15
   

8-year-old Leiby Kletzky murder

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 04:14 pm
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:
and I don't wanna get shot because people not mature enough
to carry loaded guns in public wish to do so.
Has that become a problem?? (excepting gang warfare for turf among drug pushers)
I don 't think it has.
When we were kids, we were well armed.
We caused no trouble.
Indeed, in the years that I lived in Arizona,
I NEVER saw the police arrive with lights n sirens -- not once.
It was quiet.




Rockhead wrote:
more of them every day.

makes me glad I live in the country like Jefferson's nephew.

more worry from bears than gun toting citizens...
Note also that your hopes, wishes n emotions
do NOT outrank their Constitutional rights and their Natural rights to self defense.


Rockhead wrote:
PS...

I am also thrilled that you don't have offspring.
Thank u.

If I DID, thay might agree with U.





David
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 06:15 am
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:

Miller wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:

Leopold was also responsible for introducing education into the prisons (can't remember exactly how). I saw a documentary on it the other day. I had no idea he had done that or that he had gotten out of jail. Shows how depraved mankind can be.................only evil thinks of doing what they did.


Leopold was also married, while in jail ( as far as I can recall ).


Oh? I didn't know that. I will never understand the fascination some have with marrying inmates.


Both Leopold and Loeb were intellectuals from the University of Chicago.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 06:26 am
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:
Imagine Chuckee Cheeses with pistols and live ammunition.

I don't think so, Charlie Brown...
U know, I've seen many, many times on the evening news that there are Moslem boys,
some maybe 4 or 5 years old and up, with pistols, revolvers
and AK 47s with long magazines.
Thay have never been known for shooting each other up.

Have thay ???





David
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 12:01 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
No1 Why would they shoot each other?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 01:30 pm
@Miller,
Miller wrote:
No1 Why would they shoot each other?
It has been asserted, by implication, (and falsely)
that the minds of children are so grossly defective
that their possession of firearms woud result in chaotic and lethal violence.
From my direct observation, on many occasions
(including when I was that age, myself) this is 1OO% false defamation of children.

So far as the TV news has revealed,
the Moslem children have never turned their (conspicuously present)
AK 47s against one another. We have not done that, either.
( not referring to rival drug gangs at war over turf )





David
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 04:20 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Who is the we you are talking about David? What about all of these school shootings. Isn't that US turning our weapons on us? I haven't followed the whole convo so if I misjumped in, forgive me.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 05:32 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:
Who is the we you are talking about David?
My post concerned young Moslem boys with AK 47s.
I did not say "we" in that post.



Arella Mae wrote:
What about all of these school shootings.
Isn't that US turning our weapons on us?
I haven't followed the whole convo so if I misjumped in, forgive me.
It is not; thay armed themselves to commit murders, not to defend themselves.

The worst (most numerous victims) school-based murders in America
were in Bath, Michigan in 1927 by a disgruntled School Board Member, Andrew Kehoe:
38 killed and another 20 injured.
He used bombs; no guns.





David
Pemerson
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 05:55 pm
Oh, horror of horrors. This has got to be the worst yet. We have no place for this sort of story in our brains (searching quickly, quickly, for happier thoughts).

Now, I hear "they" are considering taking obese kids from the parents and finding foster homes for them. That ought to keep some laid-off social workers busy.

Well, wait a second, there is a connection. Children, at least some, could be gaining weight because they can't go outside to play. You know, too many creeps abound. It's just a sorry, worrisome kind of feeling that parents must be feeling. It just hurts, right in the gut. But, this IS the worst.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 06:41 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Yep, I misjumped in the convo. Sorry!

Andrew Kehoe? Was he related to Chevy Kehoe?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 01:27 am
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:
Yep, I misjumped in the convo. Sorry!

Andrew Kehoe? Was he related to Chevy Kehoe?
I dunno.





David
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 05:15 pm
It would be tough to come up with a more horrific story.

I can't imagine what the parents are going through, unless it's the contemplation of suicide.

This could have happened 1000 years ago and only a very people would have been aware of it. Today, because our news media hungers and endlessly searches for such stories, millions upon millions of people are now aware of it.

This is not meant as a condemnation of our news media. Lord knows they are guilty of numerous sins, but providing us with news that shocks, saddens, angers and cause us to despair, is not one.

We ask for these stories and they provide them.

Nor is this meant as a condemnation of the audience of the news media.

