Can Obama Lose? Will he be a one-term president?

@izzythepush,

Now as far as seeing drones accidentally killing a child I would think my reaction would be to kill the foreign killers who are turning my country into a battle field for their own sick reasons.

Now as far as making some grand gesture in my 20s and 30s to give my life meaning you got to be kidding me.

I was a fully employ and happy engineer doing the work I love and that I aim for since my early childhood.

Becoming a mass killer would not have appeal to me at all.

My only weakness might have been the intellectual challenge of creating weapons systems far more advances then a suicide belt out of non-military hardware and doing it cheaply.

Before 911 my wife and I took a tour of Hoover Dam and our guide gave some brief comments on the precautions the government took to protected the dam during WW2.

I begin to list off the ways I would had mounted an attack on the dam even giving special credit to the method you Brits used in attacking the Rhine river dams. Those rotating skip bombs were very ingenious indeed.

My wife told me to shut up at once however…………..

Still all in all even for the joy of solving such engineering problems I do not see myself becoming a mass murderer.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Still all in all even for the joy of solving such engineering problems I do not see myself becoming a mass murderer.

And you grew up in a democracy, not a dictatorship with foreign troops in occupation. You know how you felt because of your circumstances, try to imagine how you would feel if you lived under different circumstances.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

And you grew up in a democracy, not a dictatorship with foreign troops in occupation

Let see the Pakistan tribal areas have no foreign troops in occupation that I am aware of not even the Pakistan military for the most part.

Now in regard to Iraqi if I was a Kurd from the north where evil foreign air power and the no fly zone they enforce would be the only thing keeping me and my family alive from the Baghdad government I would feel very friendly to them.

If I was living under Saddam and was anything but a Sunni with connections to his tribe I would more then likely be rooting for the US and the UK to show up also.

I know you love to see the world in the simple view of an evil US and every one else victims of the US but it is never that simple.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

If I was living under Saddam and was anything but a Sunni with connections to his tribe I would more then likely be rooting for the US and the UK to show up also.

I know you love to see the world in the simple view of an evil US and every one else victims of the US but it is never that simple.

You're the one with the simplistic view, why do you think there are plenty of Shia Moslems in Iraq with strong anti-Us views? Is it because they're all sociopaths? Just because I disagree with you does not mean I believe the US is evil.

If you think you can win over hearts and minds by killing civilians you're off your head.

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@izzythepush,

Given that the people of that tribal area had been willing to give support to groups who plotted and carry out mass murders on our soil before they saw their first American or seem any military response from us of any kind why do you think that if matter one little bit about winning the hearts and minds of a people willing to help harm others half way around the planet who at that point had done zero harm to them of any kind?

Those drone strikes are harming the terrorists and that is all that matter as the heart and minds of the tribal area people is worth zero given their past behaviors and history.

An if they are unhappy about the strikes they could end them within days by just not supporting mass murderers.

In the meantime killing the terrorists and greatly reducing the benefits of having operating bases in the tribal areas for those groups is very worthwhile.

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@BillRM,

You're obviously right, those people are anti-American because they hate your freedoms, and they're all sociopaths. You continue bombing them into submission because there's no alternative. Such an attitude undoubtedly makes the world a safer place. You really apprecite all the nuances and subtleties of the situation.

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@izzythepush,

I had not idea why they was willing to aid terrorists to do mass murderers on our soil when we had very little interactions of any kind with them before hand.

But given that they was more then willing to do so I see them having zero moral rights to complain that their lands had been turn into a battlefield as a result.

Second greatly reducing the benefits that their willingness to provide aid/shelter to these terrorists by drones strikes had in fact increased our safety.

Doing what you seems to wish to do IE allow the terrorists a safe haven to operate in complete safety against us seem a gold road to others 911 level attacks all over the western world.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

I had not idea why they was willing to aid terrorists to do mass murderers on our soil when we had very little interactions of any kind with them before hand.

Exactly, and you're not even going to try to understand why.

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@izzythepush,

When someone is trying to harm or kill me my first or even second concern is not why they are doing so.

The main and overriding concern is stopping the SOBs from doing any more harm.

I know you wish the world to love you and if possible that would be nice however once more when someone is coming at me with a knife my first and second and third level of concern is putting him on the ground and keeping him there with what ever level of force is needed.

In fact they are lucky indeed that we are using such a minimum level of force in dealing with their attack.

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@BillRM,

That's right, you just continue to apply your monolithic logic to everything, all that matters is that you think you're right.

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@izzythepush,

Yes my logic is that if someone is attacking me with deadly force I stop them dead in their track and your seem to be that your exposed your throat so they can cut it with no problem.

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@BillRM,

And an inability to empathise, and see things in anything other than black and white.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

And an inability to empathise, and see things in anything other than black and white.

Yes indeed when a group take over four jets full of passengers and fly them into three buildings I tend to see black and white with no color not even the red of the victims blood.

Then plot such deeds as bringing down another jet liner over a major city and where the master mind of that attack should not had a hell missile fired up his rear end by your world view.

We should just smile and allow such men to live in peace without any fear we might take any action against them.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

We should just smile and allow such men to live in peace without any fear we might take any action against them.

I never said that, and your response shows your inability to deal with the world as it is, as opposed to your simplistic black and white viewpoint.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

never said that, and your response shows your inability to deal with the world as it is, as opposed to your simplistic black and white viewpoint.

You sure the hell had complained that we are killing terrorists in the tribal areas by drone missile fire!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe we should offer them counseling instead of killing them.

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@BillRM,

I complained about killing innocent civilians in the tribal areas, and argued that it is counter productive. Have you changed your attitude, are you now saying that everybody in the tribal regions is a terrorist?

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

I complained about killing innocent civilians in the tribal areas, and argued that it is counter productive. Have you changed your attitude, are you now saying that everybody in the tribal regions is a terrorist?

Hmm, there is no weapons system I know of that there is not some risk of harming others then the intended target except perhaps the knife so to say you can not used a weapon that might harm others is saying you can not used any weapon on terrorists.

You need to allow them to go forward with their training and plotting to do mass murder it would seems by your world view.

Now add to that the only reason the terrorists can operate in the tribal region is with the aid and surely the permission of that area leadership.

They had no problem in turning their lands into a battlefield on the behalf of the terrorists so the tribal population is no more and no less innocent then the population of any country at war.

The only moral obligation we had in conducting military operations is to do our best not to kill non-combatants.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

and argued that it is counter productive

Another comment given that this area leadership was more then willing to offer all possible aid to the terrorists before we had taken any actions that might had anger or upset the tribal population I fail to see what the hell we had to lose no matter how upset they might become that would offset greatly harming the terrorists by not allowing them to have a safe haven.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

The only moral obligation we had in conducting military operations is to do our best not to kill non-combatants.

Well if reports are to be believed you're not fulfilling that obligation very well.

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@izzythepush,

Can we get back on topic?

In my humble opinion, if the economic situation continues as is or, God forbid, worsens over the next year then I'd say he has very little chance to win.

Like has been stated, the economy is what the general public cares about and most "feels" in each of their homes.

Heck, we might even see a "change" type slogan/campaign thrown right back in the face of Obama.

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Can Obama Lose? Will he be a one-term president?

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