27
   

A friend of ours hit our child - what should we do?

 
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 09:37 am
Slightly different take. From your description, your friend was scared, maybe really scared. He got himself out on that log and realized he was in over his head. This doesn't mean he was in real danger, only that he thought he was. Between him and safety was your child and your child was just standing there goofing off while his life hung in the balance. That doesn't in any way make his conduct correct or excusable, but I think the adrenaline was speaking and dropping him from your friend list is sufficient enough response.
JPB
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 09:43 am
@engineer,
I agree. I don't quite get the wanting him to be punished part. You or your husband could have smacked him in the mouth, I suppose. Not my choice on dealing with things, but I can sorta put myself in the man's place and understand the why's, if not the how's.

I might have ripped the kid a new one if I'd been scared out of my wits and the kid was being a twit. The pushing him down on the ground was beyond acceptable behavior, but I still don't see how getting him punished beyond the punishment of losing your friendship accomplishes anything.
0 Replies
 
PUNKEY
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 09:48 am
I suppose you are going to get a divided response here: men will say that the kid should have minded the FIRST time and gotten down and deserved a cuff or throwdown by an alpha male. (as it's done in the animal kingdom, see examples in gorilla, apes, elephants - the older males discipline the young males)

--- and then, you will hear from the females, who are shocked at the response. It seems excessive and brutal.

My husband taught middle school for 36 years. He never touched the kids - against the law - but would have been in that kid's face in a NY minute. The child was in danger and was not minding the adult in charge.

You can let this guy know that's not the way you discipline and your son can apologize for not minding the adult in charge.

PS - did you mention the age of this boy?


joefromchicago
 
  4  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 09:53 am
@odessitka,
odessitka wrote:

He didn't even say he's sorry, he was yelling at me and my husband that he didn't do anything wrong. His wife e-mailed with apologies later in the day, but not him, he won't apologize.

I must have missed the part where your son apologized for acting like a little ****. When did that happen?
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 09:58 am
@PUNKEY,
Quote:
Our 11 year-old son followed him, ...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 10:00 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

odessitka wrote:

He didn't even say he's sorry, he was yelling at me and my husband that he didn't do anything wrong. His wife e-mailed with apologies later in the day, but not him, he won't apologize.

I must have missed the part where your son apologized for acting like a little ****. When did that happen?
She sort of glossed over the spot where her kid might have been in the wrong... They only had to tell him two more times... Probable did not get to use the angry voice, yet...They never hit their child, you know... They are saints for living with a child who needs hitting, and while they can't seem to teach their own child the lessons he needs, they want to teach a grown man... If he was wrong then they might have to question their style of parenting... Can't have that happen...

I am so glad these people are not my friends... My kid may well be too much like theirs, but then, I try to not force her on others and expect them to accept her... She is also much better with others than she is on average with us... And that is normal, to be a **** around the people you feel comfortable with...
0 Replies
 
wayne
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 10:15 am
The media, reporting on this incident, sounds like a graduate of the Fox News school of journalism.

First we get the inflammatory headline, "friend hits our child", then we are treated to, "grabs him and throws him to the ground with all his might".

As Thomas pointed out, the headline is an embellishment, is the second description an embellishment also? I'm not inclined to trust the source much, after the first embellishment.
Are we even getting a reasonable description of the incident here? Just how much has been omitted or embellished here?

Sounds like it would be in the best interest of all parties involved, to simply end the relationship and move on.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 10:27 am
@wayne,
wayne wrote:

The media, reporting on this incident, sounds like a graduate of the Fox News school of journalism.

First we get the inflammatory headline, "friend hits our child", then we are treated to, "grabs him and throws him to the ground with all his might".

As Thomas pointed out, the headline is an embellishment, is the second description an embellishment also? I'm not inclined to trust the source much, after the first embellishment.
Are we even getting a reasonable description of the incident here? Just how much has been omitted or embellished here?

Sounds like it would be in the best interest of all parties involved, to simply end the relationship and move on.
Ditto.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 10:28 am
@wayne,
wayne, That's something I learned in working in management; don't trust only the one-sided story; there's always two-sides to every incident. That's a good lesson when we read newspaper articles or anyone makes a charge against another person who has committed some wrong.

