17
   

Man's life Over, Cops Decide He Watched Child Porn in First Class

 
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 09:58 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:
In 1957 if some government agent had announced that henceforth all children would be required to be driven to and from school on a daily basis, that would have been the end of the human race right there, people would have simply stopped having children on that day.

You crack me up.

Let's see... for a hundred thousand years, having sex meant having children, and having children meant risking the life of your mate, and a likelyhood that the child would die before it turned two.

And the human race survived.

Yet the hardship involved in driving a child to school would cause people to stop engaging in sex?

Really?
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 10:16 am
I notice none of the usual clowns have bothered to think about the question I mentioned of having a video of the Enola Gay and Hiroshima on a computer disk.

Again the question, when do people start going to prison for that?

Again the logic is entirely the same, the wrong person could watch that and then set out to build an atom bomb and drop it on some kindergarden.
firefly
 
  2  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 10:43 am
@gungasnake,
But you are making an illogical connection to the legal issues involved in child pornography with the examples you are raising.

Child pornography depicts criminal acts against children--acts of sexual abuse and sexual exploitation. The distribution of this material continues the sexual exploitation of these children, and the collection and re-viewing of these images additionally violates both the privacy and property rights of the children. There are, therefore, well established legal foundations for the laws criminalizing the possession of this material. And enforcement of such laws is done globally, on an international basis.

Nothing you are saying seems, at all, connected to those legal issues, or even to the topic of this thread.



OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 10:59 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:
Consider that one of the biggest pervert trials of our age is going on even now in the environs of Penn State University:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/12/jerry-sandusky-trial-victim-1-accuser-witness-abuse_n_1589496.html

One thing I notice is that the victims all claim to have been psychologically damaged and I wouldn't dispute that, but they all appear to be alive, at least as far as I can tell.

Compare that with the activities of one of the government bureaucrats who has taken the most interest in pervert cases and in "protecting" children from perverts, even when that requires extreme measures i.e. Janet Reno:

In Reno's case, there were innocent people spending long periods of time in prisons for crimes which not only never happened but which in several cases were not even physically possible:

http://www.iwf.org/news/2432422/Janet-Reno-and-Her-Record-as-a-So-Called-Champion-of-Children

But there was also a case involving a church in Waco Texas in which Reno saved over a dozen children from possible sexual abuse by firebombing them:

http://www.serendipity.li/waco.html

A typical case, Before:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/WACO/30_port.jpg

and after:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/WACO/30_pix.jpg

So that the simple question is, who would you rather take your chances with between Jerry Sandusky and Janet Reno? Or between Jerry and some government agency which might want to plant images on your computer the way that some rogue cops plant drugs on people who, for whatever reason, they want off the streets?
Your points r very well reasoned, Gunga.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 11:21 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
But you are making an illogical connection
to the legal issues involved in child pornography with the examples you are raising.

Child pornography depicts criminal acts against children--acts
of sexual abuse and sexual exploitation.
The same as depicting a murder, e.g. the Kennedy assassination ?
According to the federal statute, sexual abuse need not necessarily
be shown, e.g., if any people from O to 18 years of age make love
to one another, or simply r nude, doing nothing,
with someone's rear end showing in a picture.
In theory, the Coppertone ad with the little dog
tugging down a girl's bathing suit wud be a felony for showing her butt.



firefly wrote:
The distribution of this material continues the sexual exploitation of these children,
and the collection and re-viewing of these images additionally violates both the privacy and property rights of the children.
It is possible that the models (of any age) have a right to be paid,
for their participation. Indeed, the models of any age,
possibly might choose to sell pictures of themselves
on a long term basis. It shud be whatever the traffic will bear.

If rape was committed, then the rapist shud be found,
tried and incarcerated for rape, not for photography.

According to your principles of non-distribution,
which u deem to be exploitive, censorship shud be imposed
merely for textually REPORTING the event in prose or poetry,
with the fullest disdain for the First Amendment.
The same principles apply.


NOTE MY OBJECTION TO CENSORSHIP.





David
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 11:36 am
@firefly,
Sorry but the gentleman have a point that pictures of illegal acts with any connection with children should all be ban by the logical you are using.

The showing of a poor child being beaten with a belt on the TV news by a step father for not being able to catch a thrown ball in the back yard , by my local TV stations for example.

Hell someone might had been turn on in a sexual manner by seeing the boy being beaten for that matter.