The overwhelming majority of people who have heard this story have experienced shock, sadness, anger or despair...as they should.

We're not ghouls, lusting for pain and death, we're drawn to these sights and sounds because they challenge our sense of normalcy. There is (or, at least was) a lesson to be learned from these events or we would not be hardwired to respond to them with curiosity if not fascination.

It would be a mistake, though, to assume that this story demonstrates how dangerous our streets are or why parents should never leaver their children unattended. If it were otherwise the case, the chances are that we would find the story more commonplace than horrific.

Millions of kids walk our streets unattended by their parents and events and yet events like this one almost never happen (indeed, can anyone remember when such an event happened before in their lifetime? Not that a child was murdered, but that he was murdered by the first adult he encountered during the first time he ever walked the streets alone.). If our streets were truly perilous to unattended children, this story wouldn't be so shocking.

We should also take from this tragedy that evil truly exists.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 06:50 pm
Leiby's father would like to see more security cameras installed in the neighborhood, not just outside of businesses, but outside of residences as well, in order to help protect people from crime. Without the security videos that captured images of Leiby with his murderer, it is doubtful this crime would have been solved or the boy's remains recovered.

One man from the community, Yaakov German, sprang into action after Leiby was reported missing and he sought out all the surveillance videos he could find in hopes of tracing the boy's route and finding out what happened to him. He was very instrumental in helping the police to identify and track down Aron Levi.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/07/15/2011-07-15_i_just_cant_stand_to_see_something_like_this_happening_in_our_community_how_his_.html
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 12:34 pm
Quote:
Kidnapped NYC boy was given drugs, then smothered
By COLLEEN LONG, Associated Press – 1 hour ago

NEW YORK (AP) — An 8-year-old boy who was abducted off a Brooklyn street last week, killed and dismembered had been drugged with painkillers and muscle relaxants before he was smothered, the medical examiner said Wednesday.

Leiby Kletzky got lost leaving day camp and asked a man, Levi Aron, for help, police said. Detectives later found the boy's severed feet, wrapped in plastic, in Aron's freezer, as well as a cutting board and three bloody carving knives. The rest of the body was discovered in bags inside a red suitcase in a trash bin elsewhere in Brooklyn.

Aron has pleaded not guilty to charges of murder and kidnapping. Chief police spokesman Paul Browne said Wednesday that detectives believe the boy was killed sometime late Tuesday afternoon or early Tuesday evening after Aron returned home from work — which means the boy was likely alive for about a day after he disappeared.

Leiby's death was officially ruled a homicide Wednesday. It was caused by intoxication from the combined effects of cyclobenzaprine, a muscle relaxant; quetiapine, an antipsychotic; and the pain medications hydrocodone and acetaminophen, followed by smothering.

The medical examiner's office dated the report July 13, which is when they found the body, not necessarily when they believed the killing to have occurred.

Prosecutors allege Aron lured Kletzky into his home on July 11. Video cameras captured the fateful encounter between the two on a Brooklyn street as Leiby's mother waited anxiously just a few blocks away.

Police and prosecutors said Aron, a clerk at a hardware supply store, has confessed to suffocating the boy with a bath towel, but they continued to work on verifying his horrific and bizarre explanation for the boy's death.

His attorney, Pierre Bazile, has asked for the rancor over the case in the public and press to be dialed down, and hoped the judicial process could take its course.

Inside court, Bazile said his client told him he heard voices and suffered from hallucinations.

Police said that Aron told investigators that he brought the child to a suburban wedding about 35 miles (55 kilometers) away and spent several hours there. Other wedding guests confirmed Aron was there but didn't see the boy.

"Detectives now have reason to believe beyond Aron's confession that Leiby was at the wedding, but not necessarily inside the venue," Browne said Wednesday.

By the time the pair returned to the city, it was so late that Aron decided to take Leiby to his home to sleep and left him there Tuesday while he went to work, according to the police version of the confession. Workers at the supply store said Aron showed up as usual that day but seemed troubled.

Aron told police he killed Leiby when he got home after being spooked by a massive search for the boy in Borough Park section of Brooklyn, home to one of the world's largest communities of Orthodox Jews outside of Israel.

"When I saw the fliers, I panicked and was afraid," Aron said, according to police.

Investigators also have said Leiby may have been tied up and tried to fight back. Kelly said Aron had scratches on his arms, wrists and elsewhere — a sign "there was some kind of struggle." There also were marks on the boy's remains that could have been caused by restraints, the commissioner added.

