24
   

Is that stuff that JTT says about America true?

 
 
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2011 12:01 pm
@BillRM,
Sure, at that point in time Japan didn't seem likely to be as just a leader as America was. But times change, I am not sure that a Japan or Germany of today would be any better or worse in America's position of global leadership than America is.

Pax Americana isn't just about the good stories, where we actually probably did help people but also about the bad. It's a lot easier to ignore the bad and focus on the good if you are an American when the bad doesn't tend to be inflicted on you.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  3  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2011 12:35 pm
@GracieGirl,
GracieGirl wrote:

If it's true, then how come no one's talking about?
If its not true, then why does JTT think it is?


As has already been explained, much of the facts that JTT presents concerning the actions taken by successive American governments is true, but you're mistaken to think that outside of exchanges with JTT, no one has discussed them.

You have been presented with a long list of very similar reasons why members of this forum choose not to engage JTT in discussion. JTT would have you believe that it is because we refuse to confront the truth. Virtually no one else believes that, but we could all be wrong and JTT could be right. You will have to decide what you believe and what you do not. You might want to consider though that it is very unusual to see this many A2K members with varying points of view agree upon something.

Not everything JTT writes of is true, but as to why he thinks it is, you need to ask him.

I'll say this GracieGirl, you couldn't have given JTT a nicer present than this thread.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2011 12:45 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
But times change, I am not sure that a Japan or Germany of today would be any better or worse in America's position of global leadership than America is.


I am far from an expert on the Japanese culture however it is my understanding that there still exist to this day a racist world view by the Japanese people.

The same kind of outlook that cause them to mistreat people they gain control of in the 1920s to 1940s.

I read that it is no fun to be a guest worker in Japan as a result.
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2011 02:03 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
I am far from an expert on the Japanese culture however it is my understanding that there still exist to this day a racist world view by the Japanese people.


I would agree with this sentiment, it's more of an elitist worldview than one particular to race though. They don't think their race is so much superior so much as they do their culture and value the closed nature of some of it.

But yeah, in effect, this is often racially discriminating. And I would say that they have some of the most systemic and deeply ingrained prejudices about race relations of anywhere in the world. For example, I believe they have the lowest rates of inter-racial marriage in the world.

Quote:
The same kind of outlook that cause them to mistreat people they gain control of in the 1920s to 1940s.

I read that it is no fun to be a guest worker in Japan as a result.


I have never been to a place where guest workers were not treated in an inferior manner to the natives though.

Anyway, my point isn't that Japan would have been so much better. We don't really know that. Japan has a more collectivist culture, and is right now much more anti-war than America but who is to say that this culture would be the same if they were in power? Cultures change, my point is really that even if Nazi Germany had won, that doesn't mean we'd all be Nazi's today, and Germany could still have evolved its culture into the progressive one it is today in theory. We can't just freeze time there, and say that because we stopped those bad regimes the subsequent imperialism would have been better than theirs.

We will never know, and I think America is probably a relatively good choice if we must have anyone dominate the globe. But at the same time, America has harmed a lot of people in this process of modern imperialism, and whether or not you are yourself an American is something that tends to greatly influence the benevolence you are willing to see America with. Others, due to their far greater propensity to becoming the target of American harm, view America much more warily.

My point isn't that some countries are good and others are bad, I think the very concepts are flawed and that to even try to anthropomorphize their systems into such concepts even more so, my point is that the benevolent empire perspective is one that is much easier to swallow when the empire has your back, but is less easy to swallow when the empire is on yours (or when you fear it might fancy yours).

This largely explains the large trust gap that Americans have in their empire versus the rest of the world (including their allies).
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2011 02:24 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Well in my opinion we shouldn't let fascists tell us to shut up.
How 's that, again???
If someone says something that u don 't like,
then SOMEHOW, u can retroactively prevent him from having SAID it????
I dunno about that Izzy. Is that how thay do it in England?





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2011 02:35 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Do you prefer to torture kittens or puppies?
Decency will not allow that, UNLESS thay r communists.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2011 02:44 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
There's a new series starting soon on Showtime - Homeland. I wonder what that will be all about?
There is another new series: AMERICAN GUNS, qua the Gunsmoke Gun Store in Colorado
and its proprietors, the Wyatt family (2 of whose members r beautiful blondes). It also features very beautiful guns!!!!!

