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A friend of ours hit our child - what should we do?

 
 
odessitka
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 02:39 pm
@sozobe,
Thanks! Not rough, on the contrary, really interesting! I couldn't even imagine there are so many people out there who would care to reply - no matter what their reaction was. It's totally amazing to read all those posts where people assume I've exaggerated, or guess I didn't tell the whole truth, and present their opinions based on that. Or for example, I started wondering what makes people use offensive wording in their posts - does it make them feel better, or did they get angry about something I wrote? But they don't know me, so why would they care? Anyway, it's an interesting experience for me.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 03:02 pm
@odessitka,
It is not about you, this is a reqularly scheduled debate on child rearing and physical conflict in relationship.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 03:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
I think she knows it's not about her, but some have made or suggested some dishonesty on her part, and I can see why she would react in a personal way.

Also, hawk, you must give her the benefit of the doubt, because she is "new" on a2k, and wasn't expecting so many ways we have responded to her query.

Give her a break.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 03:18 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

wandeljw wrote:
I could not find an online verification since the case is from the early 1980's. Maybe joefromchicago can help me with this. A popular Chicago baseball player was charged with punching a ten year old boy who bullied his son. The judge dismissed the case.

That would be the "dat kid had it comin' to him" defense. It is well-established in Cook County, although it is usually found in an extrajudicial context.

wandeljw wrote:
(since I don't have verification, I am not going to mention the ballplayer's name)

If it was a Cubs player, I'm surprised he didn't swing and miss a couple of times before connecting with the child.


No need to be surprised. It was a White Sox player.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 03:21 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

engineer wrote:
... right now, he doesn't even know why he was pushed.

Probably because he's used to acting like a little **** and suffering no consequences because of it.
Ditto Ditto
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 03:23 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

PUNKEY wrote:
It seems excessive and brutal.

I'm a male, and I think it was excessive, brutal, and abusive.
But you weren't there, and even the eyewitness we have is spinning the story without complete success... Kids should learn that there are times to fiddle and fart around and times to get a move on, dammit...
manored
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 03:23 pm
@wayne,
wayne wrote:

So protesters should be beaten?
If they refuse to leave peacefully then the police comes and tells them to leave peacefully, yes they should.

To be honest, I hate protesters, at least the type that picks up signs, goes to the street and disrupt things. If you wanna change something, vote. If voting doesnt work because the system is flawed, start/join a revolution. If voting doesnt work because other people dont agree with you... well, either start advertising your cause (in non-disruptive manners) or suck it up and accept it. In no form of government will you be able to enforce something that the majority thinks its wrong, unless you intend to become a tyrant.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 03:28 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

That shows way more intentionality than is indicated by odessitka's account.

My kid is generally very respectful and obedient, she listens and does what she's supposed to and doesn't do what she's not supposed to do. (Generally.) She sometimes just doesn't quite comprehend what's going on in the moment though, and will drag her feet. I can easily imagine her in this situation being involved in her surroundings and, not SEEING anything obviously emergency-ish (the adult was fine, the kid was fine, it was all potentialities and preferences) just not really getting it at first.

That's not a power play, that's an 11-year-old brain.
You said it loud and clear... If you are in a mode of having to explain everything to your munchkin, and they will not do without a rational explanation, then when do you do when a building is about to fall on them and it is time to **** and git... Are you going to see them buried, or are you going to get buried with them because I know the feeling of being in a million dollar strain asking for help only to be told: I don't feel like it right now... Some times kids have just got to shut up and do what they are told... Period.
DrewDad
 
  4  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 03:42 pm
@Fido,
Fido wrote:
But you weren't there,

Nor were you, which makes me wonder why you even bother to point it out.
Fido wrote:
and even the eyewitness we have is spinning the story without complete success...

I'm sure that your imagined details are much more successful at spinning the story.
Fido wrote:
Kids should learn that there are times to fiddle and fart around and times to get a move on, dammit...

I doubt that there are very many folks that will disagree with you on that point. I certainly do not.

As Engineer said, though, if goofing around were enough to warrant corporal punishment, I'd never get anything else accomplished.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  6  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 03:42 pm
@Fido,
For sure. But it sounds like this was not a building-falling-on-anyone situation. The peril, if it existed, was in the guy's head. The parents didn't see the urgency (so urgency was not conveyed).

It sounds like it wasn't an actually scary/ emergency situation in any objective way (but the guy may have been disproportionately scared). (His realization that it was disproportionate may well have had something to do with how angry he was afterwards. Scared + embarrassed about being scared.)
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 06:04 pm
@sozobe,
Quote:
It sounds like it wasn't an actually scary/ emergency situation in any objective way (but the guy may have been disproportionately scared). (His realization that it was disproportionate may well have had something to do with how angry he was afterwards. Scared + embarrassed about being scared.)
Only some strong feeling of disapproval are based upon fear, and while it is disturbing how fast you jump to that conclusion ( thus displaying a well worn liberal bias) the bigger problem is that our OP seems not to have the slightest clue what was going through his head at the time. To find out she or hubby would need to have a conversation, which to this point they have been unwilling to do.
dlowan
 
  5  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 03:21 am
@hawkeye10,
Hawk and Fido are sadly fucked in the head,

Sozobe is not.