People have a tendency to exaggerate when they tell their side of any story when they want to get a point across. Caution is the best policy.
engineer
 
  7  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 11:18 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

I must have missed the part where your son apologized for acting like a little ****. When did that happen?

It's possible that that never happened because the child was not acting that way and because he was assaulted before he every realized what the issue was. The perception of danger and the reality of it are sometimes completely different. From the admittedly one sided story here, the three adults on the ground weren't all that worried. An eleven year old acting foolish while standing on a tree trunk? Having to be told three times to stop being a fool? If that calls for a beat down I'd never get any rest. I'm sure if you explained that Mr. Joe was really scared and you really upset him by standing there and stopping him from getting down, the eleven year old would have been apologetic, but right now, he doesn't even know why he was pushed.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 11:24 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
... right now, he doesn't even know why he was pushed.

Probably because he's used to acting like a little **** and suffering no consequences because of it.
manored
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 11:33 am
@odessitka,
odessitka wrote:

I would like him to be punished, but I don't want him to pay fines or anything - that's too easy. If there was community work available or something like that for such cases, it would be great.
The incident is far too minor for you to get anything beyond fines. You would have a hard time even proving it happened.

dlowan wrote:

is your kid ok? That would have been scary. Is he having nightmares or anything?
Honestly, this nearly made me laugh! A 11 year old having nightmares over someone having pushed him down and yelled at him? If he did, that would be the lesser of his troubles, by far.

Lash wrote:

No apology would suffice for me. My children need to see that their parents will make choices to keep them safe. What would the kid think to see the parents socializing with a guy who attacked him? I'd never leave the room with my kids and that guy in it together. I can think of SEVERAL reasons why they should never socialize again.
Sounds like you would be teaching your kids to not seek understanding others and to not forgive.

cicerone imposter wrote:

wayne, That's something I learned in working in management; don't trust only the one-sided story; there's always two-sides to every incident. That's a good lesson when we read newspaper articles or anyone makes a charge against another person who has committed some wrong.

People have a tendency to exaggerate when they tell their side of any story when they want to get a point across. Caution is the best policy.
This is s0 much true. You can never trust a story such as this when you hear only one side. So much that some posters, knowing this, chose to take the unusual road and assume that the poster is biased, rather than right.

Off course, assuming the poster is biased is just as bad as assuming she is not.

I would advise on trying to understand what really happened. Why did the man do that, so unusually?

Maybe it could be a good idea to ask a common friend, or something of the sorts, to act as an impartial judge, to listen to both sides and present an opinion.
shewolfnm
 
  4  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 11:33 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

That was one hell of an over-reaction. ---------

I'd also be having a chat with him about his behaviour. It didn't warrant such a reaction, but he was thoughtless.


First.. Im not at all arguing with DL on this one. I agree with her completely..
but I did want to pick out a point so I grabbed her words. ..



If i am stuck precariously in a tree... and I have to ask a kid to move 3 times because HE doesnt think HE has to obey what he is asked , especially when it involves someone being stuck in a tree, I would be pissed too. Sorry. I would.
I should not have to ask a kid 3 times to have them ignore my request and just keep playing.

Does this mean I would throw them down? Oh hell no. that IS over reacting. But , when I got down I would make a bee line to that child and let him /her know that I dont appreciate one BIT that they would ignore my request like that. That was rude and uncalled for from them. I would definitely tell them that. No way around that.
But I would not be screaming, or throwing them around that is just not necessary.

