The Communist Origin of the Modern Conservative Movement VI

@hightor,

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No, it really doesn't say that.

So you haven't read the Federalist and anti-federalist papers, they explain exactly what the FF were thinking when writing the Constitution. You are ignorant of your own history.

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An armed citizenry is hardly a guarantee against tyranny, since people could freely elect a tyrant if they wished.

It's worked for the last 200+ years. You leftist seem to want a tyrant, that's why you want the populace unarmed, no way to resist the coming push for socialism/communism.

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And hand-held weapons are hardly an effective defense against a foreign power intent on tyrannical rule — that's why we have professional armed forces.

Have you not paid attention to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? They didn't have tanks or nukes, and they seemed to put plenty of hurt on the US military. You has also proven our points about not limiting the type of weapons the US populace should have, we need to be able to resist, not be put in shackles and killed.

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You try to make it sound as if there's only one possible interpretation; in truth, it's ambiguous.

You would be wrong again, go read the already mentioned papers and come back to me.

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Okay, and why can't I buy a machine gun?

You have already given a couple of good examples of why we should be allowed to have such guns. The govt has them, so should we.

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@hightor,

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Because the design of the AR15 is basically the same as the military assault version it can be quickly converted to automatic.

Just to put your statement into context here, do tell how many times that someone has converted their semiautomatic rifle to an automatic rifle and used it in a mass shooting. You're speaking from hysteria.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

The courts, the legislature, the manufacture all agree that semi-automatic assault weapons are assault weapons nothing else makes sense. A regular semi-automatic rifle does not resemble an assault weapon.
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The semi-automatic version of the AR-15 is identical to the automatic version with the exception of the automatic triggering mechanism.
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The assault weapon only banned their sale and did not make owning an assault weapon a crime. So, most potential school mass murders had only to go to daddy gun cabinet to get their assault weapon.
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The is the law of the land passed by duly elected members of both parties.
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The point is that allowing import of assault weapons from around the world puts even more weapons of war on the street.
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Any idiot found at the scene of mass murderer with a gun in his hand would be killed by the police. Besides it would become a circular firing squad as one idiot would shoot the next idiot with a gun who would then be shot by some other idiot because he saw that idiot shoot the other gun nut. There is a reason they say leave the policing to the police. Even police form circular firing squads and they are trained.
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A knife is usually a woman’s weapon and most knife killings are domestic disputes where the woman is being beaten up and she gets her hands on a butcher knife. Most people don’t carry knives other than pocket knives. It was such a popular form of killing by women ID had a series called “Wives with Knives.”
The high body count random mass murders are not done with knives.
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Do you really believe that no NRA members have killed people? Some gun manufactures automatically enroll the purchaser in the NRA. So, when a mass murderer goes to purchase his assault weapon he is enrolled in the NRA. It is free.
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Common sense tells you that NRA gun nuts are the most likely people to be involved in murders because they have the main ingredient of murder, a gun. The book “Mass Murderers does not list NRA members because the NRA keeps the members list top secret like the KKK does.
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The gun regulations on the Thompson Sup Machine changed America a ban on assault weapons would do far more because there are far more of them on the streets.
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That is the recorded rate that the mass murderer actually fired, that is a cold hard fact.
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You are the one that said it would take 2 seconds to aim. Looking through the site of a gun is like looking through binoculars it is disorienting. You have to look without the binoculars to get them in the right place. While you focus your sight through the gun site other desperate people are coming after to you.
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The results of that Triathlon are posted on line I managed to beat half the field and finished 2nd in my age group and that guy was 9 years younger. The point was the trigger finger could be conditioned to fire much faster and longer than you can even imagine.
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The site with the Columbine security tapes shows the mass murderer taking the shot and the bomb does not explode.
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You might think you know more about guns but you can’t seem to identify an assault weapon.
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The people that make the guns could give you an education, the come down the same assembly line using all the same parts except for the trigger mechanism.
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We know for a fact that the Pulse mass murderer exceed the rate of fire of the Las Vegas mass murderer’s rate with a semi-automatic assault weapon by nearly 30% without a bump stock.
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Maybe you can show mass murderers firing from the shoulder.
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The three highest body count mass murderers have taken place in the last two years. That is a
Trend and it is going upward.
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That is every gang member and drug dealer in America using guns to defend themselves and of course that is debatable. Along with the wives defending themselves from their husbands and husbands defending themselves from their wives. These are the people that defend themselves with guns. And who are they defending themselves from? Another gun nut with a gun. When you get a number that goes from 500,000 to 2.5 million it worthless because it is not remotely close. At best it is a guestimate. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That does not violate any constitutional right that simply makes sure guns do not get into the hands of people who should not have them. You have to be qualified to drive a car you should have to be qualified to own a gun.
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@Zardoz,

Zardoz wrote:

The courts, the legislature, the manufacture all agree that semi-automatic assault weapons are assault weapons nothing else makes sense.

A fraudulent definition is fraudulent no matter who agrees with it.

Assault weapons:

a) are capable of either full-auto or burst-fire,

b) accept detachable magazines,

c) fire rounds that are less powerful than a standard deer rifle, and

d) are effective at a range of 300 meters.

This means that semi-auto-only guns are not assault weapons.

This means that guns with fixed magazines are not assault weapons.

This means that guns that fire rounds equal-to or greater-than the power of a standard deer rifle are not assault weapons.

This means that guns that fire handgun/shotgun/rimfire rounds are not assault weapons.

Zardoz wrote:

The point is that allowing import of assault weapons from around the world puts even more weapons of war on the street.

Assault weapons and weapons of war have been strictly regulated for the past 85 years.

People are only allowed to own an assault weapon or weapon of war if it was manufactured and registered more than 33 years ago.

No assault weapon or weapon of war has ever been used in a mass shooting in the US.

Zardoz wrote:

Any idiot found at the scene of mass murderer with a gun in his hand would be killed by the police.

That's why CCW holders would not confront police with a gun in their hands.

Zardoz wrote:

Besides it would become a circular firing squad as one idiot would shoot the next idiot with a gun who would then be shot by some other idiot because he saw that idiot shoot the other gun nut.

Not really.

Zardoz wrote:

There is a reason they say leave the policing to the police.

They say it because they want criminals to be able to prey on defenseless civilians.

Zardoz wrote:

A knife is usually a woman's weapon

No it isn't. Men have wielded edged weapons throughout history.

Zardoz wrote:

The high body count random mass murders are not done with knives.