Yes, I still can not bring myself to go with the position of not having CP illegal, but thanks to the harms of going so overboard in punishments for having such materials perhaps the path to the least harm would be to repeal the CP laws.
firefly
 
  2  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 12:15 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:

According to your principles of non-distribution,
which u deem to be exploitive,

It is the courts, on an international scale, which have deemed the material to be sexually exploitative of the children involved--including the viewing of such material. For an attorney, you seem quite uninformed regarding case law--despite the fact that it has been previously posted in this thread, several times.

BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 12:36 pm
@firefly,
The simplest solution would be to label {digest sign} and allow CG CP where no children are involved in it production in any way or in any manner.

It would still be disgusting to 99.9999 of the population but we should not lock up people for considering their sexual desires as disgusting to the majority of us as long as it harm no children or non-consenting adults.

For example I would not myself care to view the SM kind of porn that would likely turn on Hawkeye or gay males porns but neither porn should be illegal.

Right now we are locking up people for years for having CP using the reason that such materials is harming innocent victims of abused by existing but CG CP would not contain that factor.

0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 12:36 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
which u deem to be exploitive, censorship shud be imposed
merely for textually REPORTING the event in prose or poetry,
with the fullest disdain for the First Amendment....


Interesting point. That would certainly be enough to put Senator Webb (demoKKKrat from Virginia) behind bars.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 12:42 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Firefly apparently doesn't see any possibility of some young and impressionable pervert watching films of Waco and then seeking to become a government bureaucrat like Janet Reno so she could legally fry children...
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 12:47 pm
Age is no barrier when it comes to those who sexually abuse children, or who are involved in child pornography--this man is 79.
Quote:

Wednesday June 13, 2012
Elderly man indicted for producing child pornography
by Ashley B. Craig
Charleston Daily Mail

An elderly Charleston man has been indicted by a federal grand jury for producing child pornography.

Jack E. Gravenmier, 79, of South Hills is charged with two counts of producing visual depictions of sexually explicit conduct involving three minors.

The indictment alleges that Gravenmier coerced the children into engaging in sexual conduct so he could make the images. Those incidents were alleged to have occurred between 2002 and February 2003.

He is also charged with possessing hundreds of images and videos of child pornography on his computer.

Authorities searched Gravenmier's Beaumont Road home on Feb. 11 at the request of detectives in Missouri. Inside they found pictures of boys, multiple VHS tapes and DVDs, pornography, condoms, male enhancement pills, video cameras, handwritten notes, computers and various firearms.

FBI agents arrested Gravenmier in St. Louis on Feb. 13. He was charged there with two counts of attempt to persuade a minor to engage in sexual activity, two counts of travel with the intent to engage in illicit sexual conduct, production of child porn and possession of child porn.

A detective with the Troy (Mo.) Police Department received a complaint in January from a woman who claimed her 14-year-old son had been sexually abused by Gravenmier, according to a search warrant on file in U.S. District Court.

The boy told his mother the abuse occurred in the summer of 2011 while he was spending time with family in Georgia. He told authorities Gravenmier performed oral sex on him at least three times while he was in Georgia, according to court documents.

The boy told police he and Gravenmier had been communicating by text messages and the elderly man had been sending sexually explicit texts and photographs. He mentioned past sexual encounters and plans to visit the boy, documents said.

The detective was given permission to pose as the boy and continue the conversation with Gravenmier. The elderly man sent four videos of what he described as child pornography and four pictures, including one of a boy Gravenmier was sexually intimate with.

He told the detective he had more videos and would bring memory cards when he traveled to Missouri in February.

The indictment seeks the forfeiture of Gravenmier's house at 833 Beaumont Road in Charleston, not far from Overbrook Elementary School, and a Cutaway recreational vehicle that allegedly were used in commission of the crimes.

He faces up to 70 years in prison, a $750,000 fine and lifetime supervised release.

It was not immediately clear whether Gravenmier was in custody.

An elderly Charleston man has been indicted by a federal grand jury for producing child pornography.

Jack E. Gravenmier, 79, of South Hills is charged with two counts of producing visual depictions of sexually explicit conduct involving three minors.

The indictment alleges that Gravenmier coerced the children into engaging in sexual conduct so he could make the images. Those incidents were alleged to have occurred between 2002 and February 2003.

