17
   

Man's life Over, Cops Decide He Watched Child Porn in First Class

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 06:22 am
@FOUND SOUL,
FOUND SOUL wrote:
Why though are you so supportive of this thread? That Children undressed is "ok" as long as there is no "horrible" crime


In the same way that an alcoholic likes to compare himself with other alcoholics in order to minimise the extent of his addiction, Bill likes to compare himself to other paedophiles, so that his predatory behaviour does not seem quite so bad. He says it is wrong to rape babies, but that's about it. In his eyes, those are the only paedophiles, and people like him, who wait until they're ready to start school before they start abusing them are misunderstood freedom fighters.
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 06:50 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
there also were numerous images of school-age children at play. These images included groups of children at playgrounds, school functions and a parade,” court papers state


Hawkeye about three years ago I had some kittens I needed to find homes for and my wife who once was the deputy director for a major city/county child welfare department suggested that I carry them over across to the park next door.

Being innocent and pure of heart I did not see any problem with that suggestion and did so.

Soon I was surrounded with young girls and I kept telling them that the kittens was free but they would need to bring their parents over to give approval.

Shortly a very worry female park employee told me that I would need to leave at once as animals was not allowed in the park.

Only on seeing the look on her face did it dawn on me that I was playing the part of an abuser of children with my kittens and me sitting at a park bench.

Returning home I ask my wife if she was trying to get rid of me by sending me alone to the park with those kittens.

Oh!!! was her comment as she claimed that it did not enter her mind either on how it would look in this day and age.

Sad universe we live in when we need to keep in mind how our actions will look to others anywhere near children.

BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 06:57 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
He says it is wrong to rape babies, but that's about it. In his eyes, those are the only paedophiles, and people like him, who wait until they're ready to start school before they start abusing them are misunderstood freedom fighters.


Once more mental health counseling might be of help to you my friend.
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 06:59 am
@BillRM,
Bill

Are you suggesting you have been thought as a Ped, you are confusing me.

You are "okay" with photos of children as long as no one is physically hurting them, you put yourself in danger, wife's fault and realise that that is perhaps percieved as wrong.

You do watch Porn so hense the privacy on both computers but older women like me? Like 48 full of life now know what they want?

You're speaking , speak again I haven't read all of your threads, why not say what you really think about porn what is acceptable what is not why it's okay to see kids naked in some instances not in others

PS Why do you keep referring to Hawkeye as if you need his validation, assistancce, help?
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 07:18 am
@FOUND SOUL,
Off hand except for teens sending pictures of themselves to their sexual partners I had no real problem with the current laws except in the US unlike the UK all child porn is the same and required the same harsh punishment under Federal law of a minimum of five years in prison.

Having pictures of late teens having sex and children and infant being rape is all the same and call for the same minimum punishment of five years under US federal law.

It is so bad that the vast majority of Federal judges happen to disagree with that element of the law.

Oh, I would also like to see intend come into the current law when dealing with a pictures or videos where there could be reasonable question of the age of the person.

Cutting and pasting the UK law where there are five levels of child porn and the punishment depend on the level would be my suggestion in connection to US law.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 07:21 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Who in their right mind would buy child porn???!!!!!?????

Right--you've already pointed out that you know where to get it free.
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 07:31 am
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
you put yourself in danger, wife's fault and realise that that is perhaps percieved as wrong.


First I did not blamed my wife I just stated that it was both amazing and amusing that she did not see the problem as she was a deputy director of a major child protection department at one time.

But then you do not normally think of yourself or your husband in those terms.

In any case yes an old guy with kittens on a park bench enacting with children over them is going to be perceived as a likely threat even if my wife or I did not think of it at the time.

The simplest solution if we had thought about the issue would had been for my wife to come along with me as then I would not had fit the classic profile of a child abuser looking for victims.
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 07:36 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Right--you've already pointed out that you know where to get it free.


You are right I do know where to get CP for free and I also know where to go to buy drugs or picked up hookers or do a lot of illegal things however that knowledge that I happen to share with millions of others does not imply that I download child porn or buy drugs or picked up hookers.

You are a sick old and dishonest lady that is in need of mental health treatments at least in my opinion.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 08:25 am
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:

So why is Firefly the bad person in all of this?

Because I support the child pornography laws.

