Do you hold long-standing grudges? Or forgive and forget?

The way I've put it is that I have a high tolerance for ambiguity.

There are some people who have done things that bother me, a lot, but they have other aspects that I like (I tend to be a sucker for humor, for example).

I do cut people off entirely now and then, and have my limits. And I have more tolerance for ambiguity amongst friendly acquaintances than close friends (the people who I allow to be closest to me are people I trust). But generally I don't classify people into "good" or "evil" or "friend" or "foe" categories. That gets me in trouble sometimes, especially in terms of group bonding sorts of situations.

I would try to make a case that forgetting is much more useful than forgiving. It is only necessary to forgive when someone actually apologizes.

Offenses can either be real or imagined. In either case, obsessing about them would only "screw me up." Forgetting is the healthy thing to do.

Or, I'm expressing how "I" feel, which doesn't constitute an arguement..

Usually I'm nicer. I tend to wander to the next room when people talk about karma. That's not a grudge, just weariness.

So, belated welcome.

We're pretty straightforward here.

If you read my earlier post, you would see that I am a female too, whatever that has to do with anything on this thread.

Up to a certain point, I forgive very easily. Life is too short to hold on to hostility.

On the other hand, if I find a person too troublesome, I simply cut him/her out of my life. Life is also too short to be involved with people who cause me to make myself miserable.

Ah get to know me, give it time, I am a typical Gemini, many sides, many thoughts, etc, thanks for the welcome.

I'll feel my way around and look forward to it... You referred me as a guy on another thread:)

I'm not into astrology either. We are bound to banter in the future.
No hostility meant.

says the Scorpio

Re: FOUND SOUL (Post 4732858)
I'm not into astrology either. We are bound to banter in the future.
No hostility meant.

says the Scorpio

I did write, Darn, as britany said "Oops I did it again" I don't read my horoscope ever:)

But, I so need to not press the report button to reply - instead of the reply button, my apologises... geez - time to get the glasses out:)

(laughs)

I hear you, Reyn!
Been there, done that.

The hardest part of "forgiving " was that fact that my sister also raided my mother's bank account, during the short time she was in my sister's "care" & suffering from dementia.
That part was sort of un-forgivable.
I've found the best thing has to put that (& my sister) out of my mind altogether.
Bearing that sort of grudge indefinitely could give a person an ulcer!

Edgar you made me laugh out loud with that line about drenching his grave in urine! That's exactly how I feel about my ex-husband.

Extreme situations require extreme measures.

Oh, the incredible lightness of being, when we can forgive. Me, I can easily forgive someone, if I but just understand. Forgetting is something else. What the heck, our brains are like computers, there are still couple people stuck in the I-don't-understand catagory. My feelings still hurt. A shame to give anyone that much power.

Oh but is that not the key? If you can work out why? Too many people don't have closure... But then there is also people in this World that we live with this incredible feeling of anger against them and in a way, probably rightly so, I choose to just forget it, live my life, otherwise don't they get a chance to continue destroying it? So I agree forgetting is not as easy but for self worth and being able to live, is it maybe a good idea to forgive or understand for a better word maybe.

You are right it is a shame to give ANYONE that power over you..

I don't disagree however, in peeing on a gravestone if it gives you closure... I just think we should never let someone consume us for the rest of our lives, or else they do win.

I dont know if forgive would be the right word.
In my mid to forgive means you either dont WANT to take action against someone , you can NOT, or are maybe too passive to do so no matter what. Im not saying those are bad things, Im just saying that is what I think of when I hear the word forgiveness. And for me I am none of those. So it does not work.

For example... I should, by most social rules ..psychiatrists recommendations and families insistence, forgive the sexual abuse I endured from a man that started when i was 6 years old. It lasted for several years, and when I finally told my mom, she had him arrested, threw his stuff out and we took him to court. The state of texas found him not guilty and he in turn decided to make our lives even more hell by trying to get custody of my brother, his son.

According to everyone, i should ' forgive' because it is supposedly good for the soul or my psyche. Their answers are dependent upon which side of the spiritual fence they stand on . And when people tell me that, what I hear from them is fear. They are afraid of the simple emotion of anger, as if we are automatically driven to lose all control simply because of it. And since we are told time and time again that anger is bad , we even have anger management for some people ( yes I know some people are extreme and may benefit from those classes...im not digging at them) we are instructed to NOT act angry when we feel anger because it is not polite , appropriate or a plethora of other perceived crimes to polite society.
To forgive means you will no longer act on your anger and you become safe and tolerant like everyone else. You give it up, dont acknowledge it or other wise tame yourself to that emotion so that YOU dont rattle other peoples anti anger cages. People seem afraid of raw emotions that they can not help, hinder, or control and anger is a very strong emotion that naturally triggers people to want to help, or even hurt in your defense... since most of the time we can do neither, we seem to have replaced our comfort with a natural emotion with fear and the quiet expectation of others to not have the emotion since we can not react accordingly.
Stemmed from that fear is ' forgive' because it is good for you, and for me as the bystander because I can not do anything anyway. Is this conscious? Nope.

