42
   

Rioting spreading through London & to other English cities.

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 02:21 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Why do I keep having to explain things to you? Even David has said he understands my posts. It is not the quotation I have an issue with, but your interpretation. That's the bit you wrote after the quotation.
saab
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 02:24 pm
what walter pointed aout about the Germans and guns I can only add that we 'Scandinavians feel the same way.
Noone I know would have gun for selfprotection nor would they use a hunting gun for selfprotection. By the way I do come from a family of hunters and have had connection with hunters also a few Geerman hunters over the years.
Owing a gun would not make a person feel stronger
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 02:26 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

German gun laws must be quite amazing since not only do people who own guns feel content with them, they've provided those who don't own them with a remarkable sense of personal security.


Well, here people who own guns legally and have them at home, mainly are hunters, sport persons, gun collectors ...
I believe, they feel content with their firearms.

Those, who own them and provide others with a remarkable sense of personal security, those do such professionally and they get paid for it.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 02:50 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
or are thay legally obligated to let the bad guys win ?


The bad guys get **** on here. I'm not sure your's do.
Izzie
 
  4  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 02:57 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

There has been an argument running through this thread which suggests that only the British can have valid opinions on this subject or if one is not British, one is required to have spent time in the UK before offering an opinion.

I happen to have spent considerable time in the UK and will continue to visit it on a regular basis. This in and of itself doesn't make me an expert on all things British anymore than a Brit's visit to Disneyworld or NYC makes him an expert on the US.

Since no people of any nation are all of the same mind it's pretty silly to assume that simply by living in that nation any of the people are necessarily experts on their own country and fellow citizens.


I don't see anyone here saying that folk are not entitled to put forward their opinions - surely the reason for participating? There's a difference between have an opinion, putting forward a perspective and merely scoffing or taking pot-shots with malice which I feel some folk have done on this thread.

Quote:

Yes, actually living in the nation or city where an event takes place can certainly provide a perspective that enhances discussion concerning the event, but I doubt that you or izzy or anyone not living here in America are prepared to concede that because I have lived here my whole life that my opinions on the events here are more worthy than your own. If, by some miracle, you are, you shouldn't.


Well, IMO, that's just daft.

Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion on any event.

Actually, I believe some of my opinions of the 'events' here are for me, and of course IMO, more worthy than some of yours - simply because of my own personal experiences in this country, which gives me a greater perspective than you, irrespective of whether or not I was threatened by a rioter. So you may have opinions, but I can't honestly say I would value them more than my own on certain issues.

You can have an opinion and your own interpretation about, let's say, parenting issues and the government's role of disempowerment - but, unless you are me and in my circumstances, your opinion is certainly not more worthy than mine based on my firsthand experiences with the government.

However, I'm actually prepared to listen and seek people's views - and having listened, acknowledging other perspectives, my opinion may change on issues. You, from what I can see, appear not to be willing to listen to what other's are saying or pass off the British perspective as being irrelevant.



I'm here on a majority American forum - and it does concern me greatly about the world's opinion of my country.





When other folk, or countries, or people such as Ms Malcolm state
"In a civilized society people would be allowed to defend themselves with guns, not baseball bats."

Well, we (that being the Royal We) the people, disagree with Ms Malcolm.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 03:53 pm
@spendius,
David wrote:
or are thay legally obligated to let the bad guys win ?
spendius wrote:
The bad guys get **** on here.
That 's a good thought (thawt), Spendius.
I don 't believe it, but its a good thawt.
It seems more like the rioters utterly humiliated the decent Englishmen,
even causing them to strip naked in the street for the rioters.
I hope that I'm mistaken about that. ( My grandfather came from
a place allegedly called "Devon Shire" in the 18OOs; I 'm not sure if that 's 1 or 2 words. )




spendius wrote:
I'm not sure your's do.
not enuf, Spendius, not enuf,
but we do tend to shoot them more than u do, for some reason
Izzie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 04:01 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

a place allegedly called "Devon Shire" in the 18OOs; I 'm not sure if that 's 1 or 2 words. )


Devonshire!

We locals just call it DEVON!
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 04:13 pm
@Izzie,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

a place allegedly called "Devon Shire" in the 18OOs; I 'm not sure if that 's 1 or 2 words. )
Izzie wrote:


Devonshire!

We locals just call it DEVON!
Thank u!
Do u live there??