He is also charged with possessing hundreds of images and videos of child pornography on his computer.

Authorities searched Gravenmier's Beaumont Road home on Feb. 11 at the request of detectives in Missouri. Inside they found pictures of boys, multiple VHS tapes and DVDs, pornography, condoms, male enhancement pills, video cameras, handwritten notes, computers and various firearms.

FBI agents arrested Gravenmier in St. Louis on Feb. 13. He was charged there with two counts of attempt to persuade a minor to engage in sexual activity, two counts of travel with the intent to engage in illicit sexual conduct, production of child porn and possession of child porn.

A detective with the Troy (Mo.) Police Department received a complaint in January from a woman who claimed her 14-year-old son had been sexually abused by Gravenmier, according to a search warrant on file in U.S. District Court.

The boy told his mother the abuse occurred in the summer of 2011 while he was spending time with family in Georgia. He told authorities Gravenmier performed oral sex on him at least three times while he was in Georgia, according to court documents.

The boy told police he and Gravenmier had been communicating by text messages and the elderly man had been sending sexually explicit texts and photographs. He mentioned past sexual encounters and plans to visit the boy, documents said.

The detective was given permission to pose as the boy and continue the conversation with Gravenmier. The elderly man sent four videos of what he described as child pornography and four pictures, including one of a boy Gravenmier was sexually intimate with.

He told the detective he had more videos and would bring memory cards when he traveled to Missouri in February.

The indictment seeks the forfeiture of Gravenmier's house at 833 Beaumont Road in Charleston, not far from Overbrook Elementary School, and a Cutaway recreational vehicle that allegedly were used in commission of the crimes.

He faces up to 70 years in prison, a $750,000 fine and lifetime supervised release.

It was not immediately clear whether Gravenmier was in custody.
http://www.dailymail.com/News/201206120205


And that man was only one of several recent cases in the same jurisdiction...
Quote:
June 13, 2012
Beaver man faces child porn charges
From Staff Reports

BECKLEY — A Beaver man is facing federal charges that he downloaded and possessed hundreds of computer images and videos of child pornography — the fourth such case this week by U.S. Attorney Booth Goodwin, who labeled such offenses “disgusting and shameful.”

Steven Russell Helton, 20, was named in a federal indictment returned by a grand jury that met in Beckley.

If convicted, Helton could be imprisoned for up to 10 years, fined a maximum $750,000 and be placed on lifetime supervised release.

The same jury indicted a 79-year-old Charleston man on charges of producing child pornography.

Jack E. Gravenmier is facing two counts of producing visual depictions of sexually explicit conduct involving three minors, referred to in the indictment merely by their initials. The charge said he induced the children into sexual conduct so he could produce an image of their conduct.

A third count lodged against Gravenmier was that he possessed hundreds of images and videos of child pornography on his computer.

Goodwin said the indictment is seeking the forfeiture of the man’s Charleston home, along with a Cutaway van, allegedly used in the commission of the crimes.

Only a day earlier, Adam K. Seen, 25, a former information technology specialist for Roane County schools before his 2009 arrest, was sentenced to two years in prison and a decade of supervised release.

His brother, Jacob T. Seen, 23, was given a 30-month sentence and 15 years of supervised release.

The brothers admitted having more than 600 images and videos of children in sexual interludes.

“Crimes like this make me sick, and they make me angry,” Goodwin said.

“There’s no other way to say it. To get pleasure from the sexual abuse of children is one of the most disgusting and shameful things imaginable.”

Goodwin predicted that child exploitation won’t let up, as long as some people continue to download and share such pictures.

“That’s why these cases are so important, and why my office works hard to see criminals like these locked up where they belong.”


Jacob Seen also acknowledged in a plea hearing that his collection included a video of a prepubescent minor in a sadistic or masochistic act, or in sexual violence.

A fourth defendant, Randall K. Taylor, 47, was accused in another new indictment of failing to register as a sex offender last September when he moved from Ohio to Rockport in Wood County.

Taylor had been convicted in 1991 and was obligated to update his registration under the federal Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act.