But you know that.


But spanking and shaking really suck.....harsh punishment is one of the known best ways to create criminals.


Perhaps your tolerance levels need a wee re-calibrate?


I love tolerance generally, but enough is enough.
Mame
 
  3  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 04:27 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

But spanking and shaking really suck.....harsh punishment is one of the known best ways to create criminals.


Shaking, I agree - bad idea. Spanking, not so much. I've only spanked my children twice each in their lives, and that was because they weren't listening and it was a safety issue. It was not a big deal - I didn't make a production out of it, and it was administered quickly and immediately. Neither of them even remember the incidents.

I think a well-timed age-appropriate spanking can do wonders for getting your kids to pay attention and listen to you. I think some ages are too early and some too late for spankings, so they're only useful for a limited time.

But I really do believe that part of the problem with kids today is that they have no healthy fear (for want of a better word) and respect for their parents, care-givers, etc. Everyone is so kid-centred today, which I think is really detrimental to them. Adult life does not mirror that, so it's a false state. We all know how annoying it is to have unruly kids ruining your dinner or what-have-you simply because the parents believe the kids should be allowed to be themselves without consideration of other people. That's just wrong.

I mostly gave my kids "the look" and used a certain tone of voice, plus nipped things in the bud so things didn't get out of control. Different kids respond to different methods, so blanket statements that "spankings are bad" are quite meaningless. I don't believe spankings are 'harsh punishments', depending upon the way they're delivered. They're a swat or two on the bum.
mags314772
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 06:54 am
@msolga,
I read that book too, and was thinking of it as I read this post. The event changed many lives and relationshps, just as this event has the potential to do
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 08:09 am
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:
But it sounds like this was not a building-falling-on-anyone situation. The peril, if it existed, was in the guy's head.


My wife once broke her foot when she missed a step walking down the stairs. The distance of the fall was only inches. The man possibly was afraid of breaking something if he fell off-balance.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 08:49 am
@wandeljw,
That's pretty unusual, though. I've missed steps many times without breaking my foot, or injuring anything but my pride.

At any rate, the point I was making is that while Fido is completely correct that children should immediately heed when their parents order them out of the way in an emergency situation, this did not appear to be an emergency situation. (Even the man's wife was apparently shocked at his response.)

The man may have been justified in his fear via some circumstance we are not aware of, but it sounds like the parents had no particular reason to think he was actually in extreme danger.
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 09:09 am
@sozobe,
An off-balance fall can cause a fracture no matter what the distance. It happens to professional athletes all the time.
JPB
 
  5  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 09:10 am
@odessitka,
The issue for the reader of a new topic is to fill in blanks to the best of their ability and try to give some feedback that could be helpful. The issue for the OP (original post[er]) is to give enough information to start the discussion but not so much that you get the response "TLDR" (too long, didn't read). It's a balancing act that results in exactly what you see here. You tried to give enough information in the beginning that would get the gist across. We, naturally, had questions or made assumptions to fill in some of those blanks.

As regular posters here, many of us have natural tendencies and inclinations in how we respond. You've been introduced to some of those. Mine is to try to understand both sides of the story even though we only have one storyteller. I can see how someone in the man's position could lose his cool given the circumstances we've been given. That does NOT mean that I condone his reaction or that I even yet have enough information to see that this setting makes his anger reasonable. That he became enraged is without question. That he over reacted is also, to me, without question. I'm still trying to get a feel for if the man is simply a lunatic or if, as engineer has supposed, he felt his own safety was in peril and (over)reacted to the situation.

One detail that we don't have is the knowledge of how long the man was left standing on the tree waiting for your son to react to the requests to get down. Another one is the tone of which the requests were made.

Quote:
He turned back and asked our son to get away and down to give him room to get down, too. Our son stopped but didn't get out of his way at once. He was having fun, and we had to tell him 2 more times, and then he obeyed.


If the three requests were made in a matter of a few seconds and the tone wasn't urgent then I think the man falls closer to the lunatic side of the scale. Who are the "we" that made the subsequent requests? If the kid is blowing off multiple requests from multiple adults and the tone is expressing some sense of urgency then I can see why he became enraged, particularly if he felt unsafe in any way.

Again, at this point in the discussion all of the gaps and details are moot. You came here asking about legal remedies and have decided not to pursue them (good decision, imo). Case closed from the standpoint of the OP. That the topic gives the rest of us fodder for additional discussion is simply par for the course.

BTW, welcome to A2K. Many of us came here originally with a specific question or topic of interest. The level of discussion here is what keeps many/most of us coming back.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 09:24 am
@Mame,
That is about the most level headed response I've heard.

Speaking of kids and how different kids respond to different methods - my youngest brother was a pain in the a$$ problem kid. Even spankings didn't work on him, he'd just laugh. Surprising he grew up to be the most even-tempered nothing in the world bothers him type.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 09:26 am
@sozobe,
True, you can twist your ankle walking on a straight even pavement with sneakers on...does that mean you get terrified every time your child walks?
0 Replies
 
 

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