42
   

Rioting spreading through London & to other English cities.

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:34 am
@hawkeye10,
I don't mind having discussions, but you cannot find any evidence to back up your ridiculous claims. You're like a secular version of J Goldman.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:35 am
Don't concern yourself with these strange posts, Izzy.

Who knows what the posters have to prove by them?

It's a mystery to me! Confused
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:36 am
@OmSigDAVID,
You are mad. My avatar is threatening to write 'bollocks' on a blackboard. It is a parody of the testcard.
http://www.meldrum.co.uk/mhp/testcard/bbc_test/testcard_j.jpg
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:38 am
@hawkeye10,
Agatha Christie was well known for mixing it up a bit.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:41 am
@Izzie,
We need the same dedication to justice directed at the fraudsters who sold worthless sub prime debt. They trashed the global economy. They need to be locked up, and their assets confiscated, just like we do with drug dealers.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:41 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
You are mad.
No; I 'm in good spirits, rather amused.



izzythepush wrote:
My avatar is threatening to write 'bollocks' on a blackboard.
What are thay? English athletic games??



izzythepush wrote:
It is a parody of the testcard.
http://www.meldrum.co.uk/mhp/testcard/bbc_test/testcard_j.jpg
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:45 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

izzythepush wrote:
My avatar is threatening to write 'bollocks' on a blackboard.
What are thay? English athletic games??


As a comedian, you make an excellent lawyer.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:53 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I don't mind having discussions, but you cannot find any evidence to back up your ridiculous claims. You're like a secular version of J Goldman.
Not any that you will ever accept, but we knew that going in didn't we....

From the Scots

Quote:
02/03/2011

On the day of the Old Firm Scottish Cup replay, and following serious disorder after the last fixture, Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill has said that he stands shoulder to shoulder with senior Strathclyde police officers in the view that the root of violence in Scotland is a deeper social issue exacerbated by alcohol, which has very little to do with football.

The Justice Secretary was speaking after a visit to Scotland's Violence Reduction Unit (VRU) where he met its head, John Carnochan, to discuss joint efforts to tackle violence across Scotland, and met Strathclyde Police to hear about their preparations for the game.

Mr MacAskill said:

"Football of course bears a responsibility, but the violence generated is much broader than the game itself - its effects spread far beyond match days, and the reality is that it is a daily occurrence in far too communities across Scotland.

"The last match saw very few arrests in and around the ground - what happened was trouble and arrests into late evening and early the next morning as drunk fans left pubs and clubs.

"There is a deep-rooted, and unacceptable, social issue involved - which has a great deal to do with Scotland's damaging relationship with alcohol, and little to do with football. The issue is far wider than clubs and the game. It is about a culture of violence fuelled by alcohol
"What we and the police are saying is watch and enjoy the football, but individuals need to take responsibility for their own behaviour. By all means drink responsibly and safely but do not get drunk, get violent, assault your partner or anyone else - the message is that any such conduct is utterly shameful and unacceptable.

"Win, lose or draw, drunken aggressive behaviour has no place in Scotland - it will not be tolerated, and those who step out of line will be met with the full force of the law.

"The majority of fans go out and enjoy the national game without any ill-effects, but there is a minority who seem to use football as an excuse to drink to excess and then go out and cause trouble.

"At the last game, there were 27 arrests within the ground and Football Banning Orders are being sought in 16 cases. We won't hesitate to deploy these powers again.

"There is no excuse and the message is clear - through a record number of police officers on Scotland's streets, if you step out of line, you will be caught and you will be punished.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2011/03/02164705
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:53 am
@hawkeye10,

I can't decide whether that reply was stupid or ******* stupid.

Let's just call it a nonsequitur.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:55 am
@Izzie,
Good to be hearing from you again, Iz. Smile

I was hoping you hadn't vanished from the discussion ... as difficult as it is. I acknowledge that it's not at all easy.

I am looking at your concerns:

Quote:
Things I am currently annoyed about

Police budget cuts et al / government has dosh in the coffers to pay out to all businesses-individuals that have had damage – hundreds of millions

Listening to how naughty Joe Public do bad/heinous things and how ‘we good people’ will Fightback / this coming out of the mouths of corrupt politicians

The fallout over (dis)proportionate crime sentencing – as compared to two weeks ago prior to riots – followed by evictions from social housing / no such similar sentences to people who rent properties from landlords or own their own homes – to me this this seems wrong.



I'm conflicted on many things.


From a long way away (as I keep saying Smile ) these seem to be perfectly reasonable concerns to me.

And yes, I can fully understand why you are conflicted. I think I would be, too, in similar circumstances.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:59 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
, but their mother instilled real values in them. None of them ever looted stores and burned buildings...


But if the value was fear of the law you haven't said much. It was the absence of fear of the law that brought out such numbers to steal and wreck. And Media was showing unpoliced streets and commenting "there are no police here".