Goodwin said the cases were brought as part of the Project Safe Childhood, and were aided by the West Virginia State Police, the FBI, the U.S. Marshals Service, and Charleston Police Department. Assistant U.S. Attorney Lisa Johnston has been in charge of the prosecution of the cases.
http://www.register-herald.com/local/x1828362919/Beaver-man-faces-child-porn-charges
firefly
 
  2  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 12:59 pm
Even those in law enforcement sometimes become involved with child pornography.
Quote:
Former Iberia Parish Sheriff's Deputy Sentenced in Federal Court for Child Porn. Charges
Jun 13, 2012
by KATC

United States Attorney Stephanie A. Finley announced that former Iberia Parish Sheriff's Deputy Daniel J. Bourque, Jr., 33, of Erath, La., was sentenced today to serve 12 years in federal prison for receiving child pornography. The sentence was handed down by U.S. District Judge Richard T. Haik in federal court in Lafayette. In addition to the prison term, the judge also sentenced Bourque to 15 years of supervised release following confinement.

Bourque pled guilty in February of 2012 to receiving child pornography. The investigation revealed that the defendant used an internet peer to peer site which is regularly used to receive child pornography. During a search of Bourque's residence, he admitted to agents that he had downloaded child pornography from the internet. Agents seized five hard drives, cell phones, and various compact discs which contained approximately 15 videos of child pornography and approximately 630 images of child pornography.

United States Attorney Stephanie A. Finley stated, "Anyone who distributes, downloads or collects child pornography will face serious consequences. They should understand that this office, along with our federal, state and local partners, is committed to doing everything we can to protect children. We will prosecute these cases to the fullest extent of the law and will ask for sentences that reflect these horrendous criminal acts."

The case was investigated by the Louisiana State Police and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The case was prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorney James T. McManus.

This case was brought as part of Project Safe Childhood, a nationwide initiative to combat the growing epidemic of child sexual exploitation and abuse launched by the Department of Justice. Led by United States Attorneys' Offices and the Criminal
Division's Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section (CEOS), Project Safe Childhood marshals federal, state and local resources to better locate, apprehend and prosecute individuals who exploit children via the internet, as well as to identify and rescue victims.
For more information about Project Safe Childhood, please visit www.projectsafechildhood.gov.

http://www.katc.com/news/former-iberia-parish-sheriff-s-deputy-sentenced-in-federal-court-for-child-porn-charges/

You certainly can't say that people aren't forewarned about the legal consequences they will face if they are found to be downloading and distributing and possessing child pornography. And a Sheriff's Deputy would certainly be aware of those consequences. If this man didn't want to spend 12 years in federal prison, he shouldn't have violated the law.

BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 01:09 pm
@firefly,
Sorry but producing CP and thereby directly molesting children in not the same crime as being a collector of such materials and should not be punish to the same degree.

With special note that we should be dividing CP into the same kind of levels as the UK is doing so having videos of 16/17 years olds willingly taking part in producing porn is not the same as having videos of infants being rape.

The first seem to call for a fine or some such punishment were the other jail/prison time.

But logic and commonsense is not allow in this area of the law in the US.
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 01:24 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You certainly can't say that people aren't forewarned about the legal consequences they will face if they are found to be downloading and distributing and possessing child pornography. And a Sheriff's Deputy would certainly be aware of those consequences. If this man didn't want to spend 12 years in federal prison, he shouldn't have violated the law.


It also show that the insane level of punishment is not working as far as stopping people with the desire for those material from downloading them off the net.

Hell any of the p2p networks used by millions of people to share all kind of files are full of files openly claiming to be CP so those laws are not in any manner affecting the available of such files either. No need to go to the dark net or the far corners of the net to find these highly illegal files.

Once more law enforcement and harsh punishments is not working any more then New York State in the 60s locking up users not dealers of drugs for long periods ended drug using in NY.

One wonder at the satisfaction that the Fireflies of the 1960s/1970s in NY when someone was being lock up for years for having a joint or two, stating if the person did no wish to spend 10 years in NY prison he or she should not have had that joint.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 01:27 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
With special note that we should be dividing CP into the same kind of levels as the UK is doing so having videos of 16/17 years olds willingly taking part in producing porn is not the same as having videos of infants being rape

Our laws already make such distinctions, based on the ages of the children involved. If you weren't so ignorant of the laws, you'd know that.
Quote:
Sorry but producing CP and thereby directly molesting children in not the same crime as being a collector of such materials and should not be punish to the same degree.

Distributing and collecting child pornography, particularly over the internet, allows a limitless number to people to continue to sexually exploit the same child, or children, and it creates the demand for more such material, which leads to the sexual abuse and sexual exploitation of continually greater numbers of children.