22 people murdered with a machete:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nainital_wedding_massacre

20 people murdered with a sickle and machete:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banjarsari_massacre

19 people murdered (and 13 severely injured) with knives:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagamihara_stabbings

19 people murdered with knives
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yema_stabbings

Zardoz wrote:

a ban on assault weapons would do far more because there are far more of them on the streets.

That is incorrect. Assault weapons have been strictly regulated for the past 85 years, and people are only allowed to own them if they were manufactured and registered more than 33 years ago.

Zardoz wrote:

You might think you know more about guns but you can't seem to identify an assault weapon.

Sure he can.

Assault weapons:

a) are capable of either full-auto or burst-fire,

b) accept detachable magazines,

c) fire rounds that are less powerful than a standard deer rifle, and

d) are effective at a range of 300 meters.

This means that semi-auto-only guns are not assault weapons.

This means that guns with fixed magazines are not assault weapons.

This means that guns that fire rounds equal-to or greater-than the power of a standard deer rifle are not assault weapons.

This means that guns that fire handgun/shotgun/rimfire rounds are not assault weapons.

Zardoz wrote:

We know for a fact that the Pulse mass murderer exceed the rate of fire of the Las Vegas mass murderer's rate with a semi-automatic assault weapon by nearly 30% without a bump stock.

There is no such thing as a semi-automatic assault weapon.

Zardoz wrote:

When you get a number that goes from 500,000 to 2.5 million it worthless because it is not remotely close. At best it is a guestimate.

Even is we take the low number, that's still a lot of cases of self defense every year.

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@Glennn,

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...do tell how many times that someone has converted their semiautomatic rifle to an automatic rifle and used it in a mass shooting...

I never claimed that anyone did that. I was responding to the statement that there's no such things as an automatic AR15 and saying that it was possible to do. I didn't say that it was a problem or that it was easy for anyone to do but a technically knowledgeable person could do it pretty quickly with the right parts.

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You're speaking from hysteria.

No, I'm just stating a commonly known fact about the AR15 — you're the defensive one who's speaking from hysteria.

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@hightor,

hightor wrote:

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...do tell how many times that someone has converted their semiautomatic rifle to an automatic rifle and used it in a mass shooting...

I never claimed that anyone did that. I was responding to the statement that there's no such things as an automatic AR15 and saying that it was possible to do. I didn't say that it was a problem or that it was easy for anyone to do but a technically knowledgeable person could do it pretty quickly with the right parts.

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You're speaking from hysteria.

No, I'm just stating a commonly known fact about the AR15 — you're the defensive one who's speaking from hysteria.

I understand what you are saying.

BUT... An automatic firing AR-15 is an M-16. It is no longer an AR-15.

The reason for this is is that you need to replace the AR-15 lower (The part that holds the magazine, has the pistol grip and contains the hammer assembly) with a completely different model. An M-16 lower for example. It is machined differently than an AR-15 lower.

You also have to replace the entire hammer assembly to be able to fire in automatic mode. The hammer assembly in the AR-15 is incapable of firing in full auto regardless of adding paperclips or not.

Finally, you need to replace the bolt carrier from the one an AR-15 uses to one the M-16 uses. The bolt carrier (The part that moves back and forth and has the firing pin) is different between the AR-15 and the M-16.

The M-16 lower is not available for general sale to the public. It's not something you can find at a gun show or at the local Walmart. The lower is also the part that has to be registered in some states (Like NY for example).

So, once you are able to obtain the new parts and assemble them, you no longer have an AR-15. You have an M-16.

Does that make sense to you?

1 Reply

@hightor,

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I didn't say that it was a problem

Riiiight. Here we are in a thread where someone is calling a semiautomatic gun (AR-15) an assault weapon for mass shooters, and you chime in with how easy it is to quickly convert it to an automatic-fire rifle. Apparently, you want us to believe that you intended your statement to be taken as a neutral observation. But since we're not dumbasses, the fact remains that you were simply speaking from hysteria.

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@Zardoz,

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The courts, the legislature, the manufacture all agree that semi-automatic assault weapons are assault weapons nothing else makes sense.

I do not think this has ever been decided by the SCOTUS. The Heller and a couple other SCOTUS disagree with some of your claims though. You can claim lower court rulings, but unless they are ruled on by the SC, they are not really Constitutional rulings.

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A regular semi-automatic rifle does not resemble an assault weapon.

So you are finally admitting that the ban is based on cosmetic features only? It has nothing to do with the internal workings of the weapons and everything to do with how they look?
This video pretty much disproves everything you say about semiauto vs "assault weapons".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J29rdeeDSYk&t=

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The semi-automatic version of the AR-15 is identical to the automatic version with the exception of the automatic triggering mechanism.

Then it isn't identical is it. If you have to make an exception to how something is compared to something else, then they aren't the same. No selective fire switch, no assault anything. Did you know the govt calls the same type of weapons that their agents use "personal defense weapons", yet for civilians who own the same weapons, they are called "assault weapons". Propaganda at it's best. Shall not be infringed.

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The assault weapon only banned their sale and did not make owning an assault weapon a crime. So, most potential school mass murders had only to go to daddy gun cabinet to get their assault weapon.

The Columbine shooters purchased their own weapons, they didn't take them from their families. The AWB didn't do anything to change the purchase age of a weapon, so this statement is pointless. A good portion of the school shooters were of legal age to buy their own weapons.

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The is the law of the land passed by duly elected members of both parties.

Yeah, many things have been passed that way and turned out to be wrong. Gay marriage is a prime example, the majority have always voted against same sex marriage, should it have stayed the law because the majority wanted it, or been changed because it was seen as unconstitutional? The majority isn't always right, that's why we are a Constitutional Republic and not a Democracy, the majority don't get to suppress the minority based on more votes. That's why Socialism isn't compatible with our Constitution.

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The point is that allowing import of assault weapons from around the world puts even more weapons of war on the street.

How are they assault weapons, they have wooden stocks and none of the features of in your above listed BS law.

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Any idiot found at the scene of mass murderer with a gun in his hand would be killed by the police.

That just isn't the case. There has only been one reported case of such an occurrence. How many shooters have been taken into custody without being shot? In fact if they don't fire on the police, they usually give up when confronted by the police, CO theater shooter being a prime example. Most shooters take their own lives if they don't give up, the police kill very few mass shooters because the shooters are cowards.

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Besides it would become a circular firing squad as one idiot would shoot the next idiot with a gun who would then be shot by some other idiot because he saw that idiot shoot the other gun nut.

This claim has been made by people who have no training with weapons or have never taken a CCW course. The rules of engagement are clearly laid out and the laws are taught. All 50 states allow CC, and there hasn't been such a case of this happening. It's all in an anti-gunners wet dream.

