What would your gut be telling you?

So anyway, I was at the pool and saw someone maybe look at someone funny.

Ahhhh.....that's very interesting.

Why would you feel guilt if your impression is wrong?

Maybe it's because, my entire life (and I've said this here before) so many people have told me "You're nothing like what I first thought" The followup to that has invariably been that what they now know I'm like is quite good.

I've always laughed when people say that. It gives me a lot of pleasure, because I think it's funny. I certainly wouldn't want them to feel guilty over it. Actually, I hope someone finding out their initial impression of me was wrong gives them a lot of pleasure too.

What about if your initial impression of someone is that they are quite nice, and you later learn they are in fact very very unpleasant?

Do you feel guilty that your first impression of them was positive, and you were wrong?

Much better although I'm now perplexed that you failed to describe the water in the pool and whether there was a vast amount of chlorine. And what color was the itself? were there ladders and steps to exit or just ladders or just steps? I won't be able to rest until I know what the pool actually looked like and what size pool it was. Was there any foliage near it? What kind?

As to the earlier, I spoke at times out of turn (inappropriately) but am quite concerned to the well being of the child. As I said, even though there wasn't anything this time that doesn't say the same 4 (the men that caused you concern and the father and son) won't be there again and that you won't be and if they are adept at this (done it before) one may distract the father as the other takes the boy. Any time you think there may be an issue, it should be addressed. Even if the boy's father gets angry that you are interfering it will cause him to keep a sharper eye.


This is the sensitive queer sighing off (and signing off as well) (for now)

You're instincts could be right.

But my experience would lead me to think that maybe they're expecting a baby. I know a gay couple who are expecting via surrogate and they are positively dopey about all kids right now; they make "regular" expecting couples look sane. I'm sure that's because it is so difficult for gay men to start families, even via adopting through foster care.

Maybe they're just looking forward to having their own kid to take to the pool and that's why they noticed the cute kid and his dad.

I can only guess how much queer hate you have been through, Sturgis, but I don't think that is on Chai's screen, I know her better than that - though I'll admit there is plenty of hate running around even now. My second serious lover turned out to be gay (no one will believe me about how good it was, in itself a kind of fear), back when quiet was mandatory.

I don't have any idea re the data re child molesting, broken down to age groups, re who does all that.

Don't assume the rest of us wallow in ignoramosity.

good point.

I also think it's wise to trust one's instincts, as you know, chai, and that includes not speaking to the father. I think it's smart to keep one's eyes (and in your case, ears as well) open to what's going on around you. Nobody here can say whether your impressions/instincts were valid, and perhaps you can't either, for a while.

I, too, found the fact that ILG is Mexican irrelevant, especially when you mentioned that point because you rarely see Mexican and white gay couples, but later you indicated you thought they were interested in the boy, so since they're probably not gay, it's doubly irrelevant what his nationality was. I don't think homosexuality and paedophilia are on the same page.

Doesn't matter anyway - you are the story-teller and you tell it however you want. We can always skip over the bits we don't think are pertinent.

First, I agree with Mame, homosexuality and pedophilia are not on the same page. Actually, most of the pedophiles I've heard about in my town are straight. At any rate, that is not what I thought about when I read the story.

I thought ILG and BFWG were probably a gay couple, and ILG may have been watching the little boy because the boy reminded him of his own child. (I know a couple of gay fathers who don't get to see their kids very often.)

I also think our "gut reactions" sometimes reveal more about our own experiences than the actual truth. That may well be the case with my reaction.

i will pick this point for a moment...
what is commonly ' well built' fine looking men do not attract me at all, nor does it attract a LOT of my female and gay male friends either. It is a type of person and not everyone is into it.


(moving to another point)

im wondering why they were targeting them. I dont think it was sexual. but, that is my idea for now . I will sit on that

it helps to explain cultural behaviors.

For example, here where people from mexico number in the thousands, to say 'mexican' implies a lot. How they speak, where they may shop, and when describing how a man is looking at someone, again... is cultural. Mexican men are very aggressive with their personal stares, especially when it comes to women. They are not ashamed to watch a woman, no mater what is going on, even in front of their wives. It isnt rude as it is for the american man, it is cultural.... ( just an example)

some good points
boom
mame
eva

ok, addressing one at a time, and take all this with the fact it's obviously impossible to express something exactly as to the impression they were giving. I'm thinking if anyone had been present with me, you would more than likely agree with what I'm going to say. However, since you couldn't actually see any of this, I'm realizing some of it is impossible.

If I were a writer and writing a book, I could take pages describing, thinking of the exact right phrase to paint the picture, the turn of the lip, the way one moved his hand through his hair...A good writer could take the time to do all this, and it would take up an entire chapter.

I was trying to do as much as I could, but obviously can't explain it all. It was all with the intention of putting it all out there.

However, sturgis (and I think he was joking, I'm pretty sure he was joking at the end) saying it was better when I just said "I think maybe I saw someone give someone a funny look" or joe from chicago saying this wasn't worth his nickel (not my problem joe) are people who are saying they just need the bare bones. Well, no, you need more than that. I decided to put as much as possible I could recall, and if anyone found it irrelevant, they can disregard, or, as I've said a few times now, it was painting the entire scene.

However, I will get to a point where I'll show that I did think certain things called irrelevant, in my mind, were.

