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The Communist Origin of the Modern Conservative Movement VI

 
 
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Tue 15 Oct, 2019 11:00 pm
@Baldimo,
Bureaucrats don’t make laws politicians make laws and they are elected by the people.
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It is not vague, it is extremely specific, a right to bear arms is just that “a right to bear arms” and as long as you have an arm to bear that specific statement has been met in full. The founding fathers have never been accused of being vague.
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ArmaLife was granted a patent for the AR-15 because it could chamber shells at a 900 round a minute rate far superior to anything on the market at that time. It is the speed that it reloads that makes the difference semi-automatic hunting rifles can’t come close to chambering shells at 900 rate per minute. To a mass murderer speed makes all the difference in getting record body counts.
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The ones that we want to ban are the assault weapons that are designed to fire at a 900 round a minute rate. Those that were designed to slaughter huge numbers of people.
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That is exactly what the video was about, hiding an assault weapon in a block of wood. I looked at an AR-15 on line and it would take a huge block of wood to fit an AR-15 in. The assault weapon he used for the demo must have been a micro mini assault weapon.
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Those shooting with hand guns are gang member, husband shooting wives, or wives shooting husbands, parents shooting teenagers because they were mistaken for a prowler coming in late. This is not the same thing as mass murders that kill nearly 60 people and wounds 500. Nothing is going to protect you from your gun nut neighbors and relatives other than if you make sure you don’t socialize with the gun nut crowd. The vast majority of high body count mass murders are done with assault weapons. Locking up guns? One of the mass murderers carefully watched his dad to get the combination for the gun safe.
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We already know that the AR-15 can be converted to full-automatic. One mass murder worked as a gun smith in a machine shop. We know for a fact that the Pulse night club shooter assault weapon chambered at a 130 round a minute rate. If the gun smith had converted an AR-15 it would fire at a 900 round a minute rate.
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It was a school mass murderer who did not kill near as many people because he could not find his dad’s AR-15. I suspect that was in the book “Mass Killers.” My memory is not nearly as good as it used to be. I flunked that part of my physical.
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It is not vague it is very specific and as long as you have an arm available it has been met fully and completely.
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It is the assault weapons in general that need banned not just a couple of specific models.
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It isn’t scary looking that is the problem, it is one high body count mass murder after another mass murder done with assault weapons that scares people any time their children go to school, they go to a restaurant, or go to a theater. That what scares people not the looks of assault weapons.
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Most mass murderers kill themselves but some just give up when they see the police.
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Wikipedia has article that list 134 pages of murderers who committed suicide. “Category: Murders who committed suicide” They may not all be mass murderers but, in the thousands listed you can be sure there are at least 30 mass murderers.
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I just reported the facts as they took place, they formed a circular firing squad and started firing. There is no question that police officer was killed by another police office bullet. There is only one way that can happen.
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All it takes is one. Note the Texas policeman who never identified himself and killed a woman in her house. When the adrenalin starts flowing there is often a problem. The police were chasing a woman across a bridge she wrecked and was killed one of the police cars that was following another police car hit the other police car and put it up on his hood. Why the gas tank did not explode and kill both of them I don’t know. But I know that from then on if a chase took place the other police cars pulled over and let that guy in front. I don’t know simulations I know what actually happens
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The city had just bought one of those high-tech simulators before I retired and the state police also had one but a simulation will always be just a simulation real life has far more variables. One being simulators don’t shoot real bullets. They make nice video games.
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In a circular firing squad, the bullets tell the facts.
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Everybody is aware of gravity and how it effects bullets when fired over a long distance. Snipers allow for wind speed as well as gravity.
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ID is listed as educational programing the reason there isn’t a Husbands with knives is that it is not the preferred weapon of men.
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We know that most mass murderers are gun nuts and most gun nuts are NRA members it is only common sense that the two groups intersect. It is extremely hard to find something that is deliberately kept secret. As long as the NRA refuse to publish their membership list anything is pure speculation.
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When is the last time you saw the media list a mass murderer as having a library card or being a member of any other organization? I would not be surprised to find that Adam Lanza was an NRA member he and his mother spent a good deal of time at the gun range shooting.
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The idea of supplying a free NRA membership is to pump more money into the NRA from gun manufactures
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Guns are dangerous and anyone that owns is subject to impulsively kill someone when angry or commit suicide.
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I don’t want to see the NRA officers gone I want to see them in prison where they belong for laundering Russian money into Trump’s campaign in order to get a foot hold in Russia.
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There are mass shooters in the NRA. Why else would they be a gun nut?
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The AR-15 is the same assault weapon with the same capability.
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You can’t have a range from 500,000 to 2.5 million. If you are counting actual instances it should be a cold hard figure. The figure for murders is not 500,000 to 2.5 million it is a specific number. Your figure is someone at the NRA making a guesstimate. The people that need an AR-15 to defend their home are usually drug dealers or other criminals.
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As long as you have an arm to bear your constitutional rights have been met.
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As long as you have an arm to bear there is no infringement.

oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 16 Oct, 2019 12:14 am
@Zardoz,
Zardoz wrote:
It is not vague, it is extremely specific, a right to bear arms is just that "a right to bear arms" and as long as you have an arm to bear that specific statement has been met in full.

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment forbids restrictions on guns that cannot be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
ArmaLite was granted a patent for the AR-15 because it could chamber shells at a 900 round a minute rate far superior to anything on the market at that time.

That is incorrect. The German MG-42 was able to fire at 1500 rounds per minute back in 1942.


Zardoz wrote:
It is the speed that it reloads that makes the difference semi-automatic hunting rifles can't come close to chambering shells at 900 rate per minute.

That's why you are wrong to claim that semi-auto-only hunting rifles like the AR-15 can fire that fast.


Zardoz wrote:
To a mass murderer speed makes all the difference in getting record body counts.

No mass murderer has ever used an assault weapon in the US.

Assault weapons have been tightly regulated for the past 85 years, and people are only allowed to have them if they were manufactured and registered more than 33 years ago.


Zardoz wrote:
The ones that we want to ban are the assault weapons that are designed to fire at a 900 round a minute rate. Those that were designed to slaughter huge numbers of people.

Then why do you spend page after page attacking semi-auto-only hunting rifles like the AR-15?


Zardoz wrote:
The vast majority of high body count mass murders are done with assault weapons.

That is incorrect. No mass murder has ever been carried out with assault weapons in America.


Zardoz wrote:
We already know that the AR-15 can be converted to full-automatic.

Every gun can be converted to full automatic.


Zardoz wrote:
It is not vague it is very specific and as long as you have an arm available it has been met fully and completely.