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There is a reason they say leave the policing to the police. Even police form circular firing squads and they are trained.

This very rarely if ever happens and when it does is usually due to one police officer moving into another field of fire while under fire from a suspect. You don't know much about anything about guns, police or military tactics do you?

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A knife is usually a woman’s weapon and most knife killings are domestic disputes where the woman is being beaten up and she gets her hands on a butcher knife.

Do you always make things up on the fly or do you plan out this BS.

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The high body count random mass murders are not done with knives.

The 4 cops killed with a knife in a police station would disagree with you.

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Do you really believe that no NRA members have killed people?

Moving the goal posts again are we? You can't prove something, so you shift your argument to something else. YOU claimed that NRA members were mass shooters, I disagreed with your statement and wanted proof of your claims, now you switch the debate to whether any NRA members have killed people?

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Some gun manufactures automatically enroll the purchaser in the NRA.
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If they want to be members, they still have to submit their application, they just get a free 1 year membership coupon in the box, nothing automatic about it. BTW, how many total manufactures do this? Do you even know how many gun makers there are in the US? I think the total # would surprise you.

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So, when a mass murderer goes to purchase his assault weapon he is enrolled in the NRA. It is free.

You still have to prove that any of these shooters were NRA members. If they were, the media would have found out and made sure the populace knew, they are not friends of the NRA and will report anything bad about them in a heartbeat. You must have done a search because you would have posted something by now. You are conspiracy theorist as well as a propagandist.

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Common sense tells you that NRA gun nuts are the most likely people to be involved in murders because they have the main ingredient of murder, a gun.

He we go again moving those goal posts from mass shooters to just plain murder. You can't even have an honest discussion on this subject. The main ingredient of murder isn't a gun, it's a lack of good will towards your fellow humans. Guns are just a tool, they are not bad, people are bad. The only time a person doesn't get blamed for their crime is when they have a gun. No one blames the knife, the baseball bat or the fists/feet of other killers. Your argument has no common sense.

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The book “Mass Murderers does not list NRA members because the NRA keeps the members list top secret like the KKK does.

It doesn't list them because there have been no mass murders that were NRA members. I know people who are NRA members, they get lots and lots of mail from the NRA, if even 1 mass shooter was an NRA member, there would have been plenty of proof in their homes and on their computers, this is the digital age, everyone uses email.

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The gun regulations on the Thompson Sup Machine changed America a ban on assault weapons would do far more because there are far more of them on the streets.

It wasn't that regulation that had the major effect, there were still plenty of automatic guns in the streets already at that time. It was the 1986 restriction which had an impact. You can still own a fully automatic rifle, but it can't be newer than 1986 and takes a license from the govt to own it. All this did was make them rare and expensive, but you can still own one. Good luck finding one for under 15k. The only thing I don't like about this regulation is the fact it limits them to 1986 and older, that's BS and makes it so only wealthy people can own them. They should keep the restrictions but allow modern day weapons to be purchased, it would bring down the cost and allow the average Joe to own one as well. In your war against the wealthy, don't you want the people to to win?

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You are the one that said it would take 2 seconds to aim. Looking through the site of a gun is like looking through binoculars it is disorienting.

Ever used iron sites on a semi-auto rifle, or have you only looked through the glass of a hunting rifle scope? Ever looked through a red dot sight or an ACOG? Most of these shooters weren't using hunting scopes, they were using iron sites and maybe a red dot. Keep proving you have no idea what your talking about.

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Looking through the site of a gun is like looking through binoculars it is disorienting. You have to look without the binoculars to get them in the right place. While you focus your sight through the gun site other desperate people are coming after to you.

You are comparing long distance target shooting to someone using an AR in a mass shooting event? You really are clueless aren't you.

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The results of that Triathlon are posted on line I managed to beat half the field and finished 2nd in my age group and that guy was 9 years younger.

Congratulations on your good health and endurance. You are in much better shape then I am. I often mentioned to the wife that we need to start moving around more, neither one of us is over weight, I'm 5' 9" 175 lbs and she's 5'6" about 125 lbs. and we are in our mid 40's. We are doing much better then some of the people we went to school with but we need to do better.

Keep up the good work, I'm sure your grandchildren will enjoy having their grandparents around for many years.

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The point was the trigger finger could be conditioned to fire much faster and longer than you can even imagine.

Sure it can, but no one that is going on such a shootng spree is going to be thinking about such things. If sure the MSM is dumb enough to mention such things, they will encourge someone to do so, but that's the idiot MSM for you, they enjoy the self-full-filling prophecies. The more they talk about and promote mass shooting stories, the more they spread the idea and encourge it. Even the FBI has told them that this is exactly how you get more mass shooters. Like a serial killer, they want the fame and the media with their stupid antics will provide it for them. Thus making the next shooter want to out do the previous one.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/10/media-inspires-mass-shooters-copycats/

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The site with the Columbine security tapes shows the mass murderer taking the shot and the bomb does not explode.
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So they missed, it proves that you don't always hit what you are shooting at, it proves nothing about whether a mass shooter is aiming their weapon or shooting from the hip as you claim a pistol grip makes easier to do.

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You might think you know more about guns but you can’t seem to identify an assault weapon.

That's because an assault weapon has a selective rife switch and semi-auto rifles are not "assault weapons". Watch the video in the posted link above again if you need a lesson on semi-auto rifles.

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We know for a fact that the Pulse mass murderer exceed the rate of fire of the Las Vegas mass murderer’s rate with a semi-automatic assault weapon by nearly 30% without a bump stock.

Where did this fact come from?

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Maybe you can show mass murderers firing from the shoulder.

Every video ever released of a mass shooter event shows them firing from the shoulder. It was you who tried to claim differently and can't prove their claim.

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The three highest body count mass murderers have taken place in the last two years. That is a Trend and it is going upward.

I don't think it's a trend, the average person is getting better at reporting people, the police and FBI are getting better at responding to reports of possible concern.

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That is every gang member and drug dealer in America using guns to defend themselves and of course that is debatable.

That is the weakest one you have come up with yet. These are reports from the average gun owner, not gang members. You have just revealed yourself as a bigot and a fraud.

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Along with the wives defending themselves from their husbands and husbands defending themselves from their wives.

Defensive gun use (DGU) is the use or presentation of a firearm for self-defense, defense of others or in some cases, protecting property.

Don't limit the use to only things you think should count. You watch way to much ID and use that as some basis of fact. They use sensational cases for broadcast that don't follow the average crime rate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use

Unlike you, I provide proof of my claims.

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These are the people that defend themselves with guns. And who are they defending themselves from? Another gun nut with a gun. When you get a number that goes from 500,000 to 2.5 million it worthless because it is not remotely close. At best it is a guestimate.