Anger is good too. Anger does not make you a bad person, anger does not make you a violent person. Anger makes you human and in the heightened state of anger I do believe we can sort of ( metaphorically speaking) burn off the crap from what ever it is that happened.

People will tell others that anger is ok to feel, just dont 'over do it'... and make sure you 'forgive'. That is very condescending and to ME sounds as if people are automatically assuming someone has no control over themselves, or are OUT of control because of their anger.

From my experience only, it does not seem that people are so quick to offer the white pillow cloud of peace when it comes to feeling any other emotion, like pain, sadness..etc. Well, sadness maybe. But I think that anger is the first emotion that triggers the 'forgive them' response and as I said, I do think it is partially out of a fear from a forced polite society.

Even in our homes we are told not to yell when we are angry but to try to work things out peacefully...as if anger is dangerous, something to be ashamed of, or an emotion that we choose to feel or choose to create. Its natural , and normal.

People always told me to forgive the man who did that to me because I would tell them that I was angry with him and it always felt very demeaning as if I was not supposed to feel that way because it was a sign of ME being out of control or something thing like that.

As an adult today, I am not angry anymore. I do not give him a second thought until it comes to something like this when I want to use an example or make a point. Now in my life I really do have a back of a duck. I have endured some pretty shitty stuff and none of it even remotely bothers me anymore. I am at a point where someone can literally walk up to me, insult me or what ever.. and when the altercation is over I am DONE with the experience. No forgiving.. just done. I dont hold on to anything like that anymore. There is no need.

The people that have done something that would require forgiveness by its definition , are generally NOT going to be in my life on a daily basis . Unless they can actually stop my in come, remove my home, directly affect me physically, my daughter or otherwise cause something to happen, they do not matter.

I do not ever forget what people have done on several levels. Number one, it has helped me to spot those kinds of people from a mile away and save myself. Number two, if I am ever in a position where I CAN get a revenge, Im going to do so. And just knowing that I think , not sure.. but that may be part of why I really can completely let go of things without having to choose the forgiveness route. Forgiveness to me is a conscious contact with someone on a regular basis that I just will not do. I would have to think about them over and over to maintain that feeling and use that as an excuse to avoid how I feel. Cant be angry because you have forgiven..for example.
No. If Im angry over something, then Im in that emotion until it is gone. No trying to remove a natural reaction, no trying to minimize a strong emotion. No no no. I dont take the time to pity someone, try to put myself in a higher than thou position or other wise justify what they did with excuses like ' they didnt know better' or 'they need help'.

Some people in this world are shitty, some are not. Thats how it works. Always has. Everyone else reaps what they sew, so why not them too? Why turn the 'other cheek' as if being snobby makes one better? be angry, get mad, go through those emotions...its much better that way.

That was a wonderful post shewolf and is how I feel.

Also, some people, the real shits of this world use that mantra of forgiveness so they can continue to be shits.

Excellent post, shewolf! You have made a very strong case that anger is appropriate.

I was one of those who considered anger to be useless. You have actually caused me to change my mind about that.

This idea that we must have "closure"

Sometimes the closure is to acknowledge the wrong done to you, to remember feel the anger when appropriate, but turn it toward making your current life better.

I just had a conversation with my husband, about a situation that has come up with me in the last week, which could have long term consequences. For a brief time a few days ago I felt powerless, scared.

Then, yesterday, I said to myself (I actually said it outloud) "I am NOT going to be (fill in the name). I am NOT going to just roll over and take this. "

Then, I added a couple other names to the list I was not going to be like, and it gave me a much more positive, proactive stance.

Shewolfnm- What happened to you is probably one of the most terrible things that could happen to a young child. But, holding on to the anger simply extends the punishment you have already endured. I would bet that the pedophile that abused you does not give a **** one way or the other. If he had any character, he never would have abused you in the first place.

You certainly, at the time, had the right to be furious about what had happened. But that was a long time ago, and, IMO, it is important for your well being to get past it.

Forgiveness is not the same as condoning an action. It is simply letting it go. By holding on to the anger, the pedophile is still exerting control over you.

Those of you who are following this thread might also be interested in checking out this one, started by dag, a while ago.
A somewhat different focus, but a pretty good discussion, too.:

Forgiveness:
http://able2know.org/topic/161533-1