Its on Monday nites on the Discovery Channel.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2011 02:49 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:
JTT is his own worst enemy.
Well, maybe, but I don 't like him much, either.

0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2011 03:45 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I'm sorry, I was forgetting your problem with basic English. Here's the link I posted earlier that you ignored.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-234

You are claiming that America's altruism is shown by not using the bomb against the USSR. I say it's not altruistic, it's practical. The USSR tested its first bomb in 1949, during peace time. That does not mean that they may not have been able to produce an untested bomb a lot sooner if they were at war.

Using a WMD to force an implacable foe to surrender is one thing. Using it against a one time ally is something else. The ramifications would have been tremendous, not least the chance of sabotage within the ranks.

Choose a better example if you want to show America's altruism. This one doesn't work.


In my own opinion, the Cold War allowed some of American industry to not shrivel up after the effort to fight WWII. And, the Soviets, in my opinion, functioned as the "bad cop" for four decades after WWII, so Europe would learn to play nice with each other.

Additionally, with our efforts to de-Nazify Europe, after WWII, it was to our benefit to have a viable Soviet Union militaristically. The belief in a possible attempt at a resurgence of Nazism, after WWII, was in the minds of many people, I believe.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2011 05:48 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

How 's that, again???
If someone says something that u don 't like,
then SOMEHOW, u can retroactively prevent him from having SAID it????
I dunno about that Izzy. Is that how thay do it in England?

Once again you miss the point, and choose to talk about something else, focusing on nuance instead of meaning.
panzade
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 12:51 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert, if your rant was based on just that sentence, ok.
But I was pointing out that (and you might have missed it) I have lived all over the world (as you have)and there's a freedom of discourse here that can seem marvelous after living under the banner of Peron and Franco.

It really doesn't have much to do with the pax americana that emerged in 1945.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 12:58 pm
@panzade,
That is why I said that it only reminded me of it, and that it wasn't supposed to have been taken as entirely referencing you. Guess that didn't work.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 01:13 pm
@izzythepush,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

How 's that, again???
If someone says something that u don 't like,
then SOMEHOW, u can retroactively prevent him from having SAID it????
I dunno about that Izzy. Is that how thay do it in England?
izzythepush wrote:
Once again you miss the point,
and choose to talk about something else, focusing on nuance instead of meaning.
Well, nuance or oldance: it sounds questionable.





David
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  6  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 03:23 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
Pax Americana isn't just about the good stories, where we actually probably did help people but also about the bad. It's a lot easier to ignore the bad and focus on the good if you are an American when the bad doesn't tend to be inflicted on you.

Very sucinct, and why I pay attention to JTT's rants. A whole lot of invective thrown at him is from people who don't want to be told about the bad.
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 03:25 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
Guess that didn't work.

My bad.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 03:27 pm
@panzade,
I question if anyone is bother by being told that the US is not perfect but his constant attacks on all threads he can find someway to fit his attacks into get very old very fast.

On balance the world is a far better place then if would had been without the US existing for many reasons.

panzade
 
  6  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 03:59 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
but his constant attacks on all threads


Hey Bubba! Your shtick got old real fast with me. And I'm sure there are posters who cringe at the sight of my avatar.

Quote:
On balance the world is a far better place then if would had been without the US existing for many reasons.

Check all the countries where this also applies :
Australia
Austria
Albania
Algeria
Argentina...etc
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 04:46 pm
@panzade,
Quote:
Check all the countries where this also applies :
Australia


Your list hardly included any world power but beside that JTT is just posting one posting after another over how super evil the US happen to be.

He had some form of mental illness concerning the subject at least in my opinion.
Rockhead
 
  4  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 04:48 pm
@BillRM,
not a mental illness.

a social disconnect.

one he shares with you, unfortunately...
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 04:49 pm
@Rockhead,
Quote:
one he shares with you, unfortunately.
..

LOL Drunk
0 Replies
 
 

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