See my above link for different takes on the DGU stats. Your personal bias and bigotry suggests that just because someone owns a gun, that they are a gun nut.

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That does not violate any constitutional right that simply makes sure guns do not get into the hands of people who should not have them.

It actually does, it places an undo burden on the person who has a Constitutional right to own a gun. From the sounds of it, you think only wealthy people should have the ability to own weapons, they are the only ones who can afford to go through all those steps and then afford the massive fee's and insurances it would cost to follow such a plan.

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You have to be qualified to drive a car you should have to be qualified to own a gun.

Here we go again, driving isn't a Constitutional right, it's a state granted privilege. There is a massive difference between a granted privilege and a Constitutional Right, why do you leftists always seem to confuse the two? Shall not be infringed.

1 Reply

@McGentrix,

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Does that make sense to you?

Yes it does, McG. But the cosmetic similarities between the two rifles are too strong to expect everyone to draw the proper distinction. But going forward I'll try to keep it mind.

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@Baldimo,

Of all the thousands and thousands of laws passed every year only a tiny fraction will ever reach the Supreme Court. To contest a law before the Supreme Court you have to make a case that the law violates the Constitution. A law banning assault weapons is within the bounds of our constitution and this is a good reason why the NRA never bought a case before the Supreme Court contesting the 1994 assault weapon ban.
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It is not cosmetic it is the same exact construction with the exception of three small parts.
Your video was just meant to mislead the public, that was not a AR-15 or an ak-47. That won’t chamber bullets at a 900 rounds per minute rate which is causing much of the problem.
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It typical to have options available for cars or guns. What makes an effective assault weapon is the ability to rapidly chamber the bullets and we know the semi-automatic AR-15 can chamber bullets at a 900 rounds a minute rate. That is a weapon of war. As long as you have a weapon to bear there is no infringement.
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And a lot of school shooters were below the age to purchase a gun including some as young as 11 years old.
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Society gets to decide what the laws through their elected representatives as long as it is not unconstitutional. We know what the second amendments says “a right to bare arms” there is no constitutional right to bare a specific arm.
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It does not matter what the stock is made of it how the gun is designed. If it was designed to kill large numbers of people rapidly that makes it an assault weapon.
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Most of the mass murders aren’t shot by the police because they killed themselves. They are on a suicide mission. The ones that are caught is because they are out of amo or their gun jammed. The Columbine mass murderers killed themselves. Police killed the Akron mass murderer in 30 seconds.
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Even highly trained police have formed circular firing squads a few weeks ago a policeman was killed by another policeman on a call. Taking a class is nothing close to the reality of making split second decision in a life and death situation.
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When number of policemen are called to location from coming from different direction it is easy to form a circular firing squad. I can just tell you the facts of what happened.
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Knives are widely considered to be a woman’s weapon. In fact, there was a case on ID tonight and it was a woman doing the killing. Knives are weapons of opportunity while mass murderers armed with assault weapons plan their killing for years.
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There is a huge difference between 4 and 58 or 49. Do you consider 4 a high body count mass murder? It just barely qualifies as a mass murder by the skin of its teeth.
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I will guarantee you for a fact that some NRA members are mass shooters. To believe that gun nuts don’t shoot people is absurd. The mass murderer buying their assault weapons are automatically made NRA members when they buy their assault weapons by some gun manufacturers.
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That easy there are way too many gun manufactures in America. When something is free most people take advantage of it.
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Why do you think the NRA keeps their membership top secret? They don’t want the public to know how many killings, suicides, children shot coming home late. It would really open your eyes to how many gun crimes are committed by NRA members. Get the NRA to publish their membership list.
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There is only one way to find out how many mass murderers were NRA members that is make the NRA publish their membership list anything else is pure speculation on your part. That is the same way of having good will toward your car without tools you could never fix it.
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There is absolutely no way to know whether and mass murderers were NRA members the NRA wants to make sure no one finds out either. Mass murderers destroy everything they don’t want people to know.
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Do you see what that 1986 regulation did? It meant the mass murderer could not go into the corner gun store and buy an automatic. Most mass murderers are not wealthy so they have no choice but semi-automatic assault weapons. It was effective.
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If you used a laser there would be no need to hold the gun at shoulder height it would be as accurate at waist height. Whether your using a hunting scope or iron sites it would still take time to aim.
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I am comparing aiming to not aiming.
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I did not start exercising until I was in my middle 30s after my dad had open surgery in his early 50s. I realized I was looking at my future life I didn’t change my life style. His heart attack really changed his life, he retired and was a heart patient for the rest of his life. There was a ten-mile run in Huntington and it took me a year to get in shape but I was hooked after that and I usually do 50 races a year. My health is far better than his was at the same age. We have a number of people who are over 70 and still run competitively.
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There is no doubt that news coverage plays a role in mass murders. Mass Murderers are competitive and each one wants to set the record. They are looking to become famous. The sheriff in El Paso intentional refused to mention the mass murderer’s name. I had not realized that the Columbine mass murder sparked copy cats around the world. The mass murderers study other mass murderer’s mistakes to learn from them. This is going to cause a problem with freedom of the press but the coverage needs to be scaled back.
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So far that is the only picture of a mass murderer aiming in the traditional way I have found.
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I watched the video but that was not an AR-15 and it would not fire at a 900 a minute rate.
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The article that the 130 a minute fire rate came from was: “Caliber, Cartridges, and Bump Stocks: Guns Explained for Non-gun People.” I believe that was it.
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I have not seen one other than the Columbine mass murderer who was trying to set a bomb off.
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There are more people reporting potential mass murderers but the experts are predicting that the mass murderers are going to be more frequent with higher body counts.
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That is the case most gang members bring guns to a gun fight. When you have that kind of range it cannot not represent anything in the real world. If they could give an exact figure taken from police reports it might make sense.
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I know how that goes some kid would be pick apples out of someone’s tree and some one would shoot them with rock salt. I know one woman that used her shot gun to protect herself from kids playing in the church yard.
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Do you know that Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook, mass murder regularly edited Wikipedia? The public in general can edit Wikipedia and in this case the gun lobby has a motive to distort that article.
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If you had given your statistic professor those stats he would have thrown you out of class.
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How high is the price for 20 first graders? How much is the cost of a life?
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We give drivers tests to protect the other drivers by seeing if they are competent drivers. Why should there not be license to own a gun. It doesn’t prevent one from owning a gun it just insures they know how to properly use it.

1 Reply

@Zardoz,

Quote:

Of all the thousands and thousands of laws passed every year only a tiny fraction will ever reach the Supreme Court.

