As I've only read this last page of this thread I'll take your word for it - so, is this alleged "umbrage"your answer to my question on Finn's alleged "racism"?
No, I think Foofie and Gunga were both born pricks. I think you're alright.
Oh, well yeah. I mean Gunga for sure. Don't know much about Foofie, but Gunga is a large enough bag of a***oles for the both of them.
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High Seas
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Fri 12 Aug, 2011 12:19 pm
@contrex,
And is that your answer to my question about Enoch Powell's "Rivers of Blood" speech? I realize it's Friday night already in the UK but at least some posters (previous page and this page on thread, haven't read the rest) seem to have been drinking long enough to develop paranoid delusions!
Stop being hysterical. It's only half seven over here.
Over here, the only people to reference Enoch Powell during rioting are people like Nick Griffin. I'm sure it's just a cultural thing, but you wouldn't want to put yourself in the same side of the argument as him.
You've probably got jet lag, maybe you should have a bit of a lie down.
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reasoning logic
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Fri 12 Aug, 2011 12:38 pm
This is just a view point from a video camera, not that all video cameras share the same view point!
No Locally owned or Small Shops looted on Deptford High Street, Southeast London, during riots!
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spendius
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Fri 12 Aug, 2011 12:54 pm
@contrex,
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izzy, why are some Americans such pricks?
Such usage signals a lack of understanding, a limited vocabulary and a woeful gift of expression. Americans are a phenomena.
Norman Mailer puts it quite well--
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Americans might yet run the world, they were certainly first on the way to the stars, and they had never filled the spaces in between. Americans were still as raw as an unboiled potato. It hardly mattered if Americans were rich or poor. When they got together, they did not know what to say to each other. It is part of the double life of Americans , the unequal development of the lobes of the national schizophrenia.
As I quote from Of A Fire On The Moon I might as well give another. Writing about Wernher Von Braun--
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By public estimate he had been a Nazi---that was glamour enough. Who could begin the measure the secret appeal of the Nazis by now? It was a fit subject for Aquarius (Mailer) to begin to brood upon. America was this day (1971) mighty but headless, America was torn by the specter of civil war, and many a patriot and many a big industrialist---they were so often the same!---saw the cities and the universities as a collective pit of Black heathen, Jewish revolutionaries, a minority polyglot hirsute scum of nihilists, hippies, sex maniacs, drug addicts, liberal apologists and freaks.
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msolga
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Fri 12 Aug, 2011 03:58 pm
But back to Britain.....
I'm reading the news online and came across this article in the Guardian:
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Riots poll reveals public back police more than politicians
Guardian/ICM poll: Only 30% think David Cameron responded well while 54% think police are under resourced
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...The poll, carried out online this week as politicians and the police became increasingly critical of each other's performance, suggests neither Cameron nor the mayor of London, Boris Johnson, have impressed the public with their response.
Only 30% say Cameron has done a good job, against 44% who say the opposite, a net negative score of -14. For Johnson, the figures are 28% good job and 38% bad, a negative of -10 points. By contrast, 45% think that the acting commissioner of the Metropolitan police, Tim Godwin, has done well against 27% who say the opposite – a positive score of 18.
But ....
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However, the public are far less confident about the police's ability to keep order. A majority say they think the police lack sufficient resources. The finding could add to opposition to cuts in police numbers and funding.
In the Commons on Thursday, Cameron came under fire from the Labour leader, Ed Miliband, and some backbenchers over plans for cuts and the head of the Association of Chief Police offciers (Acpo), Sir Hugh Orde, has warned they will restrict the police's ability to respond to disorder.
While 41% say they are either very (6%) or quite (35%) confident the police have been given adequate resources, 56% say the opposite. People on lower incomes are the most likely to think the police are
Those polled were asked about what they believed were the reasons for the rioting:
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There is also widespread agreement about the main causes of the riots and looting.
Asked to pick from a list of possible reasons, 45% blame criminality on the part of the rioters. Older voters and richer ones are most likely to lay the blame on this.
Of other possible reasons, 28% cite lack of respect within families and communities. Only 8% think a lack of jobs for young people is the main reason. A further 5% say the shooting by the police of Mark Duggan, which led to the initial disorder in Tottenham, was the main cause, while 4% blame the coalition government, 2% the police and 2% the state of the economy.
Any comments on these poll findings, British A2Kers?
It looks to me (from a long way away) that Cameron hasn't gained much-needed public support as a result of his leadership in this crisis situation.
Is there a serious conflict developing between the government & the police as the result of funding cut-backs?
Also I'd be interested in your thoughts about whether the fallout from the rioting this week will erode public support for the coalition government. (Where are the Lib-Dems in all this? Where do they stand?)
I will say that it is somewhat encouraging that, in the main, all positions on the UK political spectrum seem to be identifying these riots for what they are, and not trying to excuse them.