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment forbids restrictions on guns that cannot be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
It is the assault weapons in general that need banned not just a couple of specific models.

Assault weapons have been tightly regulated for the past 85 years, and people are only allowed to have them if they were manufactured and registered more than 33 years ago. No assault weapon has ever been used in a massacre in the US.

There doesn't seem to be any need to ban them.


Zardoz wrote:
It isn't scary looking that is the problem,

Then why do you spend page after page attacking ordinary hunting rifles for their scary looks?


Zardoz wrote:
it is one high body count mass murder after another mass murder done with assault weapons that scares people any time their children go to school, they go to a restaurant, or go to a theater. That what scares people not the looks of assault weapons.

No mass murder has ever been carried out with assault weapons in the US.


Zardoz wrote:
ID is listed as educational programing the reason there isn't a Husbands with knives is that it is not the preferred weapon of men.

Countless men have killed each other with edged weapons throughout human history.


Zardoz wrote:
I don't want to see the NRA officers gone I want to see them in prison where they belong for laundering Russian money into Trump's campaign in order to get a foot hold in Russia.

No actual crime means no actual prison.


Zardoz wrote:
There are mass shooters in the NRA.

No there aren't.


Zardoz wrote:
Why else would they be a gun nut?

Because Americans like being free. The real question is why are progressives freedom haters.


Zardoz wrote:
The AR-15 is the same assault weapon with the same capability.

That is incorrect. Assault weapons:

a) are capable of either full-auto or burst-fire,

b) accept detachable magazines,

c) fire rounds that are less powerful than a standard deer rifle, and

d) are effective at a range of 300 meters.


This means that semi-auto-only guns are not assault weapons.

This means that guns with fixed magazines are not assault weapons.

This means that guns that fire rounds equal-to or greater-than the power of a standard deer rifle are not assault weapons.

This means that guns that fire handgun/shotgun/rimfire rounds are not assault weapons.


Zardoz wrote:
You can't have a range from 500,000 to 2.5 million.

Sure you can.


Zardoz wrote:
If you are counting actual instances it should be a cold hard figure.

In this case though it is an estimate.


Zardoz wrote:
Your figure is someone at the NRA making a guesstimate.

That is incorrect. It was the Centers for Disease Control making a guesstimate on the orders of the Obama Administration.


Zardoz wrote:
The people that need an AR-15 to defend their home are usually drug dealers or other criminals.

What's this "need" nonsense? Americans use AR-15s because they choose to do so, not because of any need.


Zardoz wrote:
As long as you have an arm to bear your constitutional rights have been met.

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment forbids restrictions on guns that cannot be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
As long as you have an arm to bear there is no infringement.

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment forbids restrictions on guns that cannot be justified as serving a compelling government interest.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 Oct, 2019 11:13 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
Bureaucrats don’t make laws politicians make laws and they are elected by the people.

Bureaucrats make regulations, politicians make laws. It's very easy to disprove your claim by noting the FDA, EPA, and any other level of govt that gets to tell us what we can and can't do. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

Quote:
It is not vague, it is extremely specific, a right to bear arms is just that “a right to bear arms” and as long as you have an arm to bear that specific statement has been met in full. The founding fathers have never been accused of being vague.

Using the term arms is vague, it leave open for any type of weapon the population wants to own. Your uneducated opinion on gun laws is laughable.

Quote:
ArmaLife was granted a patent for the AR-15 because it could chamber shells at a 900 round a minute rate far superior to anything on the market at that time.

You actually have zero proof of such claims. The AR was granted it's patent because it was a mostly aluminum gun with a new type of loading mechanism. It had nothing to do with how quick it could load ammo. Besides you have provided zero proof of this 900 round per minute claim on the AR. I've provided the actual rate of fire in several links you choose to ignore because they don't fit your propaganda.

Quote:
The ones that we want to ban are the assault weapons that are designed to fire at a 900 round a minute rate. Those that were designed to slaughter huge numbers of people.

Actual proof that it shoots this fast, doesn't exist. You are continuing to mix up the M-16 with the AR-15.

Quote:
Those that were designed to slaughter huge numbers of people.

You also fail to understand bullet ballistics. These weapons were not meant to kill, they were meant to wound. I've already explained military doctrine on the use of these weapons, and your propaganda doesn't fit the actual usage or training with these weapons.

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That is exactly what the video was about, hiding an assault weapon in a block of wood.

They weren't hiding anything, they were disproving the claims of the anti-gun groups and showing that the left is only concerned with how weapons look and not how they work.

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I looked at an AR-15 on line and it would take a huge block of wood to fit an AR-15 in.

No it wouldn't. The actual parts of the weapon would easily fit into a standard wood stock made for the actual gun parts.

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The assault weapon he used for the demo must have been a micro mini assault weapon.

No, it was a standard semi-auto rifle, it called a Ruger Ranch Rifle and it shoots the same ammo as the AR-15, either .223 or 5.56. The full auto version fires 750 rounds per minute, the semi-auto version can't do that. It's the same with all semi-auto rifles.

Quote:
Those shooting with hand guns are gang member, husband shooting wives, or wives shooting husbands, parents shooting teenagers because they were mistaken for a prowler coming in late.

Wrong again, many mass shooters have used handguns in their crimes, in fact more handguns have been used than smei-auto rifles. The latest FBI crime report shows that rifles were the least used weapons of murder, more people were killed with knifes than with rifles.
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/10/fbi-stats-show-5-times-more-murders-by-knives-than-rifles-in-2018/
Quote:
The rifle category of firearms is a broad one comprised of bolt, pump, and lever-action firearms in addition to semi-automatic firearms like AR-15s, suggesting semi-automatic rifles comprise an even smaller number than the 297 total murders by rifle in 2018.

Handguns were the primary firearm used in murders, having been used in 6,603 of the firearm-related murders, while shotguns were used in 235 murders, “other guns” were used in 167 and unspecified types of firearms accounted for the 2,963 remaining firearms-related murders.

The ratio of knife-to-rifle related deaths also grew from the previous year’s statistic of more than four knife murders for every one murder with a rifle.

Blunt objects were also used more than rifles, accounting for 443 deaths. Murderers even used their hands and feet more often than rifles, accounting for 672 murder victims in 2018.


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Nothing is going to protect you from your gun nut neighbors and relatives other than if you make sure you don’t socialize with the gun nut crowd.

It isn't the "gun nuts" committing the crimes you like to talk so much about. Besides I have my own weapons to protect my family.

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We already know that the AR-15 can be converted to full-automatic.

