8-year-old Leiby Kletzky murder

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

When you say "kidnap" most people are going to think you mean to take off of the street by force, just as most people think that rape means to stick a dick into a female hole by force, but of course that is not how the law defines the terms, and we dont know that this boy was taken by force.

Who cares if he was taken by force or not? As you point out, that isn't necessarily an element of the crime of kidnapping.

hawkeye10 wrote:

We dont know yet do we.....

No, we don't. But that doesn't prevent some of us from irrationally speculating.

2 Replies

@joefromchicago,

In the absence of, say, a thrashing machine I'm inclined to believe accidental dismemberment is a stretch.

0 Replies

@joefromchicago,

Quote:

Who cares if he was taken by force or not? As you point out, that isn't necessarily an element of the crime of kidnapping.

If you had been reading my product over the years you would know that I care, because I allege that the laws of the American "Justice" system are often whack, and need to be reformed so that they conform to humanity...that is life as humans live it instead of as we do now writing law that conforms to the fantasies of the sadistic zealots whom are on a mission to force us all to conform to their will.

1 Reply

@Miller,

Leopold was also responsible for introducing education into the prisons (can't remember exactly how). I saw a documentary on it the other day. I had no idea he had done that or that he had gotten out of jail. Shows how depraved mankind can be.................only evil thinks of doing what they did.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

If you had been reading my product over the years you would know that I care, because I allege that the laws of the American "Justice" system are often whack, and need to be reformed so that they conform to humanity

But you're not arguing against a "whack" law, you're arguing against the public perception of the law that even you acknowledge is incorrect. Really, you're just being bizarre now.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

Quote:

But you're not arguing against a "whack" law, you're arguing against the public perception of the law that even you acknowledge is incorrect. Really, you're just being bizarre now.

I argue against sex offender lists, notifying the public of where ex cons live, the huge penalties of sex crimes, the massive criminalization of the erotic as well as the rest of our lives, the invasive methods used by the state to catch/entrap those who they want to get, and so on....I want the state to scale back the criminal code, to prioritize and to get the **** out of our lives unless absolutely necessary. This is bizarre in our law and order loving masochistic society, but I have never hidden the fct that I am a radical.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

So, in other words, you're taking this opportunity -- a situation involving kidnapping and murder -- to criticize laws that have nothing to do with kidnapping and murder. No, you're not a radical, you're just a dumbass.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

I think hawkeye is the recruiter for NAMBLA (The National Association of Marlon Brando Look-Alikes)

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Kidnapping is a "minor bad act?"

hawkeye10 wrote:

Of course not, but we dont know what happened here other than we are pretty clear that the alleged perp did not set out to kidnap anyone that day. This turned out very badly, but it might have started out pretty innocently, and it might be that the response to a missing boy had a part to play in this ending badly.

That is what the confessed murderer alleges.
The event became a kidnapping when he began to restrain his movement.
Until then, he was a guest.
If the boy had said "goodbye" and left peacefully unmolested,
then there 'd have been no kidnapping.

hawkeye10 wrote:

What did the posters say, did they claim that the boy had been kidnapped? Pushing people into a corner, and making sure that they know that this event is going to end very badly for them no matter what they do next has a way of making for a worse outcome. I doubt that any successful hostage negotiator would approve of this method of resolving the event.

Plausible, in light of what actually happened.

I can 't help remembering what happened to me,
when I was 6. My class in Catholic School was moven,
en masse, by school bus to another school,
for a fund raising event; carnival gambling. I lost.

Around 5 PM, thay threw us all out of there.
We had never been there before (somewhere in Queens, NY).
I had no idea where I was nor how to get home; (armed only with a pocketknife).
I wandered around aimlessly, walking until I eventually recognized
my surroundings and went home.

David

0 Replies

@Miller,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Thay said that there was no evidence of any sexual abuse,
which leaves his motive unidentified, except that he said
that he "paniced."

Perhaps, in time, he will be more forthcoming qua his reason.
It was with that sort of thing in mind that I always carried
a .38 revolver, when I was his age.

David

Miller wrote:

I don't think they've come to any real conclusion in this matter.
They're busy trying to put the entire body together. Must be quite a job for the ME.

It coud be possible that the lady, Diana, who lives across the street from me,
will do the job. She works for them; kind of a Quincy. She is very bright.
By a weird co-incidence, she worked on my friend, Lt. John Perry,
upon whom the World Trade Center collapsed,
on the very morning that he was submitting his retirement papers.
She was surprized to learn that I knew him.

David

0 Replies

Quote:

"This is not a story just about Brooklyn, New York. ... This is a story about every single family in America and throughout the world," he said. "It's about protecting our children doing whatever we can to make sure they're safe."

