Osama Bin Laden is dead

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Well since the original contrary proposition can't be proven either, and we are faced with the necessity of a pragmatic choice, it appears the results so far suggest we made the right and most effective choice.

No, the original assertion didn't depend on a causal analysis, and so we're not faced with any kind of "pragmatic choice" (nice bureaucratic doublespeak for "let me pull something out of my ass" -- your years as a government employee obviously paid off). We could simply count the number of terrorists we have captured (that shouldn't be too hard) and compare that number to the number of Guantanamo detainees who have been released and who have then gone on to become terrorists. No counterfactual analysis needed. Easy peasy.

georgeob1 wrote:

I suppose liberal closet authoritarians find this line of reasonong difficult.

I would hope that everyone would find that line of "reasoning" difficult.

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
You mean like the British assassinations of IRA men 30 years ago?
Y do u characterize them as being "assassinations"??
Do u deny that a state of war existed between them ?

No more or less than exists now with respect to Bin Laden's organization.

Are you trying to make a distinction?

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@joefromchicago,

Do you know if - legally - "burial at sea" involves wrapping up the body in a sheet and dropping overboard, or is there an anchor / chain wrapped around as well? Air France just managed to bring up its lost plane's flight recorders from 14,000 ft after searching a grid of thousands of sq. miles.

http://media.timesleader.com/images/300*222/France_Brazil_Plane_Crash__ljone_05-02-2011_0SHOCM0.jpg

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Quote:

Bin Laden and his organization made war on the United States, and did so before 2001. In war, taking out the enemy leadership is a reasonable tactic.

Really, before 2001? Let's consider just how long the US has been making war against ME countries. Let's start with the overthrow of a democratically elected leader in Iran in the early 1950s.

Oh wait, what am I talking about - you're the A2K historian, aren't you Set?

I wonder how it was that a historian of your stature missed the half century of terrorism, war crimes, etc that the US has committed against numerous ME countries.

Quote:

The only plausible objection i can think of is that it was done in Pakistan, and i personally would consider such an objection nugatory given that Pakistan hosts terrorists,

Pakistan "hosts" terrorists. There's that balanced approach again, that Setanta applies to all his "historical" treatises.

All hail the historian!

1 Reply

@farmerman,

When I first heard the news, my first thought was, "wow, we are going to see ignorance taken to levels that only Americans have so many times taken them to in the past".

Remember the Maine, Farmer!

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@JTT,

Stop typing you dimwit! Start reading: Osama's declaration of war posted on previous page: http://able2know.org/topic/171502-10#post-4594237

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@Setanta,

Quote:

Good . . . putting him on trial would have given him a stage from which to rant. Do you believe that a trial would have acquitted him?

Eorl is discussing, "justice, American style" and you leap up and prove his point, Setanta.

Who ever said that you're dumb as a sack of hoe handles?

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

A rather tortured and hypothetical rationalization. However, if it pleases you ...

Not in the slightest, George. I mean, surely you weren't implying that the closing of Gitmo meant that we would be releasing all those prisoners? That sort of cuts at your proposition that Obama was screwing this up somehow with his insistence that the Gitmo be closed.

Cycloptichorn

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@Phoenix32890,

Quote:

I'm not from Missouri, but I believe in "show me"!

Sure you do, Phoenix, sure you do.

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Quote:

The intelligence official said the DNA match, using DNA from several family members, provided virtual certainty that it was bin Laden's body.

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20110502/US.Bin.Laden.DNA/

As I was speculating earlier......

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

Quote:

Much thought has been given to that over the last ten years.

A flat out lie, JW! In point of fact, I've never heard any sort of reflection from you or any other American on any of the numerous instances of terrorism and mass murder committed by the US over the last century.

Noam Chomsky points out that around 70% of Americans, [I forget when this was for] felt that Vietnam was "immoral", yet, he points out, you never hear that from anyone. The national thought expressed and left unchallenged, is that it was an honest but regrettable mistake. Mostly the "mistake" was spending so much.

You never, ever, hear any expressions of regret over the vast numbers of innocents killed. It's always, "oh, our poor troops". Those poor troops are in Iraq and Afghanistan supporting illegal invasions; an illegal invasion is a war crime.

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@High Seas,

High Seas wrote:

Do you know if - legally - "burial at sea" involves wrapping up the body in a sheet and dropping overboard, or is there an anchor / chain wrapped around as well?

I don't think that's so much a legal matter as it is a religious or practical matter. Fortunately, I've never had to dispose of a body at sea -- at least not intentionally.

1 Reply

@sozobe,

Funny, I never took you for a ghoul, Soz.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Quote:

You mean like the British assassinations of IRA men 30 years ago?

This is a terribly dumb argument to make [relax, it's Gob, after all] when everyone you point to isn't as bad as your own self, Gob.

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@High Seas,

Hello, Liar.

I'm off ignore, am I?

0 Replies

I can think of:

1. Al Qaeda was involved with the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, the late Prime Minister of Pakistan and the wife of the current Prime Minister. You can't make trouble especially in the country you are hiding. There is a saying that criminals should not operate in areas they live in. Osama broke that rule.

2. There was probably pressure put on the Royal Family of Saudi Arabia who supports the Wahhabis who are the root cause of Islam fundamentalism. Osama was beginning to be more than an embarrassment so probably they kinda let Osama be thrown under the bus. If another 'Osama' comes along think of getting rid of the Saudi Royal Family and the Wahhabis.

3. Osama was GWB's buddy that is why the Republicans never tried to get him. Whenever GWB was low in the polls Osama issued a new threat.

1 Reply

@talk72000,

Quote:

. Al Qaeda was involved with the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, the late Prime Minister of Pakistan and the wife of the current Prime Minister. You can't make trouble especially in the country you are hiding. There is a saying that criminals should not operate in areas they live in. Osama broke that rule.

Not if the INI wanted Bhutto eliminated, which was the allegation.

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@hawkeye10,

Pretty fast DNA test. Gotta hit the propaganda skillet while its hot.

2 Replies

@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

Thomas, you were there, eh? Tell us all about it.

I don't have that much of a story to tell. There were just lots of people (mostly young ones), lots of smiling, lots of chanting ("USA! USA! USA!"), lots of songs involving the word "good bye", with Bin Laden's name worked in ad-lib. Some dancing. Some alcohol---incredibly for the USA, without brown paperbags; the cops just looked the other way, grinning---but no drunks. Occasionally I found it weird how people could be so happy about someone getting shot. But that was just me I guess. I didn't see anyone in the crowd display any ostentations meanness or glee about the shooting. People just seemed happy Bin Laden was gone.

0 Replies

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Pretty fast DNA test. Gotta hit the propaganda skillet while its hot.

That caught my eye as well, but there are lot of claims on the web that a straight forward DNA test can be done in a few hours. Seems like the government would be smart enough to not make a claim that is technically not possible.

1 Reply

Osama Bin Laden is dead

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