Starting with boom...yes, that's a good point, and idea. Thanks.
However....what you would have seen if you'd been there, was not an old married couple, or even a newly married (partnered) couple. I'm not even going to try to explain, but honestly, this was not 2 people who had some steady/permanent/household relationship. This wasn't some committed couple who were looking forward to a baby.
BTW, there were LOT's of kids there. The little boy was hardly the only one there, and many of the others were just as cute. There were also other dads with kids, and since Eva has alluded maybe there weren't gay (yes, I'm 99.99% sure they were) there were plenty of women there with their cute kids.

I'm not going to mince words here, or defend the "but all gays aren't like that" but a lot of gay guys are just fine with hooking up with someone for a quick ****, or a few quick fucks. If anyone says that's not true, you're naive. A lot of gays want, or eventually want a committed relationship. A lot of gays don't, or don't want it now.
The reason I bring this up is again, I don't believe at all this was a long term couple looking for a baby. Even though there was a lot of that unspoken communication, they weren't that much in tune.

That leads to what mame was saying about the mexican/white thing being irrelevant. Like I said before at some point writing this thread, I had to admit to myself that perhaps they were more like partners, meaning looking for the same thing, a common goal. The combination of these 2 men was somewhat uncommon. Sometimes people with a common goal, who don't have a lot in common themselves, hook up.

Simply put, from the way these individuals spoke with each other, even though there was an understanding, I don't believe this was a love match.

eva, I expressed as clearly as I was able that there is not a connection between sexual interest in a child and homosexuality. Again, and I know I'm repeating myself, which is frustrating, but I was trying to present what my eyes were seeing. No more than that. Again, if I left that out, calling it irrelevant, than what else would I leave out, and what else, until it became "I maybe saw something strange today. Maybe I don't know if I did or didn't, let's discuss." Then I'd get questions until all these things came out anyway. I thought (think again) I was maybe saving some time, and saving even more time by stating that was my intent, by telling everything I saw.

I don't believe this dad type guy gave either one of them the eye. I don't believe that he accidently/unwittingly gave them the eye, and these 2 guys thought he was interested. I don't believe these 2 guys were interested in persuing a straight dad, which I believe the dad was.
These 2 guys were not unattractive. They were less attractive than the really handsome guy, but they were more handsome than the dad. Just because one of them was balding doesn't make him unattractive. The mexican guy actually was pretty good looking. Not a knock out, but good looking.

This story could be identical, but the 2 guys I described could very well have been 2 straight guys, who if asked could have said they came to the pool together to hang out before going out to the bar later.
If I thought they were straight guys, I would have said it. Again.....If I thought they were straight guys, I would have said it....and no one would have said that was irrelevant.
If that had been the case, and the rest of it played out the same, nothing would have changed. I still would have wondered why one of them was staring at me for being in the pool early, and I would have heard one say to the other "I see you looking" probably with a different tone. I still would have turned to see they were looking in the direction of the dad and kid.

I still would have noticied them looking that way when the dad and kid walked in front of them. I still would have noticied, and would have recognized them again.

Very good point - that had not occurred to me.

OK, so what was your gut telling YOU, Chai?

What would your gut be telling you?

Feed me, Seymour (which is odd because that's not my name)

Well, mainly what I said at the end of my initial post.

I do know I will notice if I ever see ILG or BFWG again. My gut tells me it's right to notice them again.

My gut tells me to watch them, that they are of suspecious character.

Calamity Jane mentioned "subconcious" before.

I'm a firm believer that what some people call their subconscious are things they do know are there, but do not want to acknowledge.

I think many of us have been trained from birth to not trust our guts, to find excuses for what is in front ouf our eyes, and so that ability is regulated to this excuse of "it was in my subconscious, I couldn't help it"

Whenever I hear someone say "oh, it was probably nothing" I decide that's the very thing I should watch.

Our "subconscious" contains details that are both real and imaginary. Details from fiction we have read or movies we have seen also reside in our subconscious.

I think I'm very good at filtering out the imaginary, and keeping the potential.

also, I can control when and if I take action on my judgements.

Just because one formulates judgements (good or bad), suspections about something does not mean they are acted on.

Sometimes the judgement arrived at is that further observation is needed.

I don't understand why people consider judgements and suspections a bad thing, expect that so many people are afraid of, like you, feeling guilty if it turns out to be false (which makes no sense if you never acted on, or the person was unaware of your suspections) or that it means they must let the object of there judgements know what they are thinking.

Personally, I think it's sort of sad that we are supposed to not trust ourselves, or experience, our judgement.

Otherwise, what good is our past, if we haven't learned from it?

It's not, to me, a matter of thinking negatively about everyone, or a matter of thinking positively about everyone.

It's a matter of seeing what is there.

What was in front of my eyes that day was suspectious, because when I zoomed through my mental rolodex of all the possible scenerios of what was going on, the questionable ones over rode the innocent ones. Not to say one of the few innocent scenerios isn't the correct one, but I'm no more going to jump to the conclusion that everything was ok, no more than I've jumped to the end conclusion its not ok.

There's enough not ok factors to warrant further watching.

Ok, not to sound full of myself, but isn't it possible wandell, that I'm much better at reading people and actions than others are?

I suck at being able to program a cell phone, or understanding the rules of any sports game, but maybe I'm really good at reading people.

I won't claim that you are always right, Chai, and I have yelled/snarked at you in the past - now there's a song in that, re remember the snark - but I always listen.

The person may not know what my impressions were, but I may behave unfriendly toward that person, and then, if my impressions were wrong, I may have missed out on a good friendship.

But can you control your behavior, regardless of your feelings?

We all do that, all the time.