It isn't an easy process to do and it isn't reliable. Not to mention it is illegal to do such a conversion.

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One mass murder worked as a gun smith in a machine shop.

Got any proof of this claim? So much of what you claim is a lie and propaganda.

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We know for a fact that the Pulse night club shooter assault weapon chambered at a 130 round a minute rate.

It did no such thing and you have failed to prove anything you have claimed.

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If the gun smith had converted an AR-15 it would fire at a 900 round a minute rate.

More anti-gun fantasy. If it's so easy to convert these weapons, how come not a single one has been used in a mass shooting event? You are living in a fantasy world.

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It was a school mass murderer who did not kill near as many people because he could not find his dad’s AR-15.

Once again, can you even come close to proving this? You talk so much **** with no proof.

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I suspect that was in the book “Mass Killers.” My memory is not nearly as good as it used to be. I flunked that part of my physical.

You suspect nothing as nothing you claim can be proven. Your own admittance of memory issues makes everything you claim suspect.

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It is not vague it is very specific and as long as you have an arm available it has been met fully and completely.

That isn't how the Constitution works.

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It is the assault weapons in general that need banned not just a couple of specific models.

You mean semi-auto rifles, that's what the AR-15 is. Good luck banning them again, the SC will not rule in the gun grabbers favor. A majority of the "proof" you have is propaganda.

Quote:
It isn’t scary looking that is the problem, it is one high body count mass murder after another mass murder done with assault weapons that scares people any time their children go to school, they go to a restaurant, or go to a theater. That what scares people not the looks of assault weapons.

Those people are living in fear of something that likely won't happen to them, you can thank the MSM for spreading this fear and promoting mass shootings.

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Most mass murderers kill themselves but some just give up when they see the police.

You keep saying this, but you provide zero proof of your claims. The double weekend shooting in TX and OH prove you wrong. One shooter was killed by police, the other shooter was captured and will be judged.

Quote:
Wikipedia has article that list 134 pages of murderers who committed suicide. “Category: Murders who committed suicide” They may not all be mass murderers but, in the thousands listed you can be sure there are at least 30 mass murderers.

So you continue to make vague and disprovable claims and then mix it in with a little bit of truth... you are very disingenuous.

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I just reported the facts as they took place, they formed a circular firing squad and started firing.

You didn't report any facts, you posted propaganda and then failed to provide the proof of your claims, like you do with 90% of the crap you post.

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There is no question that police officer was killed by another police office bullet. There is only one way that can happen.

It does happen, but it happens for many reasons. Bad setup at the scene or in most cases, **** hits the fan and people start moving around and then move into the line of fire of another officer.

The use of the term "circular firing squad" is meant to be in insult against those with guns. Nothing factual in your useage other than you don't like cops.

Quote:
The city had just bought one of those high-tech simulators before I retired and the state police also had one but a simulation will always be just a simulation real life has far more variables. One being simulators don’t shoot real bullets. They make nice video games.

This is why so many police forces have moved to shoot rooms instead. You are about 10 years behind the curve on police tactics.

Quote:
In a circular firing squad, the bullets tell the facts.

No, your propaganda is trying to tell a tale.

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Everybody is aware of gravity and how it effects bullets when fired over a long distance. Snipers allow for wind speed as well as gravity.

So you don't know anything about bullet ballistics and trajectories of different firearms... good to know you keep putting your uneducated opinion out there.

Quote:
ID is listed as educational programing the reason there isn’t a Husbands with knives is that it is not the preferred weapon of men.

More baseless opinion? ID is not an educational channel, unless you consider watching the channel and figuring out how to get away with a crime. Not even their own Wikipedia page claims they are an educational channel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigation_Discovery
Quote:
Investigation Discovery (often abbreviated ID) is an American pay television network owned by Discovery, Inc. that features documentary-style programming dealing with true crime subjects, mostly those of a violent nature (primarily homicides and attempted homicides, but also kidnappings, stalkings, sexual assaults, domestic violence, disappearances, and arsons). As of February 2015, approximately 86,062,000 American households (73.9% of households with television) receive Investigation Discovery.[1]


Quote:
We know that most mass murderers are gun nuts and most gun nuts are NRA members it is only common sense that the two groups intersect. It is extremely hard to find something that is deliberately kept secret. As long as the NRA refuse to publish their membership list anything is pure speculation.

Keep using this disproved circular faulty logic. Not one single mass shooter has been an NRA member. Your bad propaganda is getting worse.

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When is the last time you saw the media list a mass murderer as having a library card or being a member of any other organization?

If the media finds out that someone belongs to a group they disagree with, they are likely to publish the info, they have an agenda.

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I would not be surprised to find that Adam Lanza was an NRA member he and his mother spent a good deal of time at the gun range shooting.

The media tried this ploy and failed. The only thing found in the Lanza home were certificates from NRA approved classes, which is not the same thing as being an NRA member. The very fact you can't provide even one factual news story linking the NRA to a mass shooting is because not a single member of the NRA has been involved with such shootings. Only in the sick and demented mind like yours is there any link. The media tries to pin every mass shooting on the NRA and they come up empty every time.

Quote:
The idea of supplying a free NRA membership is to pump more money into the NRA from gun manufactures

It's actually to educate people on their 2nd Amendment Rights. We know the media isn't going to educate people on their 2nd Amendment rights, they are too busy pushing propaganda to remove those rights. Besides, you do know that there are several 2nd Amendment rights groups out there, the NRA is just the most well known.

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Guns are dangerous and anyone that owns is subject to impulsively kill someone when angry or commit suicide.

This is another gun grabber fantasy. With as many guns as there are in the US, if gun owners were as violent as you claim, we would have a murder rate 10x higher than it really is. Gun owners on average are non-violent people who only want to protect their families and property.

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I don’t want to see the NRA officers gone I want to see them in prison where they belong for laundering Russian money into Trump’s campaign in order to get a foot hold in Russia.

Keep pushing that lie.

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There are mass shooters in the NRA. Why else would they be a gun nut?

This again. You have failed for over a month now to prove this claim, instead you keep saying it like it's real. Only in your head is it real.

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The AR-15 is the same assault weapon with the same capability.

Wrong again, no selective fire switch.

Quote:
You can’t have a range from 500,000 to 2.5 million. If you are counting actual instances it should be a cold hard figure. The figure for murders is not 500,000 to 2.5 million it is a specific number. Your figure is someone at the NRA making a guesstimate. The people that need an AR-15 to defend their home are usually drug dealers or other criminals.

This # was pulled from the 2013 CDC gun study on violence. There's a reason no one from the left talks about this report, it disproved everything you claim about gun owners and gun violence.








Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Wed 16 Oct, 2019 08:54 pm
@oralloy,
There is no such preexisting right to military hardware. The founding fathers were only concerned with the present when the Constitution was written. By specifying only “a right to bear arms” this limited the amount of dead hand control in the future.

There is no similarity between the America of 200 years ago and the America of today. America no longer depends on a citizen militia. We have a full-time professional military to protect the country. We have fought wars on a scale far bigger than ever imagined by the founding fathers and all done with professional soldiers. This is why dead hand control is kept to an absolute minimum by courts. Otherwise deed restrictions put in place a 100 years ago would still be in place today.
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Those five little words deliberately did not specify what arms would be allowed. It only specified that there would be an arm to bear.
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There are many court decisions that read those five words and made them into a novel the size of “War and Peace.” But little by little the absolute right to any weapon of war is no longer being upheld as the slaughter of thousands continues. The courts have ruled that laws can be passed to prohibit “dangerous and deadly weapons.”
Militia no longer exist except as social organizations so all they require are guns that fire blanks
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We professional army that cost 10 times more than any military in the world. A militia could not stop bombers and tanks it would be totally useless.
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The difference between a full-automatic and a semi-automatic is only about 1% of gun and the semis can be converted to full automatics. It is the same gun.
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Just because an assault weapon does not have the automatic fire option does not mean it is not an assault weapon.

oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 Oct, 2019 11:42 pm
@Zardoz,
Zardoz wrote:
There is no such preexisting right to military hardware.

That is incorrect. The right to keep and bear arms has existed for thousands of years.


Zardoz wrote:
The founding fathers were only concerned with the present when the Constitution was written.

That is incorrect. The Founding Fathers wanted American freedom to last forever.


Zardoz wrote:
By specifying only "a right to bear arms" this limited the amount of dead hand control in the future.

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment forbids all gun restrictions that cannot be justified as serving a compelling government interest.

And it will do so for as long as it is part of the Constitution.


Zardoz wrote:
There is no similarity between the America of 200 years ago and the America of today. America no longer depends on a citizen militia. We have a full-time professional military to protect the country. We have fought wars on a scale far bigger than ever imagined by the founding fathers and all done with professional soldiers.

That doesn't change the fact that the Second Amendment forbids all gun restrictions that cannot be justified as serving a compelling government interest, and it will do so for as long as it remains part of the Constitution.


Zardoz wrote:
Those five little words deliberately did not specify what arms would be allowed. It only specified that there would be an arm to bear.

They forbid all restrictions on guns that cannot be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
There are many court decisions that read those five words and made them into a novel the size of "War and Peace." But little by little the absolute right to any weapon of war is no longer being upheld as the slaughter of thousands continues.

So in other words, the only judicial activism here is on the part of the gun control movement. Pro-gun-control judges are ignoring the fact that the Second Amendment specifies weapons that are appropriate for militia duty.


Zardoz wrote:
The courts have ruled that laws can be passed to prohibit "dangerous and deadly weapons."

Restrictions on dangerous and unusual weapons can actually be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
Militia no longer exist except as social organizations so all they require are guns that fire blanks
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We professional army that cost 10 times more than any military in the world. A militia could not stop bombers and tanks it would be totally useless.

That isn't true. With the proper equipment, the militia could stop bombers and tanks.


Zardoz wrote:
The difference between a full-automatic and a semi-automatic is only about 1% of gun and the semis can be converted to full automatics. It is the same gun.

That is incorrect. Full-auto is not the same as semi-auto-only.


Zardoz wrote:
Just because an assault weapon does not have the automatic fire option does not mean it is not an assault weapon.

That is incorrect. Assault weapons:

a) are capable of either full-auto or burst-fire,

b) accept detachable magazines,

c) fire rounds that are less powerful than a standard deer rifle, and

d) are effective at a range of 300 meters.


This means that semi-auto-only guns are not assault weapons.

This means that guns with fixed magazines are not assault weapons.

This means that guns that fire rounds equal-to or greater-than the power of a standard deer rifle are not assault weapons.

This means that guns that fire handgun/shotgun/rimfire rounds are not assault weapons.
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Thu 17 Oct, 2019 09:58 pm
@oralloy,
You are telling me those five words “a right to bear arms” actually mean that second amendment forbid restrictions on guns that cannot be justified serving a compelling government interest. I am sorry but there is no possible way that those words remotely mean anything close. Those would be the words of a very activist judge who took an inch of Constitution and turned into a mile of BS for the NRA. The key court ruling now is that dangerous and deadly weapons may be controlled.
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The MG-42 is a machine gun that is considerably heavier than an AR-15. The MG-42 is so heavy that the pictures of it being fired showed it on a stand. One of the AR-15 innovations was making the gun much lighter so mass murderer could easily conceal it behind a floor length coat. The MG-42 was clumsy with a demonstration showing the bullets being hand fed and jamming about every five rounds. That won’t work for mass murderers.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++The AR-15 was designed and marketed as an assault weapon. That why mass murderers want assault weapons. The firing rate of a semi-automatic AR-15 is limited only by the speed of trigger finger which with practice could reach as high as 300 rounds per minute.
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Most of the high body count mass murderers are done with assault weapons, they were custom made to kill large numbers of people rapidly. Assault weapons were banned in America between 1994 and 2004.
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Think about it those semi-automatic assault weapons are the reason that we hold active shooter drills elementary schools across America. When I went to school there were drills in case of an atomic bomb but we knew the enemy was Russia now we know the enemy is the gun manufactures.
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The majority of high body count mass murders would not be possible without assault weapons.
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Guns that were not designed to be full automatics would be hard to convert without a machine shop while the parts are already made for assault weapons.
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The second amendments only gives you “a right to bear arms” not to a specific type of arms. If the founding fathers gave you a right to bear a baseball bat it does not mean they gave up the right to specify that the bat could only be three-foot long and weigh no more than LB. Your right to bear a bat has not been infringed.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is the assault weapons used in El Paso, Las Vegas, and the Pulse Night Club to name a few that are leading to more and higher body count mass murders. Those full-automatics are already effectively banned you can’t go to the corner gun store after you get fired and buy one.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ask the families of the thousands of victims of mass murderers and every school child in America who now goes to school wondering whether a gun nut is going to use them for target practice why assault weapons banned?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I don’t know who made up what you think of as definition of assault weapons but I suspect the gun manufactures made it up only after they had marketed assault weapons as assault weapons for 50 years.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They may killed with knives in history but once they got their hands-on assault weapons it much easier to kill with assault weapons. When you kill with a knife your hand is likely to slide over the blade and cut your hand open you don’t have that problem with assault weapons.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The NRA is moving into Russia and it needs the sanctions of the Russian government. The Russian spy that worked with the NRA was already arrested. The NRA was not able to account for the $30 million they gave to get Trump elected in 2016. All you have to do is follow the money all the way back to Russia.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The NRA is made up entirely of gun nuts and when gun nuts get angry, they get their guns. While the NRA keeps their membership secret all that you need do is compare the killings done with the general population of gun owners. Joining an organization does not mean the statistics don’t apply to a subset who belong to the NRA.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Guns were designed to kill people if you own a gun you hope that one day you can kill a burglar, rapist or someone you are pissed at.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The governments and the courts defined what an assault weapon is with the 1994 assault weapon ban.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If the incidents of people protect themselves with a gun were taken from actual reports there would be a real number. If it were a guesstimate you would expect that type of range because they have no clue. We had an incident at the mall this summer when a gun owner claimed that someone tried to abduct her 3-year old daughter and she pulled her gun and stopped it. The police arrested the man she identified. He was an engineer from Egypt but after security cameras footage was checked he was released and she was arrested. She made the whole thing up to meet her gun nut hero fantasy. That is the typical gun nut fantasy where that nonsense figure was made up from.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is a guesstimate there is a difference.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The NRA was the very one who had the funding taken away from the CDC so they could not show the massive amount of damage done by gun violence in America but it is alright if the CDC makes up nonsense on how gun nuts use their guns to threaten people with.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It much like a gambler needs to gamble, or a drug addict needs drugs, that is how a gun nut needs an AR-15.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There is nothing in the statemen “a right to bear arms” that forbids anything. It is a positive statement and does not forbid the government from doing anything. It simply says that you have a right to bear an arm.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is a positive statement and forbids nothing.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2019 06:21 pm
@Zardoz,
Zardoz wrote:
You are telling me those five words "a right to bear arms" actually mean that second amendment forbid restrictions on guns that cannot be justified serving a compelling government interest.

