What would your gut be telling you?

@chai2,

I was trying my best to to side with you that being a pedophile has nothing to do with being homo or not. I even pointed out it is the same amount of men on both sides and then you attack me for trying to be on your side.

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The thing to me, chai, is, only you saw what you saw. (Well, the mother saw it). The ones responding negatively here are reacting to words and suggestions, but not allowing your firsthand experience to lead, until it is proven faulty. Believing you saw something amiss and the mother, the other eyewitness, concurs, is the important part of the story.

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@edgarblythe,

Maybe Chai should have used a blog format rather than a discussion format.

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I don't think she objects to discussion, but instead to distortion of what she wants to convey.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

distortion of what she wants to convey.

The original post is Chai's. All people have to go on is her description.

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@saab,

saab wrote:

I was trying my best to to side with you that being a pedophile has nothing to do with being homo or not. I even pointed out it is the same amount of men on both sides and then you attack me for trying to be on your side.

Well then, why didn't you say something like "As chai said...." or
"As chai has mentioned several times...." or even "As some have already said here..."

Your saying that, with no background, without stating/acknowledging that the original poster has said this (in one form or another multiple times) is like you are bring up some fresh fact, that no one has mentioned before.

In no way did anything in that post indicate you were agreeing with me.

I somehow can't imagine you writing something like "I agree with chai in saying that there is no relation to homosexuality and being a pedophile." and when you wrote it, I doubt you had any such thought that you were writing it to agree with me.

So saab, are you saying you agree with me that I have made it very clear, multiple times, that this thread is not about homosexuality (or at least I didn't make it about homosexuality), and the reason it was mentioned in the original post was because, as I said, I was was trying to present as full a picture of what happened, including description of all the players, as possible?

Is that what you're saying Saab?

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:
distortion of what she wants to convey.

The original post is Chai's. All people have to go on is her description.

Exactly.
If someone wrote a post describing how they personally saw a room. No one would say "Well, you say that one wall was blue, but if you stood at a certain angle, it might look yellow." If I said there were 6 orange monkeys in the room, and 2 of them were 6 inches shorter than the other 2 and the other 4 where all 62 inches tall, no one would start to talk about how one of the monkeys was 76 inches tall.

No, you would take their description as the information available, as how it looked.

Just as I naively expected someone to realize they were not standing there, they could not see the exact interplay of atoms in someone face, or hear the exact vibrations formed in their throat, but would accept, for discussions sake that is what happened.

My question as to gut feeling was based on the trying to see what I saw, and not add stories of their own design.

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@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

ehBeth wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:
distortion of what she wants to convey.

The original post is Chai's. All people have to go on is her description.

My question as to gut feeling was based on the trying to see what I saw, and not add stories of their own design.

people didn't all 'see' what you 'saw' based on your description

in some cases, it appeared that they couldn't see anything based on your description - in others they seemed to try to add something to try and make sense of your description - others said maybe they might have seen something in your description

maybe too many words in the original, maybe too few, maybe there wasn't anything to see

no one except for the two described original characters will ever know

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Chai and I have different takes sometimes, but I always listen to her (as I said somewhere some pages ago) whether or not I agree.. I envision what several others have said re their own first takes, and they make sense to me too.
None of us were there, but Chai and the mother on separate occasions. But we still don't know, conjecture city.

I can understand Tsar's reaction and am unhappy with a tossed out assumption by Chai. I'm so crusty old I remember California as homophobic, not to mention my religion at the time. Even myself, looking back, another story, forty years past, something about the word deviant. And homophobes remain abundant, should be talked back to.
I don't think Chai is, but can see taking the post that way.

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@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

Just as I naively expected someone to realize they were not standing there, they could not see the exact interplay of atoms in someone face, or hear the exact vibrations formed in their throat, but would accept, for discussions sake that is what happened.

My question as to gut feeling was based on the trying to see what I saw, and not add stories of their own design.

this makes it seem more like you were hoping people would see what you saw and would have the same gut reaction.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

I think this is probably the truest thing you've posted in the thread.

chai2 wrote:
I attempted to describe the scene, to a major fail.

Whether it's what you saw, or how you described it, the majority of posters don't seem to have come to the same conclusion you seemed to have come to.

Why not just roll with that? Why get so heated up about it? You asked people what their gut would tell them - did you expect everyone to agree with you? You've certainly had folks disagree with you on all kinds of things. Why was this so different?

If you didn't want to hear different opinions, why ask people to tell you what they would think?

You're right ebeth. I shouldn't get so heated up.

But, what is heating me up is not the fact people may disagree with me.

What is eating my lunch is this gay thing, being told I've set the gay movement (whatever that is) back a hundred years. Being told I've thrown napalm on something and then threw a match.