It's sad to think that we have that many laws passed per year in a "free country".

Quote:

To contest a law before the Supreme Court you have to make a case that the law violates the Constitution. A law banning assault weapons is within the bounds of our constitution and this is a good reason why the NRA never bought a case before the Supreme Court contesting the 1994 assault weapon ban.

I've seen nothing in the Constitution which allows the federal govt to infringe on the only Amendment which says it shouldn't be infringed. Only those of the anti-freedom caucus would support limitations on the people while allowing the power of the govt to expand.

Quote:

It is not cosmetic it is the same exact construction with the exception of three small parts.
Your video was just meant to mislead the public, that was not a AR-15 or an ak-47.

Sorry to tell you, but you are wrong. The rifle he was using as a semi-auto rifle, just like the AR15. You can take the same AR15, drop it in wooden stock and it will do exactly the same thing as it would in a polymer stock. Zero difference between them except for looks.

Quote:

That won’t chamber bullets at a 900 rounds per minute rate which is causing much of the problem.

You are right, it won't because only full auto rifles have the ability to shoot that fast, semi-auto rifles won't fire that fast even if they had unlimited ammo and no reload times. The AR15 won't do it either, it doesn't have burst or automatic fire options, 1 trigger pull, 1 bullet fired.

Quote:

And a lot of school shooters were below the age to purchase a gun including some as young as 11 years old.

That wasn't your claim before. You claimed they were buying guns and shooting up schools.

Quote:

Society gets to decide what the laws through their elected representatives as long as it is not unconstitutional. We know what the second amendments says “a right to bare arms” there is no constitutional right to bare a specific arm.

Correct, that's why according to the Constitution we should be allowed to own any gun we want. It was left vague on purpose because they knew anti-American and anti-Freedom people like you would eventually show up and try to remove the right.

Quote:

It does not matter what the stock is made of it how the gun is designed. If it was designed to kill large numbers of people rapidly that makes it an assault weapon.

As the video pointed out, it has everything to do with how the weapon looks and nothing about how it functions. You would have seen a pic of the same rifle in a polymer stock and screamed it should be banned while leaving the wooden stocked weapon alone. Face it, you are not education enough on this subject to be passing judgement. You have your little bits of propaganda and that's all you got.

Quote:

Most of the mass murders aren’t shot by the police because they killed themselves.

Except for the ones the police have taken into custody and have been put in jail...

Quote:

They are on a suicide mission. The ones that are caught is because they are out of amo or their gun jammed. The Columbine mass murderers killed themselves. Police killed the Akron mass murderer in 30 seconds.

Aurora theater shooter caught, El Paso shooter caught neither one of them had a jammed weapon, they gave up without a fight, that's why they weren't shot. Even a jammed gun when pointed at officers would force them to shoot him because they didn't know the weapon was jammed.

Quote:

Even highly trained police have formed circular firing squads a few weeks ago a policeman was killed by another policeman on a call. Taking a class is nothing close to the reality of making split second decision in a life and death situation.

1 police officer getting shot does not a "circular firing squad" make. Stop the BS, most police on police shootings happen because one officer moves into the fire line of another officer, it has nothing to do with poor planning or approach.
You haven't paid attention to modern day gun training have you? Civilians have access to "shoot rooms" just like the police do. Thank you for continuing to prove you talk out of your ass and don't know what you are talking about. You talk like you are having a constant leftist wet dream.

Quote:

When number of policemen are called to location from coming from different direction it is easy to form a circular firing squad. I can just tell you the facts of what happened.

You aren't telling me facts, you are telling me your version of the facts mixed in with some uneducated guesses that happen to be 100% wrong.

Quote:

Knives are widely considered to be a woman’s weapon. In fact, there was a case on ID tonight and it was a woman doing the killing. Knives are weapons of opportunity while mass murderers armed with assault weapons plan their killing for years.

You watch way too much TV, you are starting to confuse reality with fantasy. I've seen plenty of shows on that same channel where women shoot their husbands while they are asleep and then try to claim self-defense. They go to jail.

Quote:

I will guarantee you for a fact that some NRA members are mass shooters. [/quote
You have failed to prove it for going on over a month now. If you were going to prove it you would have done by now. Instead you give an empty "guarantee" that you know you won't be able to prove.

[quote]To believe that gun nuts don’t shoot people is absurd. The mass murderer buying their assault weapons are automatically made NRA members when they buy their assault weapons by some gun manufacturers.

Yeah, you've said this already as well, but again you fail to prove your point and just repeat the BS. I'll say it again, NRA members if they were mass shooters, the media would have found out they were members and it would be a leading story for weeks.

Quote:

That easy there are way too many gun manufactures in America. When something is free most people take advantage of it.

What's free? It isn't free to make guns and you can't get them for free. Is this another throwaway statement with no point behind it?

Quote:

hy do you think the NRA keeps their membership top secret?

Because of people like you. People who would harass legal gun owners because you don't like guns. It has nothing to do with "hiding" their crimes, it would be easily discovered if they were members.

Quote:

They don’t want the public to know how many killings, suicides, children shot coming home late. It would really open your eyes to how many gun crimes are committed by NRA members. Get the NRA to publish their membership list.

How much more BS can you spew?

Quote:

There is only one way to find out how many mass murderers were NRA members that is make the NRA publish their membership list anything else is pure speculation on your part. That is the same way of having good will toward your car without tools you could never fix it.
Quote:

As explained, the NRA keeps these list private because of people like you and other anti-gun zealots who would harass people into either quit or publishing their info in news papers, like was almost done by newspapers in the past. People have a right to privacy, it's in the Constitution.

Quote:
There is absolutely no way to know whether and mass murderers were NRA members the NRA wants to make sure no one finds out either. Mass murderers destroy everything they don’t want people to know.

The anti-gun media would find out the info and publish it in a heartbeat. As I said, people get lots of mail and email from the NRA, it wouldn't be hard to find out when an investigation started on a shooter. No reports of NRA mass shooters means that none of the mass shooters were NRA members. NONE!

Quote:
I watched the video but that was not an AR-15 and it would not fire at a 900 a minute rate.

The AR does not fire that fast, stop lying. Only fully automatic rifles fire that fast. This article talks about the fact's when a leftist politician lied on national TV and wasn't correct by the friendly anti-gun media.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/house-dem-claims-ar-15-can-fire-700-rounds-per-minute

Quote:
Do you know that Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook, mass murder regularly edited Wikipedia? The public in general can edit Wikipedia and in this case the gun lobby has a motive to distort that article.