Correct.


Zardoz wrote:
I am sorry but there is no possible way that those words remotely mean anything close.

Sure there is. There is the fact that for the past 75 years the Supreme Court has held that the government can only impose a restriction on a fundamental right if that restriction can be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
Those would be the words of a very activist judge who took an inch of Constitution and turned into a mile of BS for the NRA.

No. There is no activism involved in merely upholding the Constitution.

The only activism here comes from judges who pretend that the Second Amendment does not cover weapons of war. The Second Amendment clearly specifies that it's all about ensuring the effectiveness of the militia.


Zardoz wrote:
The key court ruling now is that dangerous and deadly weapons may be controlled.

Not exactly. The term is dangerous and unusual weapons.

And controls on dangerous and unusual weapons can be justified as serving a compelling government interest.

But bans on pistol grips have nothing to do with dangerous and unusual weapons, and such bans cannot be justified as serving a compelling government interest. So outlawing pistol grips on semi-auto rifles is a grave violation of people's civil liberties.


Zardoz wrote:
The AR-15 was designed and marketed as an assault weapon.

The semi-auto-only version wasn't.

Assault weapons:

a) are capable of either full-auto or burst-fire,

b) accept detachable magazines,

c) fire rounds that are less powerful than a standard deer rifle, and

d) are effective at a range of 300 meters.


This means that semi-auto-only guns are not assault weapons.

This means that guns with fixed magazines are not assault weapons.

This means that guns that fire rounds equal-to or greater-than the power of a standard deer rifle are not assault weapons.

This means that guns that fire handgun/shotgun/rimfire rounds are not assault weapons.


Zardoz wrote:
That why mass murderers want assault weapons.

They may want them, but assault weapons have been tightly regulated for the past 85 years, and people are allowed to own them only if they were manufactured and registered more than 33 years ago.


Zardoz wrote:
The firing rate of a semi-automatic AR-15 is limited only by the speed of trigger finger which with practice could reach as high as 300 rounds per minute.

That's unlikely. And a semi-auto that was fired that fast would not be able to be aimed usefully even if it was possible for one to be fired that fast.


Zardoz wrote:
Most of the high body count mass murderers are done with assault weapons,

That is incorrect. No mass murder in the US has ever involved an assault weapon.


Zardoz wrote:
Assault weapons were banned in America between 1994 and 2004.

That is incorrect. That law unconstitutionally banned ordinary hunting rifles.


Zardoz wrote:
Think about it those semi-automatic assault weapons are the reason that we hold active shooter drills elementary schools across America.

There is no such thing as a semi-automatic assault weapon.


Zardoz wrote:
The majority of high body count mass murders would not be possible without assault weapons.

No assault weapon has ever been used in a mass murder in the US.


Zardoz wrote:
The second amendments only gives you "a right to bear arms" not to a specific type of arms.

That is incorrect. We have the right to have any weapon that there is no compelling government interest in restricting.


Zardoz wrote:
If the founding fathers gave you a right to bear a baseball bat it does not mean they gave up the right to specify that the bat could only be three-foot long and weigh no more than LB. Your right to bear a bat has not been infringed.

That is incorrect. The government is forbidden from placing any restriction on a fundamental right unless that restriction can be justified as serving a compelling government interest.

Note that the Founding Fathers did not "give" us the right to keep and bear arms. That right has existed for thousands of years. The Founding Fathers merely protected a preexisting right.


Zardoz wrote:
It is the assault weapons used in El Paso, Las Vegas, and the Pulse Night Club to name a few that are leading to more and higher body count mass murders. Those full-automatics are already effectively banned you can't go to the corner gun store after you get fired and buy one.

No assault weapon was used in those shootings, or in any other mass shooting in the US.


Zardoz wrote:
Ask the families of the thousands of victims of mass murderers and every school child in America who now goes to school wondering whether a gun nut is going to use them for target practice why assault weapons banned?

These people are not trying to outlaw assault weapons. They are trying to outlaw ordinary hunting rifles.

And senseless phobias do not justify violating people's civil liberties.


Zardoz wrote:
I don't know who made up what you think of as definition of assault weapons but I suspect the gun manufactures made it up only after they had marketed assault weapons as assault weapons for 50 years.

Nazi Germany created the term in 1944.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/StG_44


Zardoz wrote:
They may killed with knives in history but once they got their hands-on assault weapons it much easier to kill with assault weapons. When you kill with a knife your hand is likely to slide over the blade and cut your hand open you don't have that problem with assault weapons.

They solved that problem thousands of years ago. Now edged weapons have a guard for the hand.