It is the ignorance, and yes, the ignorance, of those who choose to fixate on one word, and one word alone, and it's all they can see.

I said that one guy was balding.

No one has come by and told me I have made it that much harder for mean who have lost, or are loosing their hair, to feel good about themselves. Why hasn't someone said "Maybe that man really has a head full of hair, and was just wearing a very good cap that made him look that way."
Why hasn't anyone jumped on me sayng "Not all balding men are pedophiles you know."

In fact, it was someone other than me who actually said that must have made him less attractive.

That's what's heating me up.

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@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

I think what upset her - was so many were accusing her of associating gays with pedophiles.

Which and since I count so much at work, I'm not going to do (it may be above my ability to count s well) - she has numerous times said she did not mean to do. It is as if the one initial account was a listing of her observations and then everything else was ignored. Including the number of accounts that she and I tried to point out was not her intention.

Has it clicked yet?

Thank you Fish.

Is that so hard people?

1 Reply

@chai2,

Yes, I'll agree that you didn't equate homosexuals with pedophilia.

But you called a poster arguing with you homosexual, when you know nothing about him except that he reacted in defense of homosexuals being suspected of pedophilia. Calling him out was a taunt, and as a taunt it is self explaining, mostly about you.

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I don't know what my gut would be telling me unless I'd been there to pick up all the nuances, but I strongly believe everyone should listen to their gut and act appropriately, whatever that may entail.

What you witnessed would have been a challenge for anyone to have described well enough for others to get your sense of it, I think. It was something that happened that bothered you for some unknown reason, and you felt compelled to share it. Nothing wrong with any of that. I think we're just not able to grasp the nuances.

But then the discussion veered off into homosexuals vs pedophiles, etc., and the point was lost.

I can sometimes tell if someone's a homosexual (sometimes it's very obvious - ie, tight electric blue vinyl pants, a lisp, lots of drama and a hand-flop), but other times I have no idea. I work with a psychiatrist who, it turns out, is a lesbian. I only know this because she mentioned "partner", then "her"... turns out she has short hair, doesn't wear makeup, and dresses in trousers. Well, lots of women look like that and it doesn't even occur to me, yet it is often the way many lesbians present themselves. I also have two long-time male friends who are asexual and so many people have asked me if they're gay. One's a chef and the other is an electrician. I always say, "I have no idea!", but they're not. They're not interested in either gender. I'm usually just oblivious, actually. And anyway, these days, nobody even asks much anymore. It just doesn't matter. Paedophiles, on the other hand, can look like and be anybody at all - how would you spot them?

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

But you called a poster arguing with you homosexual, when you know nothing about him except that he reacted in defense of homosexuals being suspected of pedophilia. Calling him out was a taunt, and as a taunt it is self explaining, mostly about you.

No, that definately was not a taunt.

If I were to taunt someone it would be more like "everyone knows you eat your own boogers" because that would be something (I least I would hope) that you would be ashamed of, and is demoralizing.

Why would saying someone is gay be a taunt, if neither one of you find any shame in being gay?

For me, it was more of a "oh come on now" thing. Like "duh"

No more than if I were arguing a point about feminism, and someone said "Well, of course, you're a woman"

Yeah, I'm a woman. It's pretty obvious. So what?

Actually, since you're the one assumining anyone is taunting, it says volumes about you.

You thought I was taunting you about how to find food for instance, when I was dead serious.

Oh, you're welcome by the way, since I was the one who suggested you go to a food bank, which you later took interest in when someone else brought it up again.

Now that remark was a taunt, and a pretty darn good one.

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

this makes it seem more like you were hoping people would see what you saw and would have the same gut reaction.

And we have a winner.

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@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

joefromchicago

yay we have a loser!

1 Reply

@chai2,

I have never once considered that tsar might be gay. I've never even thought about it. He mostly talks about movies and books and art.

What makes you say that it's "obvious" that he is?

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@chai2,

I was told I would have the last word.

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@boomerang,

wow boom, talk about putting someone in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

You really want to go there?

If I don't respond to this dense question, I'm a coward.

If I do respond, that's only the beginning of a shitstorm the likes of which have never been seen.

In fact, the mere fact you asked has pretty much fucked me over.
I suppose that wasn't obvious to you either.

Thanks!

I wish we still had the poll option, because now we can all vote on whether Chai is a coward or is just starting 30 more boring pages of people saying "well, I just don't know how you could say that, it's never been obvious to me."

I vote that I'll get an equal amount of votes for both.

You know, I was actually doing some book work in another file, and was thinking about how bitchy I'm being. Not really feeling bad, but actually wondering how some dense people caused me to feel that way.

Thanks for showing me my bitchiness at least isn't of the snake in the grass variety.

At least I have that going for me.

Signing off.

1 Reply

What would your gut be telling you?

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