These riots are the price that must be paid for decades of Liberal policies, and they will come to America if we continue on our current path.
As far as I can tell, race isn't a factor in this chaos of crime, neither in terms of its origins nor its perpetrators.
Here is how these sorts of riots should be dealt with:
After the second day of rioting, when it is clear that it is not a one day phenomenon, the government (UK, US or anywhere) should commandeer the airwaves - TV and Radio and announce to the town, city or country that rioters who run rampant on the third night will be met with rubber bullets, tear gas, water cannons, police in riot gear, and attack dogs.
And...if there are any more nights after the third, the rioters will be met with live ammo and deadly force.
Anyone who riots beyond the second night deserves whatever they get.
Law abiding citizens are having their lives and property threatened by criminals. They should be able to rely upon the government to protect them. If the government can't accomplish this one basic task, what does it exist for? To make life easier for the criminals?
It's unfortunate that incidents like these are what it will take to wake people up, but apparently this is the case.
Just as Europeans are not about to surrender their culture to immigrants, they will not surrender their lives and property to criminal thugs.
Under no circumstances do riots like these signal the end of Western society, London is not about to fall into some post-apocalyptic wasteland where thugs rule and average citizens cower in their homes.
Unfortunately they may signal the transformation of Western society into a far more authoritative environment, but that is generally what happens when we allow ourselves to ride a wildly swinging pendulum.
Deal with it now or deal with it later, but the longer it is postponed, the greater the likelihood of even greater violence and reduced freedoms.
These riots are the price that must be paid for decades of Liberal policies, and they will come to America if we continue on our current path.
Utter hogwash. We've had 'decades' of Liberal policies here in America, and riots and most if not all violent crime are at 50-year lows.
Reality is 100% the opposite of what you posit it to be.
As usual.
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And...if there are any more nights after the third, the rioters will be met with live ammo and deadly force.
Anyone who riots beyond the second night deserves whatever they get.
Guess you're a big supporter of Syria, Iran and other countries who deal with their riots in exactly this fashion. Working out great for them, isn't it?
(Where are the Lib-Dems in all this? Where do they stand?)
I think everybody over here is asking the same question. The only thing Nick Clegg has done is get booed in Birmingham. The only reason there's been any activity in Parliament is because of the riots. This time of year is normally known as the 'silly season,' where journos look for stories, because there's normally nothing going on politically.
The two events to look out for are the party conferences coming up September/October. That lets you know how the grass roots feels, and the various leaders chances to appeal to the wider public. A poll taken about then tends to be a bit more reliable. The other event is the council/ London Mayoral elections in May. Cameron will be watching his rival Boris very closely.
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msolga
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Fri 12 Aug, 2011 04:33 pm
So many articles & so much commentary in the New Statesman today!
It may take all day to read.
Take a look at page 1: http://www.newstatesman.com/
However, not all the articles are deadly earnest. (phew!)
Here's a blog you British folk might have some much-needed fun with!
My favourite (so far) is: "Why is everyone in Tottenham wearing bright yellow?" :
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Friday caption competition
Posted on 12 August 2011 17:10
Boris on tour.
It hasn't been the most cheerful week in England, so let's have a little light relief for a Friday afternoon. Politicians and police were reluctantly dragged back from holiday as riots swept across London and the rest of the country.
Above, the London Mayor Boris Johnson visits Tottenham after the riots.
But what is actually going on? What are they saying?
Leave your suggestions in the comment box below.
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22 comments from readers
Allie Whiteley
12 August 2011 at 17:15
A well-known vandal gets escorted away...
jenny
12 August 2011 at 17:16
"Is this what passes for a red carpet nowadays?"
georgia s
12 August 2011 at 17:16
Boris hadn't got the memo about the dress code.
John Cooze
12 August 2011 at 17:19
"Thanks for helping me look chaps, I'm sure I left my broom around here some where"
mcquade
12 August 2011 at 17:20
Marching orders for Boris.
Max Blinkhorn
12 August 2011 at 17:22
Boris Johnson test out new politician only "walklanes", the proposed solution to Olympic traffic congestion.
Natacha Kennedy
12 August 2011 at 17:23
"Why is everyone in Tottenham wearing bright yellow?"
Mary Locke
12 August 2011 at 17:27
Walking in the cycle lane Boris.
pmdust
12 August 2011 at 17:29
Who ya gonna call?
RM
12 August 2011 at 17:32
London's Olympic preparations in full swing with testing of the new 'Boris lane' system.
judge dredd
12 August 2011 at 17:37
it wasn't rioting, it was looting and burning random things, looters deserve what the get, i'm from n.ireland, rioting happens allot but no looting, this points to organised thugery rather than a society oppressed, on the hind side though it also shows that the police have of too many powers and thats dangerous. Also life in the UK has become very difficult with high taxes that effect the poor more than anyone else, its a catch 22.