Zardoz wrote:
Guns were designed to kill people if you own a gun you hope that one day you can kill a burglar, rapist or someone you are pissed at.

Actually self defense is all about incapacitating attackers, not killing them.

But how many people were killed by the gold medal winners in the shooting sports at the last Olympics?

Do deer hunters also hope to kill people?


Zardoz wrote:
The governments and the courts defined what an assault weapon is with the 1994 assault weapon ban.

When progressives write phony definitions into law, that does not change what words actually mean.


Zardoz wrote:
If the incidents of people protect themselves with a gun were taken from actual reports there would be a real number. If it were a guesstimate you would expect that type of range because they have no clue.

It's the best guesstimate that the CDC and the Obama Administration could come up with.


Zardoz wrote:
It is a guesstimate there is a difference.

It's not like there is a more-accurate source of numbers that is available.


Zardoz wrote:
There is nothing in the statemen "a right to bear arms" that forbids anything.

That is incorrect. It forbids all restrictions on guns that cannot be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
It is a positive statement and does not forbid the government from doing anything.

That is incorrect. The government is forbidden from placing restrictions on a fundamental right unless the restrictions can be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
It simply says that you have a right to bear an arm.

And that means the government is forbidden from restricting arms unless the restriction can be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
It is a positive statement and forbids nothing.

That is incorrect. The government is forbidden from placing restrictions on a fundamental right unless the restrictions can be justified as serving a compelling government interest.
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2019 11:01 pm
@Baldimo,
Politicians make the laws and bureaucrats may write regulation but none of those regulations can be against the law and the politicians can write the law to take any discretion away from the bureaucrats.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Arm is one of the most used words in the English language and no one has any doubt what the terms means. The term specifies that people will have access to an arm but leaves it up to the government to decide which arms will be available to bear. There are wanabees and wanasee you are the latter you imagine what you want to see those 5 little words mean.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The new type of loading mechanism is what allowed the AR-15 to chamber shells at a 900 round per minute rate and made it the best choice for mass murder. All you have to do is look for the spec sheet for the AR-15 they even point out the barrel will melt down after firing so many rounds.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
The manufactures of assault weapons have to provide at what rate it will fire to sell the guns. If I am going to buy a sports car one thing you want to know is how fast it will go at top speed and how fast it can reach 60 mph. Buying an assault weapon is no different you want to know how fast it will fire.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That makes absolutely no sense. Police shoot to kill even if you are jay walking. And a wounded enemy solider with an assault weapon is going to kill everyone in sight as long as he can pull the trigger. The military might opt for wounding but mass murderers shoot to kill judging from the body counts.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They didn’t disprove anything I can put anything in box and say see there is no reason to be afraid of a box.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We are talking about putting the whole assault weapon in a block of wood not just a few selected parts.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The ranch rifle is not the preferred assault weapon for mass murderers and no doubt because it can’t fire nearly as many rounds per minute.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Only one high body count mass murderer, those who kill 25 or more killed, used a hand gun and he chained the doors so his victims could not escape. Schools don’t have drills to protect school children from mass murderers with knives. High body count mass murderers are not done with knives and high body count mass murders are what the problem is. The old saying is that figures don’t lie but liars do figure and that is the case with that statistic it only used a subset of killings with firearms and compares with those killed all knives. Your lying statstic lists 297 people killed with guns when the actual number of people killed in 2017 was 39,717 when the number of people killed with knives is only a tiny fraction of that figure. The people killed with knives and other sharp objects, like screw drivers and shards of glass was only 1,515. That means actually only less than 4% of murders are with knives. That means there are 25 times more deaths caused by guns than knives and other sharp objects. Your figure used only those killed with rifles and hand guns are used by most professionals murderers because they can easily be concealed. Just one mass murder accounted for 59 deaths and that one incident accounted for a full 20% of those deaths. If all deaths by assault weapons were listed it would amount to over 50% of the gun deaths.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Much like a fan of a rock band is short for fanatic, gun nut denotes someone with an unhealthy attraction to guns.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It isn’t easy to assemble an arsenal either but as the incident with a mass murder who worked as a gun smith demonstrates it would be very easy for some one with the right skills to convert an AR-15 to full-automatic.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The mass murderer who worked as a gun smith was taken out of the book “Mass Killers” the book gives detailed backgrounds on a hundred or so mass murderers.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When I searched the internet for the record rate a semi-automatic assault could be fired what was returned was an article that listed the actual rate the Pulse Night Club shooter was recorded at. I gave you the article in one of my posts. It also dealt with how slow a regular semi-automatic rifle fired.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Full-automatic assault weapons have been used in mass murders. The only reason full-automatics are not used by mass murderers is that they cannot buy them at the corner gun store. Mass murders will like, water, follow the path of least resistance.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you want to learn anything you have to read something that is not on a computer monitor. You will find that in the book “Mass Killers.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
How do you expect me to show something out of a book over the internet? I can tell you where the proof is but I can’t make you read it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That is exactly how the constitution works, the words have meaning but not beyond the actual words.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Each mass murder makes the case for banning dangerous and deadly assault weapons and the Supreme court has already ruled that dangerous and deadly weapons can be regulated.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We already have people that have been victims of two different and deadly mass murders. When you have people that have been victims of two mass murder the odds are going up.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Being killed by the police indicates it was a suicide mission, just because some mass murderers chicken out, they fully expected to killed. You can’t go in and start killing people and not expect to be killed. Mass Murderers are not afraid of guns they love guns.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Eighty-four pages of murderers who committed suicide should tell you murderers aren’t afraid to die.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The circular firing squad involved the Charleston Police Department several years ago.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Circular firing squad is just reporting the facts. I had no problems with cops and was invited guest to FOP meetings.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Police Depart had half of 5th floor of a very large building for their simulator, Amazon had controlled that floor before. My office was on that floor also.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you are shot by another police officer while they are shooting at a suspect it indicative of a circular firing squad unless you were messing around with his wife, in which case his aim may be a little off.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I had a minor in mathematics I understand that there are forces that could affect bullets but they don’t turn and go backwards.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ID is not Fox News, which makes up most of contents. Fox News has Hollywood screen writers come up with their conspiracy theories and then Trump watches them and tries to pressure other countries to prove the conspiracy theory is true.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The only reason you can say that is because the NRA refuses to publish its membership list. Actually, that is extremely good reasoning. A subset of a group is likely to have the same traits as the overall group.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They have no access and no way to determine NRA membership unless the NRA makes the list public.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That looks like Lanza was working with the NRA or he would not have a certificate from the NRA.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The only thing the gun manufactures (NRA) want is to sell more death.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Forty-thousand gun deaths a year is a reality not a fantasy.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Did you not see all of the pictures of the Russian Spy at all the NRA events?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can continue to insist that people with guns don’t murder people but 40,000 gun deaths says otherwise.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can always add the selective fire switch because it is the same gun.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There is a reason no one talks about it a statistic like that is useless.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2019 08:51 pm
@Zardoz,
Zardoz wrote:
Arm is one of the most used words in the English language and no one has any doubt what the terms means. The term specifies that people will have access to an arm but leaves it up to the government to decide which arms will be available to bear. There are wanabees and wanasee you are the latter you imagine what you want to see those 5 little words mean.