I know kids ignore requests and orders. yup. They do. Thats a kids natural behavior... but I think he has the right to be upset about it and a right to speak his mind, but he had NO RIGHT to put his hands on that child.
I do not think his being angry was an over reaction at all. But I do think the hands on stuff was WAAAYYY out of line.
odessitka
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 11:40 am
@cicerone imposter,
@ Cicerone imposter and EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS FORUM,

Folks,
I really appreciate you all took time to reply and participate in this discussion - I didn't expect that much feedback - thank you!
Regarding two sides of the story - I agree, but I don't see what good it would do if I wrote here and didn't tell all the truth. I might have just as well fantasized in my head, and imagine all the answers I wanted to get. It doesn't make any sense! I'm not a forum person, so I thought an anonymous forum is the place where people share their stories and problems from the heart because they want a truthful opinion of others. I didn't tell the end of the story because I thought it would be too long. I didn't tell that my husband confronted the man right away, and didn't proceed to a fight only out of respect for two women and five kids present. I didn't tell that his wife was in tears and kept asking him what's gotten into him all the way back to the parking lot. I totally forgot to tell that neither the man or my son was in danger at any point on that log, it wasn't that high.
To those of you who called my son **** and twit: no offense, but I just laughed. I'm the strictest mom of all our friends, my kids are always the first to be punished. They are taught respect and politeness from birth, they never ever get away with anything. If I don't hit my kids, it doesn't mean I'm not strict or don't teach them anything. My son is still upset about the incident and thinks it was all his fault. The daughter of the man involved, on the other hand, never says 'thank you' or 'please', never listens to her parents, and gets away with everything. Her mom just keeps sighing every time she does something wrong. Their 2-year-old son pushes and grabs toys from our 2-year-old daughter, and on the trip I've described he tried to hit her with a stick several times. We had to watch them every second because his parents didn't even look. Just to give you an insight about their parenting skills, if you think I'm evil or an awful parent or am trying to put a man in jail for nothing (btw, we decided to not do anything serious, just end the relationship, and the man still hasn't apologized). To those who said I've embellished the title and called it 'hitting' instead of 'minor assault' or 'grabbing the child from behind and throwing to the ground': I apologize for a misleading title, I just thought it would be too long. Besides, I'm not a native English speaker.
Again, thank you very much, all of you!
DrewDad
 
  4  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 11:47 am
@PUNKEY,
PUNKEY wrote:
It seems excessive and brutal.

I'm a male, and I think it was excessive, brutal, and abusive.
wayne
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 11:47 am
@manored,
Quote:
I would advise on trying to understand what really happened.


You might of stopped here.

Quote:
Why did the man do that, so unusually?


Do what?
The description we got sounded like a move straight off of Monday Night Raw.
What a horrifying scenario. It's a wonder the kid survived.
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 11:48 am
@shewolfnm,
Quote:
But I do think the hands on stuff was WAAAYYY out of line.
We already know that the OP exaggerates, so I would want to know what really happened before I agree with the "WAAAYYY"....if the kid routinely pulls this messing with adults and causing danger and if he does it for thrills and if I know that the parents dont have it in them to see the problem or deal with it and if I know that the only way to get this kids attention is to shake he up a bit I would be very tempted to take him by the collar and give him a good lecture. We dont know that there was any intent for the kid to end up on the ground. Certainly what happened was wrong, the guy should have gone to the parents and demanded action and if the parents refused then the friendship should be reexamined, but I tend to forgive people when they make poor choices while under stress, because I know I sometimes do as well.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 11:57 am
@manored,
Adding other people's opinion about this incident isn't always helpful. We judge things by what each side says, how dependable they are when they speak, and their body language.

I think odess eventually explained herself very well, but it took many posts before we learned what happened during and after this incident.

This is a lesson in of itself; I believe we have learned something from this thread.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 11:58 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
An eleven year old acting foolish while standing on a tree trunk? Having to be told three times to stop being a fool? If that calls for a beat down I'd never get any rest.

Amen.

For better or worse (I happen to believe much better, considering some of the stories I've heard about my grandfather), the days when you could simply beat your kids into submission are fading.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 11:59 am
@shewolfnm,
shewolfnm wrote:

I know kids ignore requests and orders. yup. They do. Thats a kids natural behavior... but I think he has the right to be upset about it and a right to speak his mind, but he had NO RIGHT to put his hands on that child.

Agreed. My guess is the guy in this case never explained why he was upset. To this day it is probably a mystery, but I'm pretty certain it is not because the child did not respond to his parents' orders fast enough. If that were the case, this guy would have been in jail long ago. My guess is that he was scared and he will never admit that, not then and not now, and there can be no apology without it so it is not going to happen.
 

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