The medical examiner does not comment on any injuries to a body that were not involved in causing death.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5heRyVBVDbvby0PYQNqK69_a7jTPw?docId=c1e255d164124948a58df3d022bd91ae

The drugging might also explain why the child had not attempted to flee during the time he was left in the attic apartment.

They will likely try for an insanity defense, but this was a cold-blooded pre-medidated murder, and Aron Levi appears to have been well aware of what he was doing, and why he was doing it.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 12:39 pm
@firefly,
I'd say drugging the kid does show premedidation and also legal sanity. He is showing by drugging him, he wanted the boy under his control.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 12:43 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
The drugging might also explain why the child had not attempted to flee during the time he was left in the attic apartment.
Perhaps, though it also fits with the claim that the perp decided only after he saw the posters that the victim had to be killed. We know that he came home and fed the kid a meal, the purpose might have been to get the drugs in him so that killing him was easier, but that none of this had been planned even a few hours before. This theory has it that the kid was alone all day not drugged and not leaving, and so far I am aware of no evidence that contradicts this theory.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 12:53 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Investigators also have said Leiby may have been tied up and tried to fight back. Kelly said Aron had scratches on his arms, wrists and elsewhere — a sign "there was some kind of struggle." There also were marks on the boy's remains that could have been caused by restraints, the commissioner added./
Quote:


this leans towards an indication that the drugs were given to quiet the boy - of course we will all need to wait for final results to see - possibly determining how long drugs in system/and final results (as these were not disclosed) on boy's injuries.

But it definately leans toward pre-meditation and sanity (at least in legal terms).
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 12:57 pm
@Linkat,
We already know that it was premeditated by a few hours, the perp admits it, the question is was it by much longer? I have seen nothing that indicates that it was, but it would help the state to dispute an insanity defense if they should come up with something. The state is waging a PR campaign at the moment trying to taint the jury pool their way, which is gross to begin with, but their argument does not hold any water either.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 01:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
This theory has it that the kid was alone all day not drugged and not leaving, and so far I am aware of no evidence that contradicts this theory.


There is now proof that he was drugged and tied up. This does contradict his theory.

Evidence is showing he was tied up - thus possible pre-meditition and legal sanity, I'd imagine they will be able to determine length of being tied up by the injuries and quite possibly through analysis of length of drugs within the child's system.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 01:08 pm
@Linkat,
Quote:
There is now proof that he was drugged and tied up. This does contradict his theory.
No it does not, because both acts facilitate the killing, which was decided upon before he came home according to the perp. Both acts could also facilitate the theory that he was taken off of the streets with a plan to hold and later kill. The problem is that the evidence does not help us at all determine what the level of premeditation was....and this will remain even if they end up proving that the boy was tied up unless they can prove that he was tied up while the perp was at work.
Linkat
 
  3  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 01:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
Actually pre-meditation does not mean you have to plan days in advance - it can be moments prior to the murder. I was served on a jury in which two brothers were on trial for murder. They confessed to this crime, but their defense was their crime was not first degree murder as there was no premeditation. We were given this instruction from the judge in regard to premediation and first degree murder.

Unfortunately on the last day of the trial when we were going into deliberations, my grandfather took a turn for the worst and was not expected to live through the day - I was excused from the jury as a result.

I did meet up with my jury members after the trial as we had spent weeks together. They were charged guilty of first degree murder with life and a day at sentencing. I asked them the details and how they arrived at such a judgement. They said, it clinched it when one of the brothers said I went back and hit him in the head with the rock to make sure he was dead in his confession. This was after strangling the victim, getting in the car to leave him for dead. The few minutes to think that he needed to get back out of the car and hit him in the head - was the premeditation the jury felt was warranted for a verdict of guilty.

This was not a planned a murder - they started the day drinking beers with this friend who bought them drinks, they offered to take him for a drive as he wanted to go to the beach and they got angry at him along the way when a disagreement broke out in the car, they pulled over, pushed him out of the car and began to strangle him.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

T'Pring is Dead - Discussion by Brandon9000
Another Calif. shooting spree: 4 dead - Discussion by Lustig Andrei
Before you criticize the media - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Fatal Baloon Accident - Discussion by 33export
The Day Ferguson Cops Were Caught in a Bloody Lie - Discussion by bobsal u1553115
Robin Williams is dead - Discussion by Butrflynet
Amanda Knox - Discussion by JTT
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 04/25/2024 at 05:06:04