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment forbids any gun restriction that cannot be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
The new type of loading mechanism is what allowed the AR-15 to chamber shells at a 900 round per minute rate and made it the best choice for mass murder.

The German MG-42 was able to fire 1500 rounds per minute long before the AR-15.


Zardoz wrote:
That makes absolutely no sense. Police shoot to kill even if you are jay walking. And a wounded enemy solider with an assault weapon is going to kill everyone in sight as long as he can pull the trigger. The military might opt for wounding but mass murderers shoot to kill judging from the body counts.

What Baldimo said makes perfect sense. The AR-15 fires bullets that are way too light to be efficient at killing humans.

The bullets are perfect for gophers and chipmunks however.


Zardoz wrote:
The ranch rifle is not the preferred assault weapon for mass murderers and no doubt because it can’t fire nearly as many rounds per minute.

As a semi-auto, it fires just as fast as any other semi-auto. But it's true that semi-auto-only guns are not assault weapons.


Zardoz wrote:
Only one high body count mass murderer, those who kill 25 or more killed, used a hand gun and he chained the doors so his victims could not escape.

The preferred weapons of high body count murderers are "bombs" and "semi trucks driven into crowds at high speed".


Zardoz wrote:
Your lying statstic lists 297 people killed with guns when the actual number of people killed in 2017 was 39,717 when the number of people killed with knives is only a tiny fraction of that figure. The people killed with knives and other sharp objects, like screw drivers and shards of glass was only 1,515. That means actually only less than 4% of murders are with knives. That means there are 25 times more deaths caused by guns than knives and other sharp objects. Your figure used only those killed with rifles and hand guns are used by most professionals murderers because they can easily be concealed. Just one mass murder accounted for 59 deaths and that one incident accounted for a full 20% of those deaths. If all deaths by assault weapons were listed it would amount to over 50% of the gun deaths.

His statistic wasn't a lie. He focused on rifles because you have been focusing on rifles. He was addressing your point.

The fact that rifles are involved in only a tiny portion of murders proves that you are wrong to treat rifles as if they are a serious problem.


Zardoz wrote:
If all deaths by assault weapons were listed it would amount to over 50% of the gun deaths.

That is incorrect. It is unlikely that a single person was killed with an assault weapon in the US in the past 10 years.


Zardoz wrote:
Much like a fan of a rock band is short for fanatic, gun nut denotes someone with an unhealthy attraction to guns.

"Gun nut" is name-calling.


Zardoz wrote:
It isn’t easy to assemble an arsenal either but as the incident with a mass murder who worked as a gun smith demonstrates it would be very easy for some one with the right skills to convert an AR-15 to full-automatic.

Someone with the right skills could convert any gun to full-automatic.


Zardoz wrote:
When I searched the internet for the record rate a semi-automatic assault could be fired what was returned was an article that listed the actual rate the Pulse Night Club shooter was recorded at. I gave you the article in one of my posts. It also dealt with how slow a regular semi-automatic rifle fired.

There is no such thing as a semi-automatic assault rifle.

All semi-auto-only rifles fire at the same rate.


Zardoz wrote:
Full-automatic assault weapons have been used in mass murders.

In the US?? If so, let's see a cite for that.


Zardoz wrote:
That is exactly how the constitution works, the words have meaning but not beyond the actual words.

That is incorrect. The Constitution forbids any regulation of a fundamental right unless that regulation can be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
Each mass murder makes the case for banning dangerous and deadly assault weapons

Not when no mass murderers have ever used such weapons in the US.


Zardoz wrote:
and the Supreme court has already ruled that dangerous and deadly weapons can be regulated.

Not quite. They said that dangerous and unusual weapons can be regulated.


Zardoz wrote:
Fox News, which makes up most of contents.

They do no such thing. They are just as reliable as any other news outlet.


Zardoz wrote:
You can always add the selective fire switch because it is the same gun.

Any gun can be converted to full-auto.


Zardoz wrote:
There is a reason no one talks about it a statistic like that is useless.

It is useful for showing that private gun ownership is highly beneficial to society.
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Sat 19 Oct, 2019 09:12 pm
@oralloy,
The only right you have to bear arms is derived from the second amendment and it deliberately did not specify exactly what weapons in order to limit dead hand control. This allows the control of guns but keeps them from being totally eliminated.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ You are of course talking about the highest freedom which is the freedom to live which guns take away. That is real freedom and every time a gun nut decides to kill people, they deprive their victims of all of their freedoms.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The second amendment does not forbid the government from doing anything it is a positive statement that gives you a “right to bear arms.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The second amendment does not forbid the government from doing anything.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For the second amendment to forbid anything it would have to list what is forbidden it doesn’t.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The second amendment does not specify the particular type of guns that people had a “right to bear.” There is no need for activist judges for gun control all they need do is read the second amendment as it is written and not imagine what is not there.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If some weapons such as full-automatic assault weapons can be controlled than other weapons can be controlled also.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There are not going to be bombers, there are going to be missiles coming in and no militia is going to stop them.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The automatic and semi-automatic assault weapons are the same weapons with only an option making the difference.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I don’t know where you got that definition but even the manufacturers sold them ass assault weapons. Now suddenly after it looks like semi-automatic assault weapons are going to be banned again now an assault weapon are no longer assault weapons. The courts will have no trouble deciding that semi-automatic assault weapons are assault weapons under the law.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 20 Oct, 2019 05:50 pm
@Zardoz,
Zardoz wrote:
The only right you have to bear arms is derived from the second amendment

That is incorrect. The right to keep and bear arms is a preexisting right that has existed for thousands of years. The Second Amendment only protects it from infringement.


Zardoz wrote:
and it deliberately did not specify exactly what weapons in order to limit dead hand control. This allows the control of guns but keeps them from being totally eliminated.

That is incorrect. The government is forbidden from passing any restrictions on guns unless those restrictions can be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
You are of course talking about the highest freedom which is the freedom to live

I am talking about all of our freedoms, including the right to keep and bear arms.