When you can't prove your point, you make stuff up. It isn't so easy to alter a Wikipedia page any longer. Get with the modern day, and stop referencing things from over 10 years ago. The site has changed alot in the last decade.

Quote:
If you had given your statistic professor those stats he would have thrown you out of class.

That's what would happen with 90% of the claims you make on this page. No proof, no fact's, just opinion. I've at least provided links and facts to back my case, you have opinion and an uneducated opinion at that.

Quote:
How high is the price for 20 first graders? How much is the cost of a life?

Sorry to tell you this, but my Constitutional rights are more important to me than weak your appeal to emotion. Keep the virtue signaling for your side of the aisle.

Quote:
We give drivers tests to protect the other drivers by seeing if they are competent drivers. Why should there not be license to own a gun. It doesn’t prevent one from owning a gun it just insures they know how to properly use it.

I'll explain it again so even the slow kids in the back can understand. Driving is a privilege, owning a gun is a Constitutional Right. Get it yet? You won't get it, you don't believe in the Constitution.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

The book of laws that I enforced was five inches thick and new laws were written at city council meeting. It was difficult to keep up with because we often did not get our books updated. This goes on all over America at a city, county, state, and Federal levels. I doubt anyone has an exact count of the number of laws in America.
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The right always wants a strict interpretation of the Constitution and “right to bare arms” clearly does not say the right to bare assault weapons. As long as you have an arm to bare that is all the Constitutional rights you have.
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Not all semi-automatics are alike and they are all not the same size. You can put anything in a box and that is what the wooden stock is just that a container. Putting it in a different container changes nothing. An AR-15 hidden in a wooden stock would still fire at a 900 round a minute rate. It is just like coming up against a Chev S10 on the street that someone has put a Corvette motor in. It looks like an S10 but it runs like a Corvette. These were suckers bet and the fastest way lose your cash.
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It is only the trigger mechanism that is changed a semi-automatic can chamber just as fast as the automatic.
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Some do buy their own guns just as the EL Paso mass murderer did but others get them from their father’s gun cabinet. One mass murderer went looking for his dad’s AR-15 and could not find it. It was leaning up against his father’s chest of drawers he was within inches and missed it as a result he killed far fewer people.
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The Constitution does not give you a right to bare any gun, it is simply a right to bare arms.
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It has nothing do with how the assault weapons looks but it has everything to do with how preforms. You can put it in any box you want it is still how efficiently that it kills that makes the difference. The mass murderers and body county from assault weapons are all the education anyone needs about assault weapons. Mass murders are not propaganda.
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The Akron mass murder was killed by the police, Adam Lanza, Sandy Hook’s mass murderer committed suicide, the Parkland mass murderer’s gun jammed, the Columbine mass murderers committed suicide. I can name at least another 30 mass murderers who committed suicide. Suicide is hard chickening out is easy.
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Police officer being shot by other police officers is indicative of a circular firing squad. When they are all shooting at a suspect and a policeman is killed you have a circular firing squad. Training often goes out the window in an actual situation. You can have all the shooting rooms you want but they are only high-tech video games real life situations are different.
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The bullets told the facts. Bullets don’t make guesstimates and they travel in straight lines. The only possible to get shot is to be on the other side of the circle.
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I have to do something while playing video games and posting. That is true but there is no show called Husbands with Knives.
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As long as the NRA keeps their membership list secret it will be impossible for you to prove no NRA member has ever been involved in a mass murder. When you mix guns with gun nuts there will always be murders and you know that. That is BS and you know it is not the media job to get the NRA membership list.
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What’s free? Your NRA membership when buying an assault weapon.
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The NRA has always kept their membership secret long before the mass murderers became everyday occurrences.
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. That is the cold hard facts as what happens when you own guns to believe NRA members are exempt is foolish. That is just what guns do.
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You have a gun why would you be worried about little thing like harassment? You could just shoot them.
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The media does not get to go into a mass murderer’s apartment. They do not have subpoena power. They cannot go through his papers or computer however they could find out from the NRA if it was not secret. You are making meaningless claim that you can’t back up.
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That is the manufacturer’s spec for the AR-15. The semi-automatic has the same capability it is just a matter of pulling the trigger fast enough. The rate was 600 rounds minute for the Bushmaster assault weapon
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Lanza has been dead for a few years but he did correct Wikipedia articles. It might not be easy but if it can be done someone will do it. Many of the articles on Wikipedia have been recently modified.
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You must admit that is the most absurd statistic I have ever seen. A range of 500% is not a statistic.
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You have a Constitutional right only to “bare an arm” not bare a weapon of war.
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Bearing an arm may not be privilege but making sure someone is competent to own a gun is the only responsible thing to do.

2 Replies

@Zardoz,

Zardoz wrote:

The Constitution does not give you a right to bare any gun, it is simply a right to bare arms.

Restrictions on guns are allowed only if the restrictions can be justified with a good reason.

There is no justification for restricting ordinary hunting rifles like a semi-auto-only AR-15.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

The second amendment is extremely clear as what your right is, “a right to bare arms” gives you only that right and nothing more, if you have a musket or a BB gun that condition is fulfilled. Activist judges have read far more into the second amendment then is there.

The AR-15 was designed for one type hunting alright, hunting humanbeings.

1 Reply

@Zardoz,

Zardoz wrote:

The second amendment is extremely clear as what your right is, "a right to bare arms" gives you only that right and nothing more, if you have a musket or a BB gun that condition is fulfilled. Activist judges have read far more into the second amendment then is there.

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment forbids all gun laws that cannot be justified as serving a compelling government interest.

The Second Amendment also requires that people be allowed to have guns with enough firepower to be adequate for self defense.

Zardoz wrote:

The AR-15 was designed for one type hunting alright, hunting humanbeings.

That is incorrect. The semi-auto-only version of the AR-15 is ideal for hunting varmints and small predators.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Words have meaning but they do not have meaning beyond those words. “A right to bare arms” is just that and nothing more. The founding fathers left the question of what arms open. The Founding Fathers did leave us a way to update the constitution by amending it. For instance, the NRA could propose a Constitutional Amendment saying that the public has a right to bare assault weapons but it would take two thirds of the states for it to pass it. The right loves to campaigns against activist judges but decisions on the 2nd Amendment are some of the most activist decision in history ruling an entire book of privileges based on 5 little words. What were actually privileges and subject to the laws of the land were casts as rights by activist judges.

You read far more into those five little words than was ever imagined by the founding fathers even in their wildest dreams.
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When ArmaLife set down to a drawing board to design the AR-15 they did not say what America needs now is a good varmint gun. They sat out to design a vastly superior weapon of war to hunt humans with. Objects primarily designed for one purpose can be used for other than the designed purpose but that does not change what they were designed for.