David
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 04:14 pm
@Izzie,
'at's where the 'obbits is from, yes?
hingehead
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 04:15 pm
Sorry if this has been mentioned, but we're getting reports on the sentencing.

Five months in jail for sleeping through the riots but being given a pair of shorts?

Four years in jail for not having friends stupid enough to pay attention to you? (Two scouse guys tried to incite a riot through facebook that never happened)

Call me crazy but should the sentences fit the crime committed rather than the establishment outrage at the whole phenomena?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 04:20 pm
But what was it that made them so hungry?
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 04:34 pm
@spendius,

Remand prisoner being accommodated in a Premier Inn hotel. (this from Newsnight tonight)

Not a lot of joined-up thinking between the magistrates, the Police and the prison service apparently.

I still think, I've said this before, that mainly it was the stupid ones who got caught.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 04:38 pm
@izzythepush,
Why do you suggest that my posting someone's opinion piece about the UK being soft on crime is a challenge to your nation's sovereignty?

And you accuse me of "perverse leaps of logic!"

While I very much like your country and many of the people who live there, how Britain deals with crime is up to the British people. I would like to think I can disagree with your government's polices without being banned from your shores, but in the unlikely event that I ever feel it is too dangerous to walk the streets of London you can rest assured that I will stop visiting, irrespective of the requirements of my business.

I feel quite confident that there are a number of folks in the UK with whom my wife and I have established close friendships over the last 30 years who will indeed miss us, but then most of them share many of my opinions and so I suspect would also not be missed by you if they left.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 04:42 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Why do I keep having to explain things to you? Even David has said he understands my posts. It is not the quotation I have an issue with, but your interpretation. That's the bit you wrote after the quotation.


Because you so often don't make any sense.

This is the bit I wrote after the quotation:

Quote:
The parents have felt disempowered by the very social planning intended to help their children.


You see that as a distortion of what the man said?

Maybe David understand how that is the case, but not me.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 04:53 pm
@saab,
Let me ask you if you agree with what Walter actually "pointed out:"

Virtually no Scandinavians would feel more secure if they had a gun (a hunting rifle if you insist) in their home while a violent destructive riot was taking place outside their door.

I'm not suggesting Germans or Scandinavians need guns to feel strong or even that they should have them in their homes for personal security.

I don't own a gun of any sort, but I can tell you that if there were thugs in the streets outside my house who were burning, looting and assualting peaceful citizens, I would feel more secure within my home if I did in fact have a gun.

Call me a crazy American gun nut if you will, but I just don't have the confindence you and Walter seem to have about your peoples, that I could reason with the rioters and convince them not to target my house, my family and me.

There is no need to exaggerate your self-professed sense of civilized enlightenment.
roger
 
  4  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 05:02 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I don't own a gun of any sort, but I can tell you that if there were thugs in the streets outside my house who were burning, looting and assualting peaceful citizens, I would feel more secure within my home if I did in fact have a gun.


Wouldn't you really feel better just by calling the police? Works in London.
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 05:13 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Devonshire!

We locals just call it DEVON!
Thank u!
Do u live there??

[/quote]

I do indeed!
Izzie
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 05:16 pm
@Rockhead,
we have trolls under my bridge too, Charlie and I often visit her for tea and do a quick hubble, bubble, boit and trouble Razz Hobbits at the bottom of the garden Smile
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 05:22 pm
@hingehead,
Yep, the knee jerk reaaction has now started being a bit if a PITA for the government. Too much disparity for the 'Charging the Nation for a Fightback."

I simply can't agree with some of the sentences - some appear wholly disproportianate to the crime. We do not have the resources in this country to follow through on the all the demands that will face social services etc - I know for a fact they cannot do their work and they walk away from "those who do not engage" with statements such as "it is up them to engage, accept help - if the don't engage - bye" - with the lack of training and understanding that a majority of the workers have (which in some cases is little to zero as new social workers come get paraded in - the government is setting this up for a major fail.

I don't have answers. But I question this whole disparity of sentencing with the government is doing what the people wish "fighting back" as in a knee-jerk reaction - and the RESOURCES to deal with this, bringing it into our schools, parenting orders,- it's just platitudes that are gonna cause a whole world of other hurt.

(IMO Wink )
Izzie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 05:24 pm
I acknowledge how Finn has made anything and everything I said irrelevant - go figure! It was obviously less worthy than his opinion - <schniff> Mr. Green
 

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