I think that says alot.

1 Reply

@Arella Mae,

Of course, we all cringe because we know this child suffered a brutal pointless death and we can somehow relate to what his family must be going through, but this is such a rare freaky incident that I don't think it should change the way we treat our children in terms of letting them grow-up. A child is far more likely to die at the hands of one his/her parents than a stranger. A child is more likely to die from unaffordable medical care in the US than be suffocated and butchered by some insane nobody. We all rally here with understandable shock, but children die every day from neglect, poverty and unsafe living conditions while most of us are silent - or if vocal it's usually to protest our tax money being spent on programs that will help them.

2 Replies

@Green Witch,

I certainly cannot disagree with a single word that you said. Right this moment, I can't think of anything more sad than the thought of a child being killed by a parent. We humans can certainly be inhumane.

1 Reply

@Arella Mae,

Yes, and I certainly wasn't just directing my comment to you Arella, as you are obviously a very compassionate person. It's just this news has become the talk of my town like few things ever do and I've even even heard the shocked opinions from one man who tried to eliminate funds for a local breakfast program for poor kids. It makes me rather frustrated that it takes a horror like this for people to even start looking at others with more caring.

1 Reply

@Green Witch,

I didn't take it personally. I agree that some horrible tragedy being what it takes for "some" to find compassion is a rather appalling thought.

0 Replies

@Arella Mae,

Arella Mae wrote:

Leopold was also responsible for introducing education into the prisons (can't remember exactly how). I saw a documentary on it the other day. I had no idea he had done that or that he had gotten out of jail. Shows how depraved mankind can be.................only evil thinks of doing what they did.

Leopold was also married, while in jail ( as far as I can recall ).

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Thay said that there was no evidence of any sexual abuse,
which leaves his motive unidentified, except that he said
that he "paniced."

Perhaps, in time, he will be more forthcoming qua his reason.
It was with that sort of thing in mind that I always carried
a .38 revolver, when I was his age.

David

He told his lawyer that he hears voices. Funny, his ex-wife said she didn't find anything unusual about him.

1 Reply

@Miller,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Thay said that there was no evidence of any sexual abuse,
which leaves his motive unidentified, except that he said
that he "paniced."

Perhaps, in time, he will be more forthcoming qua his reason.
It was with that sort of thing in mind that I always carried
a .38 revolver, when I was his age.

David

Miller wrote:

He told his lawyer that he hears voices.
Funny, his ex-wife said she didn't find anything unusual about him.

I 'd wager that he is a very unhappy man; very unhappy.
I wonder who are less happy: the perp or the victim's family.

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Thay said that there was no evidence of any sexual abuse,
which leaves his motive unidentified, except that he said
that he "paniced."

Perhaps, in time, he will be more forthcoming qua his reason.
It was with that sort of thing in mind that I always carried
a .38 revolver, when I was his age.

David

Miller wrote:
He told his lawyer that he hears voices.
Funny, his ex-wife said she didn't find anything unusual about him.

I 'd wager that he is a very unhappy man; very unhappy.
I wonder who are less happy: the perp or the victim's family.

The victim's family is very religious, so while they may be unhappy about the death of thei son, the Hasidic may consider what happened to their family to be some sort of sign from God. I don't know what that sign could be, but at least they have their religion to fall back on, as well as their comunity.

The attacker may be unhappy. But if he's insane, would he know that he'a unhappy? By the way, the attacker at one time was employed as a security guard.

1 Reply

@Miller,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Thay said that there was no evidence of any sexual abuse,
which leaves his motive unidentified, except that he said
that he "paniced."

Perhaps, in time, he will be more forthcoming qua his reason.
It was with that sort of thing in mind that I always carried
a .38 revolver, when I was his age.

David

Miller wrote:

He told his lawyer that he hears voices.
Funny, his ex-wife said she didn't find anything unusual about him.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I 'd wager that he is a very unhappy man; very unhappy.
I wonder who are less happy: the perp or the victim's family.

Miller wrote:

The victim's family is very religious, so while they may be unhappy about the death of thei son, the Hasidic may consider what happened to their family to be some sort of sign from God. I don't know what that sign could be, but at least they have their religion to fall back on, as well as their comunity.

Any ideas regarding social inter-action,
if he were released into the community, on bail ?

Miller wrote:

The attacker may be unhappy. But if he's insane, would he know that he'a unhappy?

Thay appear to be miserable, so far as I 've heard.

Miller wrote:

By the way, the attacker at one time was employed as a security guard.

He admits the murder, but denies any kidnapping
and he alleges that he was a good host, up to, but not including, the murder.
We 'll never know, but he alleges that the posters and the great search
paniced him.

1 Reply

8-year-old Leiby Kletzky murder

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