1 Reply

@Zardoz,

Zardoz wrote:

Words have meaning but they do not have meaning beyond those words. “A right to bare arms” is just that and nothing more. The founding fathers left the question of what arms open.

That is incorrect. The Founding Fathers made it very clear that the Second Amendment is all about the sort of weapons that the militia needs to carry out their duties.

In other words, the Founding Fathers said that the Second Amendment covers modern weapons of war.

Zardoz wrote:

The Founding Fathers did leave us a way to update the constitution by amending it. For instance, the NRA could propose a Constitutional Amendment saying that the public has a right to bare assault weapons but it would take two thirds of the states for it to pass it.

The Founding Fathers already created such an amendment. They said that the Second Amendment covers the sort of weapons that a militia needs to carry out its duties.

Zardoz wrote:

The right loves to campaigns against activist judges but decisions on the 2nd Amendment are some of the most activist decision in history ruling an entire book of privileges based on 5 little words. What were actually privileges and subject to the laws of the land were casts as rights by activist judges.

That is incorrect. Keeping and bearing arms has been a fundamental right for thousands of years.

Zardoz wrote:

You read far more into those five little words than was ever imagined by the founding fathers even in their wildest dreams.

That is incorrect. The Founding Fathers intended the Second Amendment to protect the right to keep and bear the sort of arms that are appropriate for militia duties.

Zardoz wrote:

When ArmaLife set down to a drawing board to design the AR-15 they did not say what America needs now is a good varmint gun. They sat out to design a vastly superior weapon of war to hunt humans with. Objects primarily designed for one purpose can be used for other than the designed purpose but that does not change what they were designed for.

They may have designed full-auto versions for use against humans, but that has nothing to do with semi-auto-only versions.

1 Reply

@Zardoz,

Quote:

The book of laws that I enforced was five inches thick and new laws were written at city council meeting. It was difficult to keep up with because we often did not get our books updated. This goes on all over America at a city, county, state, and Federal levels. I doubt anyone has an exact count of the number of laws in America.

Thank you for proving we have far too many laws and regulations in this nation for a free people. The only point of laws and regulations of this magnitude are to control the people and keep them under your bureaucratic thumb.

Quote:

The right always wants a strict interpretation of the Constitution and “right to bare arms” clearly does not say the right to bare assault weapons. As long as you have an arm to bare that is all the Constitutional rights you have.

It is vague, meaning there is no limit on what can be owned. The FF just fought a war of Independence, do you really think they were only talking about "hunting rifles". You have zero understanding of our history and our founding.

Quote:

Not all semi-automatics are alike and they are all not the same size.

They all work exactly the same. You pull the trigger and one bullet fires and the gun reloads for the next shot. Nothing different from any other semi-auto rifle or handgun for that matter.

Quote:

You can put anything in a box and that is what the wooden stock is just that a container. Putting it in a different container changes nothing.

That is exactly the point of the video, the only weapons that the left wants to ban are the ones in scary looking polymer stocks. The Ruger Ranch rifle shoots exactly the same ammo as the AR15, it's a semi-auto rifle, putting it in different types of stocks has zero impact on how it fires.

Quote:

An AR-15 hidden in a wooden stock

Hidden? No one is hiding anything, people prefer either wooden or polymer stocks, the AR just happens to come in a polymer stock.

Quote:

Some do buy their own guns just as the EL Paso mass murderer did but others get them from their father’s gun cabinet.

The majority of mass shootings are done with handguns. There are already laws about locking up guns. What else do you propose, oh that's right, take them all.

Quote:

It is only the trigger mechanism that is changed a semi-automatic can chamber just as fast as the automatic.

It is actually more than the trigger mechanism, it is the entire internal mechanism, they are indeed different. Lets also not forget the selective fire switch, that is the most important part and a part that semi-auto rifles don't have.

Quote:

One mass murderer went looking for his dad’s AR-15 and could not find it. It was leaning up against his father’s chest of drawers he was within inches and missed it as a result he killed far fewer people.

Where did you hear this one? Fact, proof, link's?

Quote:

The Constitution does not give you a right to bare any gun, it is simply a right to bare arms.

Actually it does, that why is uses the vague word arms, instead of musket or Puckle Gun, or Belton Flintlock. The FF were a lot smarter than you are, they knew what they were doing to keep people like you from infringing on our rights. Remember, the 2nd Amendment is the only amendment that says shall not be infringed. Funny how you leftists refuse to accept this.

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It has nothing do with how the assault weapons looks but it has everything to do with how preforms.

Then why are the leftists so hung up on AR/AK's and they ignore all the other semi-auto rifles?

Quote:

You can put it in any box you want it is still how efficiently that it kills that makes the difference.

If only that were the truth. The left targets scary looking guns, they don't know how they operate. That's why you have so many idiot law makers making things up about the AR. Did you see Shelia Jackson Lee make an ass out of herself when she claimed the AR weights as much as 10 full moving boxes and shoots a massive size bullet? Yeah, those are the idiots leading the charge against our gun rights.

Quote:

The Akron mass murder was killed by the police, Adam Lanza, Sandy Hook’s mass murderer committed suicide, the Parkland mass murderer’s gun jammed, the Columbine mass murderers committed suicide. I can name at least another 30 mass murderers who committed suicide. Suicide is hard chickening out is easy.

You are not really saying anything here other than to try and claim that no one gives themselves up to the police. We know that isn't true, they have captured and put in jail plenty of mass shooters.

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I can name at least another 30 mass murderers who committed suicide. Suicide is hard chickening out is easy.

Lets see the names then. You will find half of the shooters are caught and put in jail.

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Police officer being shot by other police officers is indicative of a circular firing squad.

That just isn't the case. I've seen lots of police video's and there is almost never a friendly fire incident, unless something hits the fan in a bad way. Most of them as I've indicated several times now are mainly from one police officer moving into the line of fire of another officer. All you have to do is watch a few body cams and see the police are well trained and know what they are doing. You seem to have some animosity towards the police, is it because they had power you never had so your jealous? You seem like a police wanna be, who now hates them because they didn't accept you into their club.

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Training often goes out the window in an actual situation.

For some cops that is true. A vast majority remember their training just fine and don't have the problems you seem to think they have.

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You can have all the shooting rooms you want but they are only high-tech video games real life situations are different.

Thank you for proving you are clueless once again. A shooting room is actually a real life simulator, no video screens and you have "bad guys" hidden to take out the police. They use them for room clearing and other high stress situations for training. Stop pretending you know what you are talking about, it's starting to get embarrassing for you.