Because I think it is wrong to abuse child by using them as sex toys, abusing and exploiting them to produce images and videos for the sexual arousal and masturbatory needs of adult pedophiles.

And, because I am generally the only female who consistently hangs in there, and tries to counter the crap that both Hawkeye and BillRM spew forth in any thread relating to sexual assault crimes, they construct rather ludicrous fantasies about the sort of person, and woman, that I am--I am anti-sex, a man-hater, etc..

Among other things, Hawkeye and BillRM have rather inaccurate and distorted views of the actual sexual assault laws, and one thing I have tried to do, in several threads, is to post more accurate information on the laws themselves by citing the laws verbatim. So, my interest in the topic is partly educational, I'd like people to understand exactly what the laws do and do not say. Neither Hawkeye nor BillRM seem to realize that the exact wording of a law is essential to both the application and interpretation of that law, and neither of them ever bothers to cite the specific laws they are allegedly talking about. They attack laws they haven't even bothered to read.

And, since you are a newby to this discussion, let me fill you in a little bit. Hawkeye is a self-admitted and self-described sexual deviate who opposes all laws dealing with sexual assaults. He denies that there are victims of sexual assaults and sees only the perpetrators of such crimes as the "real victims" because they are punished by the government under such laws. BillRM agrees with him on that which is why BillRM exclusively, and incessantly, harps on the harsh punishments given under child pornography laws--even though those sentenced have knowingly violated such laws, and the sentencing varies widely. Neither of them has evidenced the slightest concern for the children who are horribly abused and exploited in the production of children pornography, and whose privacy is violated anew each time someone views their images. As you can tell, BillRM's concern is only for the privacy of his computer, and not what is being done to those children in terms of violations of their privacy.
Hawkeye and BillRM use threads such as this one as anti-government rants--that's the reason Hawkeye started this thread. He anticipated that he could attack the government for trying to prosecute another "innocent man". Except, as it turned out, the man arrested did have sexually explicit images of young children, some of which involved sexual activity with adults, something that BillRM was still trying to deny as recently as the last few pages of this thread.

This is not the first thread in which we have discussed child pornography. In each of them, BillRM has given other readers handy tips on how to encrypt their computers so downloaded images and files cannot be detected by law enforcement. Now why would he do that on each discussion of this topic? And then he wonders why people think he is hiding something?
Hawkeye tends to argue that the images really aren't child pornography--by his definition of child pornography--and Hawkeye's definitions often significantly depart from the norm. As I said, he is a self-described sexual deviate.

So, I hope that brings you up to speed on the players involved. And you will no doubt draw your own conclusions about all of them, including me.

Hope you enjoy the discussion, Found Soul.
firefly
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 08:34 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
In any case yes an old guy with kittens on a park bench enacting with children over them is going to be perceived as a likely threat even if my wife or I did not think of it at the time.

The simplest solution if we had thought about the issue would had been for my wife to come along with me as then I would not had fit the classic profile of a child abuser looking for victims.

Are you trying to tell us that you have actually been suspected of being a pedophile because of your activity in a park?
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 08:56 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Because I support the child pornography laws.


Strangely I support child porn laws even if like the majority of the federal judges I happen to have some serous problems with some elements of the Federal law.

It nice how you wish to paint a simple picture of the issues and paint anyone who disagree with you as evil and child abusers.

I been waiting for you to try to paint the majority of federal judges as CP users like you had been trying in your very dishonest way to paint me.

BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 09:02 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Are you trying to tell us that you have actually been suspected of being a pedophile because of your activity in a park?


Sure seem like it at the time now are you having a organism over the issue?

Planning how in the future you are going to spin my trying to find homes for four blacks kittens as being a sexual deviate?

You are a sad example of a wasted life.........................
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 09:02 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Strangely I support child porn laws even if like the majority of the federal judges I happen to have some serous problems with some elements of the Federal law.

And you advocate probation for first offenders, right?
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 09:06 am
@Ticomaya,
Quote:
And you advocate probation for first offenders, right?


Not in the case of the top two UK levels of child porn but what the UK consider the lower levels more then likely.

Probation treatments and monitoring for a few years at least.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 09:35 am
@Ticomaya,
Probation almost for sure at level one below with some jail time possible beginning with level 2 and harsh US type punishments for level 4 and five without question would be my judgment.

With late teens being only involved knocking the level down one level on average and very young children being involved knocking it up one level at least.