We have, in recent years, had two cash machines that started dispensing money at a few notes at a time. Large queues formed when more noticed and to prevent fighting and rioting it was agreed to take turns. They were obviously people with bank accounts who had temporarily ceased to fear the law.

Large numbers of our MPs were caught with their hands in the till when it transpired that their expenses claims could be "padded out" without fear of the law. Large numbers of journalists have been tapping phones because they had no fear they would be caught. Policemen have been taking bribes assuming they had nothing to fear. The Commissioner of the Met. had to resign over a £20, 000 gift. And what can one say about bankers that has not already been said? Expenses claim forms are probably the single largest type of theft in existence. Middle class looting one might call it. Getting caught is almost impossible because those who sign the claims off are fiddling their own expenses.

All of those people, and many more like them, would all make the sort of claim you make about having had moral values instilled in them by a superior upbringing. (my fat arse). It saves them admitting that they fear the law which is considered a bit wimpy. And they are all out now with the infamous reverse invidious comparison as soon as the perfect scapegoat appears on the scene with whom they are free to compare themselves favourably to.

Have you ever seen a programme explaining some simple scientific principle or other in which the presenter is shown visiting 20 different locations around the globe complete with production crew and back-up and the only people the principle is explained to are the ones who already understood it?

Media is THE PROBLEM. "Hello Mum" shite. If sadism is the projection of the ego onto the surroundings then Media is sadistic. Even the TV companies' van drivers strut.

"The medium is the message".

Moral values are rarely instiilled in the absence of fear of punishment.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 05:01 am
@McTag,
Quote:
I can't decide whether that reply was stupid or ******* stupid.

Let's just call it a nonsequitur.
By all means, we would not want to stoop to talking about the individuals right to be not harassed by the state, or any presumption of innocents, or allow the lowly citizen any role other that to be the submissive when the state security agents come around calling........Why dont you Brits just be done with it, go get yourselves some Stasi manuals and have them translated, it is the perfect solution right?. *sarcasm/disgust*
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 05:03 am
@msolga,
I won't disappear quite yet other than for my embarrassment of my appalling spelling mistakes late at night, after my sleeping potion Embarrassed

I don't really understand my politics either. I don't think that the Tories are entirely responsible for the way our culture has become - but I also know my life is very easy compared to many and the government looks after me. That doesn't take away the loathing I feel for them (ALL of them) regarding my personal stuff.

So my conflict is growing daily - part guilt, part anger, mainly - I don't have any answers but I do want to knock their heads together and try and get these politicians to see how absurd their words are when they don't live by them. Yet I live by them and do not suffer like many people - so it (for me) is guilt inducing - hence my conflict.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 05:09 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Nobody drinks 'kool-aid' over here.


What is "kool-aid"? I had never heard of it until I came on A2K. Is it any good?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 05:13 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Moral values are rarely instiilled in the absence of fear of punishment.
Back in the day shame used to work pretty good too, but like with punishment we have worked hard to get rid of it. The dismantling of standards is a big problem, so the Tories are not totally wrong here, just mostly.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 05:17 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
Nobody drinks 'kool-aid' over here.


What is "kool-aid"? I had never heard of it until I came on A2K. Is it any good?


It is American freeze dried urine.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 05:17 am
@spendius,
Quote:
What is "kool-aid"? I had never heard of it until I came on A2K. Is it any good?
Used to drink a lot of it but we Americans are getting away from it because of the high sugar content. It is a mostly a kids drink mix, powdered artificial color, artificial flavor, and acid. You mix it with a gallon of water and a cup of sugar and ice. The sweet/tart is refreshing on a hot day, the colors tend to be bold, flavor clearly is faked.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 05:18 am
@Izzie,
Quote:
I'm conflicted on many things.


Just think of London as a recipient of stolen goods. A collection of shysters.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 05:18 am
@Izzie,
I fully understand where you're coming from, Iz. Including your confusion.

But I want to say: how very much I admire your willingness to comment on issues in your own community in such an honest way. (as if you could do otherwise Smile )
I know this can't have been easy for you.

Please just try to ignore the posts of those who couldn't possibly understand what has happened over the past week. Those who do not live in your country & haven't a clue as to the reasons why & where to go from here.
Izzie
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 05:31 am
@msolga,
It silenty says more than words, when the families of the young men who were murdered make a press call, as they have just done, still calling for calm:

One father said:

1 & 2 points were thanking members of the other family, the UK public and the condolences they have received community and nationwide

3 condolences to other murder victim family

4 more thanks

5 thanks for the police and media whom he did not appreciate before, but does now

6 opportunity to appeal to witnesses to come forward

Finally – they are parents who have lost their children and need to be left alone to grieve – please can the press now respect their wish for them to be left alone.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do hope they will get justice for their children. So terribly sad.
0 Replies
 
 

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