Quote:

The bullets told the facts.

What facts, like a majority of your posts, you have no facts, only opinions and wrong opinions at that.

Quote:

Bullets don’t make guesstimates and they travel in straight lines.

Actually depending on the guns or rounds used, bullets don't travel in straight lines, they actually have somewhat of an arc they travel in. If you had spent any amount of time on the range, you would know this. The bullet's can rise in an arc before they start coming down. With the M-16, you actually aim at different places depending on how far off your target is. The military teaches you this when they take you out to the range. You aim high for distance targets 300M, and aim short for closer targets about 150M As our drill Sgt used to tell us, at 150M you aim for the balls and the bullet will end up center mass.
https://www.bevfitchett.us/m16a1-m16a2-rifle-marksmanship/fm-bsj.html

Quote:

That is true but there is no show called Husbands with Knives.

Please don't try and present a sensationalized TV show as proof about crimes, it's TV, it's all about the ratings.

Quote:

As long as the NRA keeps their membership list secret it will be impossible for you to prove no NRA member has ever been involved in a mass murder.

I can promise no NRA members have been mass shooters. The fact you haven't been able to provide even 1 story of such a case proves it.

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Quote:

That is BS and you know it is not the media job to get the NRA membership list.

You actually made me laugh out loud. The media has an agenda and if they could report even one mass shooter as an NRA member, they would be all over it. They haven't reported on one because there hasn't been one.

Quote:

What’s free? Your NRA membership when buying an assault weapon.

If the gun manufactures are handing out NRA memberships, then they would be paying for the first year, it would be up to the person to continue their membership. The NRA isn't free, it costs $35 a year to be a member. That's right on their membership page.

Quote:

. That is the cold hard facts as what happens when you own guns to believe NRA members are exempt is foolish. That is just what guns do.

What's the cold hard facts? You seem to confuse your uneducated opinion with facts.

Quote:

You have a gun why would you be worried about little thing like harassment? You could just shoot them.

The left has a mission against the NRA and it's members. They want to see the NRA gone and any of it's members fired from their jobs. States like CA and NY have an ax to grind with the NRA, they prevent them from infringing on people's 2nd Amendment right. San Francisco tried to label the NRA as a terrorist organization and prevent others from doing business with them.

Quote:

The media does not get to go into a mass murderer’s apartment. They do not have subpoena power. They cannot go through his papers or computer however they could find out from the NRA if it was not secret. You are making meaningless claim that you can’t back up.

Another weak post from a weak mind. The media will find out whatever info they want, even if they have to pay off some cop guarding the place, they will get the info they want. The fact they haven't found a single mass shooter to be an NRA member is enough to prove none have been NRA memebrs.

Quote:

That is the manufacturer’s spec for the AR-15.

No it isn't. You have never found such info on anyone's page for that type of weapon. What you have done is take info from the M16 and transpose it to the AR15.

Quote:

You must admit that is the most absurd statistic I have ever seen. A range of 500% is not a statistic.

It's only absurd because it doesn't fit with your agenda and shows that there are people protecting themselves with guns in the US at a much higher rate than the anti-gun media wants to report. In a vast majority of those cases, not a shot was fired and no one was hurt. That's the only type of news the media wants to report. You even tried to claim the guy who defended his home with an AR15 against 3 armed attackers was a drug dealer of some sort. You were wrong about that just like you are wrong about the majority of the things you talk about.

Quote:

You have a Constitutional right only to “bare an arm” not bare a weapon of war.

It actually says "bear arms". Don't change the words to fit your anti-gun propaganda.

Quote:

Bearing an arm may not be privilege but making sure someone is competent to own a gun is the only responsible thing to do.

Bearing an arm is indeed a right, and the 2nd Amendment says "Shall not infringe". There are no other Constitutional Amendments which someone has to prove anything so they can use it.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

“A well regulate Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” That only grants a right to bear arms. It does not in any way grant a right to assault weapons designed 200 years in the future. If the founding father had intended to grant a right to all future developments of weapons, they could have specified that and written the people are hereby granted a right to all future developments of guns but they did not. The founding fathers knew that you can only have so much dead hand control of the future.
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Wrong those five little words do not grant you the right to weapons designed for wars.
“A right to bear arms is not a right to bare any arms. It preserves the right of public to bear arms but leaves the question of what arms to be the subject of the law.
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A right to bear an arm is just that and nothing more. Courts have already ruled that dangerous and deadly weapons can be banned and nothing is as deadly as assault weapons.
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Muskets were quite adequate for militia duty. Hind sight is 20/20 but foresight is far less accurate. The founding fathers were far more concerned with the here and now instead of a future they could never imagine.
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The semi-automatic contains 99% of the design improvement of assault weapons and the mass murderers are making good use of the design improvement to assault weapons.

1 Reply

@Zardoz,

Zardoz wrote:

“A well regulate Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” That only grants a right to bear arms. It does not in any way grant a right to assault weapons designed 200 years in the future. If the founding father had intended to grant a right to all future developments of weapons, they could have specified that and written the people are hereby granted a right to all future developments of guns but they did not. The founding fathers knew that you can only have so much dead hand control of the future.

Well first, it doesn't "grant" a right. Rather, it protects a preexisting right that people have had for thousands of years.

Second, the Founding Fathers did not intend to destroy the nation by forcing the militia to defend it with obsolete weapons. The Second Amendment protects the right to have the sort of weapons that will allow the militia to effectively defend the nation.

Zardoz wrote:

Wrong those five little words do not grant you the right to weapons designed for wars.
“A right to bear arms is not a right to bare any arms. It preserves the right of public to bear arms but leaves the question of what arms to be the subject of the law.

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment is all about the sort of weapons that the militia needs to defend the nation, and that means modern weapons of war.

Zardoz wrote:

Courts have already ruled that dangerous and deadly weapons can be banned and nothing is as deadly as assault weapons.

You were saying that the courts are wrong and we needed to look at what the Second Amendment actually says. "What the courts say" is irrelevant to that question.

What the Second Amendment actually says is that we have the right to have the sorts of weapons that allow the militia to defend the nation.

Zardoz wrote:

Muskets were quite adequate for militia duty.

If the militia tried to suppress an insurrection or repel an invasion with muskets today, the nation would be destroyed. The militia needs modern weapons of war in order to defend the nation.

Zardoz wrote:

The semi-automatic contains 99% of the design improvement of assault weapons

No they don't. The ability to fire full-auto is a huge difference.

Zardoz wrote:

and the mass murderers are making good use of the design improvement to assault weapons.

No mass murderer has ever used an assault weapon in the US.

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