I would however give the judges a great deal of latitude to go either way in sentencing depending on the details of a case.

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/publications.nsf/key/ChildPornographyLaw

the UK Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) accepted, subject to one revision, the Panel's analysis of increasing seriousness by reference to five different levels of activity: (1) images depicting erotic posing with no sexual activity; e2) sexual activity between children, or solo masturbation by a child; (3) non-penetrative sexual activity between adults and children; (4) penetrative sexual activity between children and adults; and (5) sadism or bestiality. [4.4] Judicial reference has been made in NSW to the COPINE typolo
DrewDad
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 10:43 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
In any case yes an old guy with kittens on a park bench enacting with children over them is going to be perceived as a likely threat even if my wife or I did not think of it at the time.

Who doesn't think of it at the time?

Who the hell takes kittens to the park?

Who the hell interacts with random kids?

Freakshow.
Setanta
 
  2  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 11:06 am
@firefly,
Well, you''re not being entirely honest here, FF. You're also evil because you won't acknowledge that women insidiously invite rape and then run crying to the police about it.
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 11:12 am
@DrewDad,
I had four kittens the park was next door and parents was in the park with the children for a football league game.

I sat on a bench and repeat over and over that they would need to bring their parents over in order to adopt any of the kittens.

The only problem is that I am a male as I question if my wife had either been along or by herself anyone would had have a problem with it.

The fireflies of the world had painted males as sexual abusers by default.

Now I had also taken note how this group had have no problem giving sexual advice to a person who claimed to be a 13 years old girl without her father knowledge less alone permission so showing kittens to similar age girls in a park surrounded by parents seem somehow a lesser evil.

In any case it was an unthinking action as neither myself or my child welfare expert wife happen to think about it as it was a spare of the moment attempt to find homes for those kittens that I had already spend many hours talking to animal adoption agencies and placing posters all over the area including the park.

By the way I did ended up finding homes for all the kittens but for one that I fell in love with only to have her come down with an illness that force me to put her down at age 2 1/2. The second cat I had lost in the last month and a half.

She was more of a dog then a cat doing things like sitting on the toilet lid and watching me shave every morning.

I can only hope that her litter mates are still well and in good loving homes.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 11:20 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
You're also evil because you won't acknowledge that women insidiously invite rape and then run crying to the police about it.


And grown women are never responsible for their sexual actions under the voluntary influence of either alcohol or drugs.

We hold them responsible for their actions under the influence in all others regards such as driving however if they had sex and regret it afterward they can declare it a rape as long as the sex is with a male.

It get kind of confusing for Firefly if both parties happen to be females but she fall back on only males had penises and that matter.
firefly
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2011 11:55 am
@BillRM,
33
Quote:
With late teens being only involved knocking the level down one level

Late teens are not minors.

What makes you think that the types of child pornography images possessed are not already taken into account in this country, with charging and sentencing, even though we might not be relying on the same classification system as the U.K.? Based on cases I have read, these issues do seem to be factored in.
Have you reviewed legal discussions of this issue in the U.S.--do you know why we have not adopted such a formal classification system?
Quote:
Probation almost for sure at level one...
(1) images depicting erotic posing with no sexual activity

So, you see the deliberate posing of a naked child in an erotic manner, and the exploitive viewing of such an image of the child, as a relatively harmless crime?
Why is that? Why would you give "probation almost for sure" to someone who might possess 50 of such images? Why would you exclude jail time?

This is from the link you yourself posted in your last response
Quote:
Not a victimless crime:
The accessibility of child pornography or child abuse images on the Internet raises the question of the relationship between the viewing of such images and actual child abuse off-line by the offender concerned. It is agreed that the very act of accessing child pornography makes the offender a party to child sexual abuse. As the UK Sentencing Panel observed: ‘Possession of child pornography is not (as some have argued) a victimless offence’
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/publications.nsf/key/ChildPornographyLaw


It should be noted that the link you posted refers to New South Wales--was there a reason you selected that particular jurisdiction? Do you have a particular interest in New South Wales child pornography law? You do realize that child pornography laws differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, don't you?

