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A friend of ours hit our child - what should we do?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 12:59 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
I am not sure of that. I have heard of physical assault cases where the judge dismissed the case because provocation had been shown, even though the provocation was non-physical
This is a line that the feminists amoungst others are attempting to get adopted, that there is a bold black Sharpie line between physical aggression and all other forms of aggression. This suits the feminists political agenda to be sure, but there is no reasonable rational basis for it. Showing an adult who is boss by refusing to move so that the adult can get down is aggression, it is a power play, and what happened after needs to take into account that this kid decided to play a power game.
sozobe
 
  4  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 01:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
That shows way more intentionality than is indicated by odessitka's account.

My kid is generally very respectful and obedient, she listens and does what she's supposed to and doesn't do what she's not supposed to do. (Generally.) She sometimes just doesn't quite comprehend what's going on in the moment though, and will drag her feet. I can easily imagine her in this situation being involved in her surroundings and, not SEEING anything obviously emergency-ish (the adult was fine, the kid was fine, it was all potentialities and preferences) just not really getting it at first.

That's not a power play, that's an 11-year-old brain.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 01:05 pm
@wandeljw,
A quick Google search shows that provocation is not a very good defense for assault.

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal_injury/assault_battery.html#13

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/assault-and-battery-defenses.html

Quote:
Provocation - People often claim self-defense when they are actually just provoked. In general, provocation is not a defense for an assault and battery. Provocation can lessen your sentence, but it will almost never dismiss the charges. For example, an aggravated assault can be lowered to a normal assault if heavy provocation of the accused is shown.


Here's an article on provocation in the workplace, which discusses provocation, but the example they use is a physical provocation: http://www.skillsportal.co.za/page/features/contributors/ivan-israelstam/241902-Assault-does-not-always-merit-dismissal

I'm neither a lawyer nor a judge, though; I only know what I read on the Internet.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 01:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
A "power play" is not the same as physical assault, though.

An adult who can only respond to a "power play" from a child by physically attacking the kid is pretty pathetic, IMO.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 01:13 pm
@odessitka,
Welcome - I think I forgot to say that with all the hub bub - seeing/reading your responses you will do just fine here. And I mean that in a positive nice way.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 01:15 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
At the point where someone decides to take it to a physical assault, it is the other guy's fault. Being annoying, not obeying your parents, etc. is not against the law. Assaulting a child is against the law, and crosses a line that's pretty clear to most folks.


Well and might I add - there is huge difference between the actions of an 11 year old and a grown adult responsible for young children.

The adult should be acting responsibly even in the case of a child acting irresponsibly.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 01:17 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
An adult who can only respond to a "power play" from a child by physically attacking the kid is pretty pathetic, IMO.
And I am sure that you consider spanking to be a physical attack, be I am in favor of it. Sometimes kids need to be shown physically that tolerance for resistance to orders has limits, that if they throw down with their parents that they will lose. It is rare however that physical correction of other people's kids is apropreate.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 01:20 pm
@Linkat,
Quote:
The adult should be acting responsibly even in the case of a child acting irresponsibly.
Shocking deduction, considering that no one here categorically has supported an adult physically manhandling other peoples kids in this event, or in general.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 01:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
Why am I not surprised that you, of all people, are in favor of hitting children?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 01:33 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Why am I not surprised that you, of all people, are in favor of hitting children?
Maybe because a great many (MAJORITY?) people agree with me?
wayne
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 01:35 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
An adult who can only respond to a "power play" from a child by physically attacking the kid is pretty pathetic, IMO.
And I am sure that you consider spanking to be a physical attack, be I am in favor of it. Sometimes kids need to be shown physically that tolerance for resistance to orders has limits, that if they throw down with their parents that they will lose. It is rare however that physical correction of other people's kids is apropreate.


This is the same logic that results in the beating of protesters.
manored
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 01:43 pm
@wayne,
Sometimes protesters do need spanking though =)

Seriously. Disagreeing is one thing, ilegally disrupting other people's work/life because you think they are wrong is another. Not agreeing with the law is no excuse to disobey it.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 01:44 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Maybe because a great many (MAJORITY?) people agree with me?

That must be a novel sensation for you.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 01:52 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Examples?

And were they for a 38-year old man assaulting an 11-year old boy?


I could not find an online verification since the case is from the early 1980's. Maybe joefromchicago can help me with this. A popular Chicago baseball player was charged with punching a ten year old boy who bullied his son. The judge dismissed the case.

(since I don't have verification, I am not going to mention the ballplayer's name)
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 01:54 pm
@manored,
manored wrote:

Sometimes protesters do need spanking though =)

Seriously. Disagreeing is one thing, ilegally disrupting other people's work/life because you think they are wrong is another. Not agreeing with the law is no excuse to disobey it.


So protesters should be beaten?
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 02:05 pm
@DrewDad,
Am I the only one seeing the irony in Hawkeye using popularity as way to bolster his position?

The collective agrees with Hawkeye, therefore he must be right.

lulz
sozobe
 
  4  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 02:11 pm
@DrewDad,
Yes, I started to sputter about the rank hypocrisy (not just that but children's rights issues) but figured there was no point AND I'm afraid that this has already been a rough thread for odessitka, who seems interesting. (Welcome, odessitka!)
Arella Mae
 
  4  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 02:12 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

DrewDad wrote:

Why am I not surprised that you, of all people, are in favor of hitting children?
Maybe because a great many (MAJORITY?) people agree with me?


Someone on A2K told me something once I have never forgotten. If 50,000 people believe a stupid thing, it's still a stupid thing. I am NOT one of your majority.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 02:29 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Am I the only one seeing the irony in Hawkeye using popularity as way to bolster his position?

The collective agrees with Hawkeye, therefore he must be right.

lulz
you must learn to read...I was not justifying my opinion with popularity, I was guessing at the reaswon for your reaction to my opinion. I justify my position on spanking and manhandling children on the fact that it works, and that lack of aversity in life ruins humans, and that al high powered rfelationships are both combative and cooperative so I have no aversion to conflict....physical or otherwise.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 02:30 pm
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:
I could not find an online verification since the case is from the early 1980's. Maybe joefromchicago can help me with this. A popular Chicago baseball player was charged with punching a ten year old boy who bullied his son. The judge dismissed the case.

That would be the "dat kid had it comin' to him" defense. It is well-established in Cook County, although it is usually found in an extrajudicial context.

wandeljw wrote:
(since I don't have verification, I am not going to mention the ballplayer's name)

If it was a Cubs player, I'm surprised he didn't swing and miss a couple of times before connecting with the child.
 

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