defendant.
Your thinking seems devoid of any logic.


Where are you coming up with plea deals and agreements on below sentencing guide lines.

Lord you must think that the people who read this thread are stupid.

The minimum sentence under the guide lines is now five years.

Now once more are you claiming otherwises?

REPEAT ONCE MORE ARE YOU CLAIMING THAT THE FEDERAL SENTENCING GUIDE LINES DOES NOT CALL FOR A MINIMUM SENTENCE OF FIVE YEARS OR NOT?

It is a simple question so how about a direct answer from you?
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 12:04 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Cite me the specific federal cases, regarding only first time possession of child pornography, where federal judges overruled the plea deal that the defendant and the prosecutor had both agreed to, and the judge imposed a harsher sentence than that which had been agreed to.


Where are you and how can even you come up with such craziness that have nothing to do with the issue below.

ONCE MORE ARE YOU CLAIMING OR NOT CLAIMING THAT AS IT NOW STAND THAT THE FEDERAL SENTENCING GUIDE LINES DOES NOT CALL FOR A MINIMUM SENTENCING OF FIVE YEARS OR NOT.

IT IS A SIMPLE QUESTION AND CAN BE ANSWER BY A YES OR A NO.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 12:37 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Where are you coming up with plea deals and agreements on below sentencing guide lines.

Obviously, either you cannot read, or your memory is totally shot to hell. I posted a clear example of one such plea deal on the previous page of this thread. And I have posted others in this thread--all of which were federal plea deals well below the minimum sentencing guidelines.

This is the one I posted on the previous page of this thread--it was in court only three days ago, and the info comes directly from the federal government..
Quote:
This case, from just three days ago, is an excellent example of a federal sentence that is significantly less than 5 years--in fact, the man was sentenced to only 7 months, and, he received time served, so he walked out of the courtroom.

Former Waterloo Man Sentenced on Child Pornography Charge

A man who possessed child pornography was sentenced December 12, 2011, to seven months in federal prison.

Martin Weeks, age 43, formerly of Waterloo, Iowa, and now of New York, received the sentence after a July 7, 2011, guilty plea to one count of possessing child pornography. At the guilty plea, Weeks admitted that, between November 2007 and February 2008, he knowingly possessed child pornography.

Weeks was sentenced in Cedar Rapids by United States District Court Chief Judge Linda R Reade. Weeks was sentenced to seven months’ imprisonment. A special assessment of $100 was imposed, and Weeks must also serve a five-year term of supervised release.

He must comply with all sex offender registration and public notification requirements.

Weeks was released with credit for time served.

This case was prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorney Mark Tremmel and was investigated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

This case was brought as part of Project Safe Childhood, a nationwide initiative launched in May 2006 by the Department of Justice to combat the growing epidemic of child sexual exploitation and abuse. Led by United States Attorneys’ Offices and the Criminal Division’s Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section (CEOS), Project Safe Childhood marshals federal, state, and local resources to better locate, apprehend, and prosecute individuals who exploit children via the Internet, as well as to identify and rescue victims. For more information about Project Safe Childhood, please visit www.projectsafechildhood.gov.

Court file information is available at https://ecf.iand.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/login.pl. The case file number is CR 10-2053.

http://7thspace.com/headlines/402182/former_waterloo_man_sentenced_on_child_pornography_charge.html


Quote:
Lord you must think that the people who read this thread are stupid.

No, that is the opinion I hold only of you. Laughing
Quote:
REPEAT ONCE MORE ARE YOU CLAIMING THAT THE FEDERAL SENTENCING GUIDE LINES DOES NOT CALL FOR A MINIMUM SENTENCE OF FIVE YEARS OR NOT?

No, I am not claiming that you nitwit. What I am claiming is that you don't seem to understand the meaning of the term "guideline". You seem to equate it with a mandatory minimum sentence which must always be imposed, under all circumstances.
A guideline is just that, a guideline. And, in federal cases, involving only first time possession of child pornography, most cases are settled with plea deals that carry sentences significantly below 5 years--as is quite evident in the case posted above.

You just can't deal with reality. Facts confuse you. Complex legal issues are clearly above your head. You are out of your depth on this matter. And you are too dumb to realize that.




firefly
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 12:45 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Clearly not, or he would have shut up a long time ago.

And BillRM seems to be reminding a number of people, more and more, of JGoldman10.
Have you noticed that he is now even typing in CAPS, just like JG? Laughing

His posts, certainly in the last few pages of this thread, are one of the most magnificent displays of stupidity and stubbornness I've witnessed on these boards in quite a while. And he's not even aware of it. He thinks he's making sense. Laughing
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 12:53 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
And BillRM seems to be reminding a number of people, more and more, of JGoldman10.

They both seem to think that intransigence wins the argument, as opposed to showing you're stuck in an intellectual cul-de-sac.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 12:59 pm
@firefly,
The fact that the minimum sentence of five years can be gotten around at least in some circuits does not change in any way or in any manner that is the minimum sentence that a federal judge is suppose to give in a child porn case.

So once more are you trying to claimed that five years is not the minimum sentence under the federal guide lines or not for child porn?

After and if I get you to admitted that a five years sentence is the minimum under federal guide lines we can move on to how often a lesser sentence is given by federal judges and how often and in what circuits a judge is likely to be overrule and a harsher sentence imposed.


So once more for the hundreds and one time are you claiming that the minimum sentence under the federal guide lines for any repeat any child porn conviction is five years or not?

IF is a simple question and one I am not going to move away from until you give an answer to and posting a case or two where a court/judge had not obey the minimum sentencing guide lines is not an answer in any way or in any manner.

PS posting in cap is an attempt to get you to answer a very very simple question that you are refusing to address.

Yes we all know that you are dishonest but this is beyond being dishonest to being outright silly.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 01:02 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
and posting a case or two where a court/judge had not obey the minimum sentencing guide lines is not an answer in any way or in any manner


Yes it is.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 01:04 pm
@firefly,
You seem to be under the impression that BillRM is interested in debate. That he is interested in presenting facts to support his position.

He is not.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 01:05 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

You seem to be under the impression that BillRM is interested in debate. That he is interested in presenting facts to support his position.

He is not.


He wants to debate, but he's not capable.
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 01:11 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Yes it is.


No it is not as it is rare for a federal judge not to follow the minimum sentencing guide lines so most idiots with child porn convictions is going to be sentence under those guide lines and that is a matter of public record that such had been occurring.

More then willing to move on the the subject of how often a lessor sentence then five years is given and upheld and related subjects once our friend Firefly clearly state that she is aware that the minimum sentence is suppose to be five years for this crime under current federal guide lines.

izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 01:13 pm
Quote:
Firefly clearly state that she is aware that the minimum sentence is suppose to be five years for this crime under current federal guide lines.


No she doesn't.
 

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