Let's look at the other info in that article you linked to.
Quote:
Definition Issues
A further complicating factor for any definition of child pornography is the varieties of behaviour depicted. The narrowest definition would cover only depictions of actual children engaged in explicit sexual activity. In Australia, the various legal definitions of child pornography seek to accommodate the broader view of child pornography. For NSW, the relevant definition includes reference to depictions or descriptions of a child ‘engaged in sexual activity’ or ‘in a sexual context’. The NSW definition of child pornography also makes reference to a third category of prohibited material, relating to depictions or descriptions of a child ‘as the victim of torture, cruelty or physical abuse (whether or not in a sexual context)’.
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/publications.nsf/key/ChildPornographyLaw

So, in Australia, the images do not have to be of explicit sexual activity to be considered child pornography--they can be 'in a sexual context'.
Quote:
Typologies:
In recognition of the wide range of images that might be classified as child pornography, COPINE (Combating Paedophile Information Networks in Europe) has developed a grading scheme for categories of child pornography material. The COPINE 10 level typology has become influential in clinical and in legal circles.

Please note that the COPINE grading scheme has 10 levels and not 5.

And, while the UK Court of Appeal accepted a 5 level grading system in 2002, that sentencing standard was rejected in New South Wales courts, who decided that ‘sentencing is essentially a local matter’.
Quote:
A revised typology was formulated by the UK Sentencing Panel in 2002. Subsequently, in the guideline judgment of Oliver [2002] EWCA Crim 2766, the UK Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) accepted, subject to one revision, the Panel's analysis of increasing seriousness by reference to five different levels of activity: (1) images depicting erotic posing with no sexual activity; (2) sexual activity between children, or solo masturbation by a child; (3) non-penetrative sexual activity between adults and children; (4) penetrative sexual activity between children and adults; and (5) sadism or bestiality.
Judicial reference has been made in NSW to the COPINE typology, as in R v Saddler [2008] NSWDC 48. However, in the same case Berman SC DCJ rejected any suggestion that the NSW courts should go one step further and take note of the sentencing guidelines laid down by the UK Court of Appeal in Oliver, saying that ‘sentencing is essentially a local matter’.
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/publications.nsf/key/ChildPornographyLaw

Let's look at sentencing factors and case law in New South Wales...
Quote:
Sentencing issues and child pornography case law:
Sentencing issues are raised in relation to child pornography offences, notably the adequacy of penalties imposed on offenders. Maximum penalties are amongst the issues to be considered in the NSW Sentencing Council’s current review of sexual offences. The statistics indicate that those who commit child pornography offences are overwhelmingly male and the majority of offenders plead guilty. A significant number of child pornography offenders are sentenced in a Local Court, in which case the maximum penalty is lower than if a matter is heard in a District Court. Statistics indicate that the average length of imprisonment for NSW child pornography offences is 12 months. The average length of the sentences for Commonwealth child pornography offences in 2007-2008 is higher than the previous year, which may indicate a trend towards harsher sentences for child pornography offences

Case law:
The case law has also raised a number of issues about how child pornography offenders are charged and sentenced when a large number of items are found in their possession. In R v Saddler [2008] NSWDC 48, after discussing the nature of child pornography offences, Judge Berman commented on the inadequacy of the maximum penalty for the offence of possession of child pornography under section 91H(3) Crimes Act 1900 (NSW). ...

Advances in technology such as the development of mobile phone cameras have also meant that problems such as ‘up-skirting’, where the offender takes a picture up the skirt of a female child, have been addressed by the courts. In Drummond [2008] NSWLC 10 the surreptitious, ‘up-skirt’ filming of a 14 year old schoolgirl was found ‘in all the circumstances’ to constitute child pornography. One question is whether such behaviour should be prosecuted under a new and separate offence, similar to the offence of intimate covert filming, which was introduced into the New Zealand Crimes Act (s 216G) in 2006.
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/publications.nsf/key/ChildPornographyLaw
.
It seems to me that, in New South Wales, they take the crime of child pornography quite seriously, and that crimes of this nature can be tried in both district or Commonwealth courts--similar to our state and federal system--that they apply a broad definition of child pornography, and, in some instances, their judges have argued that the maximum sentences which can be imposed are too low and the sentences imposed in the Commonwealth courts have trended higher--indicating harsher sentences for child pornography offenses.

So, exactly how, in your view, does this refect more adequate treatment of child pornography offenders than occurs in the U.S.? It seems to me, they are clearly moving toward increased maximum sentences and harsher punishments.
 

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