Production and possession of child pornography are already separate crimes that carry separate sentences. Again, if you weren't so ignorant of the laws, you'd know that.

Punishments for child pornography offenses will not change until the elected lawmakers, who represent the people, want those penalties changed. And, on a world-wide basis, the penalties continue to grow harsher, so that is not likely to happen in the foreseeable future. Until then, people are bound by those laws, and subject to those penalties.

If you can't do the time, don't commit the crime.

BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:12 pm
@firefly,
Sorry we are still leading the way in hash punishments by far as we are also leading the way as far as having tens times the percents of our total population under lock and key compare to the UK for example.

Next the federal sentencing guidelines still is calling for a minimum of five years in prison for any type of CP even if more and more judges are refusing to follow the guidelines in this regard.

I am going to see if I can get a screen capture of a list of files names being offer for download by a common p2p software program when you placed the search terms young and sex into the search engine of the software.

All the harsh punishments in the world in not doing a damn useful thing as far as even forcing CP sharing into hiding.



firefly
 
  2  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:27 pm
@BillRM,
You can repeat the same things over and over, until you are blue in the face. And it's just as meaningless each time you say it.

Nothing about the child pornography laws will change until the lawmakers, the elected representatives of the people, want those changes made. And judges already exercise descretion when imposing sentences. World-wide the punishments for child pornography offenses continue to grow harsher, so what you would like to see happen is not going to happen any time soon--no matter how obsessively you pointlessly continue to repeat it.
Quote:
we are also leading the way as far as having tens times the percents of our total population under lock and key compare to the UK for example.

Maybe that's also because the U.K. has much saner and stricter gun control laws--which would reduce certain types of crimes. I assume you'd favor those too since you keep holding up the U.K. as an example.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:37 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Sorry but the gentleman have a point that pictures of illegal acts
with any connection with children should all be ban by the logical you are using.
Y not censor pictures of ALL crimes??
What is the reason for singling out people of any particular age group??

When I was a kid, I hated and resented that discrimination,
not so much applied to me personally (I did not have much to complain of)
but of the kids by whom I was surrounded.

I knew that I had as much moral right to vote and to drive cars as anyone.
Adults r road tested b4 being given drivers' licenses.
Those road tests shud not be based on age discrimination.
In my mind, heart and spirit I am still that kid and loyal to my values.




BillRM wrote:
The showing of a poor child being beaten with a belt on the TV news by a step father
for not being able to catch a thrown ball in the back yard, by my local TV stations for example.

Hell someone might had been turn on in a sexual manner by seeing the boy being beaten for that matter.

Yes, I still can not bring myself
to go with the position of not having CP illegal
, but thanks to the harms of going so overboard in punishments for having such materials perhaps the path to the least harm would be to repeal the CP laws.
In vu of the First Amendment,
how can censorship be justified ?
In other words:
where does government get JURISDICTION
to make communication of ideas criminal??

It seems to me that jurisdiction for this is a hoax,
established upon the foundation of emotions and usurpations.
It is very, very ez to support the emotions involved; from what I 've heard,
CP is mostly horrible, ugly, alarming images of brutal rapes.
That is worse than garbage, but the abandonment of reason,
in favor of hoax and emotion, by government is more dangerous for all of us,
including the children who will live in the less free society that results.


Instead of concerning ourselves with criminal-based thought control,
let 's all turn our attention to a wholesome curtailment of government jurisdiction,
by statutory repeal, restoring the status quo ante, back to the 1880s.

Let 's have America be the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave





David
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 03:01 pm
@firefly,
Sorry Firefly but most of our large prison population have zero to do with crimes related to firearms but instead for such crimes as low level drug dealings.

We lead the world in our prison population not because of the numbers of firearms floating around but the harsh punishments and long long sentences that we love to hand out compare to the rest of the world.

Uk would give a fine or a few months in jail to for most repeat most CP offenses where we throw the offenders in prison for years at least.

Next the don't do the crime nonsense if you do not wish to do the time is not an excuse to have irrational punishments in our legal system.

firefly
 
  1  
Wed 13 Jun, 2012 03:50 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Next the don't do the crime nonsense if you do not wish to do the time is not an excuse to have irrational punishments in our legal system.

It's reason enough for me not to feel particularly sympathetic toward those who are convicted and have to serve those sentences.
 

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