Zardoz wrote:
the freedom to live which guns take away.

That is incorrect. We use guns to protect our lives.


Zardoz wrote:
The second amendment does not forbid the government from doing anything

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment forbids infringement of the right to keep and bear arms.


Zardoz wrote:
it is a positive statement that gives you a "right to bear arms."

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment does not give anything. The Second Amendment protects a preexisting right that we've had for thousands of years.


Zardoz wrote:
The second amendment does not forbid the government from doing anything.

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment forbids the government from infringing the right to keep and bear arms.


Zardoz wrote:
For the second amendment to forbid anything it would have to list what is forbidden it doesn't.

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment lists the right to keep and bear arms as something that the government is forbidden from infringing.


Zardoz wrote:
The second amendment does not specify the particular type of guns that people had a "right to bear."

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment specifies that people have the right to keep and bear the sorts of weapons that will enable the militia to defend the nation.


Zardoz wrote:
There is no need for activist judges for gun control all they need do is read the second amendment as it is written and not imagine what is not there.

It requires activist judges in order to pretend that the Second Amendment does not specify the sorts of military weapons that the militia requires to defend the nation.


Zardoz wrote:
If some weapons such as full-automatic assault weapons can be controlled than other weapons can be controlled also.

That is incorrect. Control is allowed only if that control can be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
There are not going to be bombers, there are going to be missiles coming in and no militia is going to stop them.

Not every adversary that the militia might face will be able to fire missiles.

But for those adversaries that do fire missiles, there are missile defense systems.


Zardoz wrote:
The automatic and semi-automatic assault weapons are the same weapons with only an option making the difference.

There is no such thing as a semi-automatic assault weapon.

Assault weapons:

a) are capable of either full-auto or burst-fire,

b) accept detachable magazines,

c) fire rounds that are less powerful than a standard deer rifle, and

d) are effective at a range of 300 meters.


This means that semi-auto-only guns are not assault weapons.

This means that guns with fixed magazines are not assault weapons.

This means that guns that fire rounds equal-to or greater-than the power of a standard deer rifle are not assault weapons.

This means that guns that fire handgun/shotgun/rimfire rounds are not assault weapons.


Zardoz wrote:
I don't know where you got that definition but even the manufacturers sold them as assault weapons.

Nazi Germany created the term in 1944.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/StG_44


Zardoz wrote:
Now suddenly after it looks like semi-automatic assault weapons are going to be banned again now an assault weapon are no longer assault weapons. The courts will have no trouble deciding that semi-automatic assault weapons are assault weapons under the law.

It doesn't look like anything at all is going to be banned.

It doesn't even look like any new gun control proposal of any kind is going to be passed into law.


Here's where things stand.

Passed by House, ignored by Senate:

Bipartisan Background Checks Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr8

Enhanced Background Checks Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr1112

Violence Against Women Reauthorization Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr1585


Passed out of committee, NOT passed by either House or Senate:

Keep Americans Safe Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr1186

Extreme Risk Protection Order Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr1236

Disarm Hate Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr2708


Not even passed out of committee:

Assault Weapons Ban
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr1296
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Sun 20 Oct, 2019 10:35 pm
@Baldimo,
You must have taken the “New English” sort of like the “New Math” but most judges took the standard English” and those five little words are plain and simple. You will have an arm to bear but the people living today will decide the limits not people dead for over two centuries. Statistic now show Americans are divesting themselves of guns now 78% of Americans no longer own a gun.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
But the fundamental right is to bear an arm not an ak-47.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The right is always complaining about judges who do not stick word for word to the Constitution but when it comes to guns the right absolutely loves activist judges. There is no area of constitution that has been modified so radically as those five little words.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Just ask a school child about their active shooter drills to avoid gun nuts armed with assault weapons if you want a compelling reason. The most dangerous things a child faces now is being shot by a gun nut with an assault weapon.
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Not only was the AR-15 marketed as an assault weapon almost every piece of it is the exact same thing as the automatic assault weapon version. Your definition is not the legal definition and it never will be.
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The high body count mass murderers all want assault weapons because they are designed to kill lots of people quickly. Your definition of assault weapons is not a legal definition nor is it recognized by courts of law.
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A 300 round per minute rate is attainable and maybe the next mass murderer will break that record. As for aiming one mass murderer demonstrated the “typical assault weapon stance” demonstrating how he was going to massacre school children. Then he went to a school and massacred the children. There was one thing he wasn’t doing and that was aiming he just sprayed bullets from side to side. He was using his assault weapon exactly how it was designed to be used.
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You should try telling a mass murderer that he didn’t purchase an assault weapon. Then he would be wasting that “typical assault weapon stance.”
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Assault weapons were banned and a legal description of assault weapon was arrived at.
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You can make up any definition you like but it will never be a legal definition of assault weapons.
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Keep trying to convince people that identical assault weapons are not assault weapons.
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The second amendment had nothing to say about a compelling government interest. The second amendment gives you “a right to bear arms” it in no way restrict the government or deprives the government of any of its powers. What the assault weapons do on a regular bases is deprive their victims of all of their rights.
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You are reading things that are not there do you see ghost words? That right exist in this country only from the second amendment.
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By the legal definition the massacre at El Paso, Dayton, Las Vegas, and the Pulse night club were done with assault weapons. And soon as the gun manufacture’s liability is repealed, we will sue them out of business for flooding the streets with assault weapons.
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You can make your own definitions if you want but the courts know an assault weapon when they see it. They don’t need to fire it to know it is an assault weapon. You really don’t have any idea how many school massacres have taken place do you? It is not a phobia when you have three active shooter drills a month. That is the reality every school child in America is facing today, that some gun nut can’t wait to massacre them.
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It looks like the current batch of assault weapons were modeled after StG 44. It has a selective fire switch that means when it is firing in semi-automatic form it is still an assault weapon.
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But if you’re killing with guns you don’t need a hand guard.
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Deer hunter kill several people each year in this state. If two people go hunting only one returns in some cases. Nothing like a bunch of drunks going in the woods with guns.
We had a doctor arrested because he was shooting into another car. Of course, it was self defense no doubt he thought the other car cut him off. One guy was stuck behind a slower car, when he could get around, he pulled up beside the right side of the car and shot and killed the man’s wife, no doubt about it self defense.
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You might not like the assault weapon law but it defined assault weapons.
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That guesstimate was an assumption and we both know what assumptions do.
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If there is nothing more accurate available there is no point in bringing it up. If a car rental company told general motors they wanted to purchase from 500,000 to 2.5 million cars and wanted a price total. GM could not give them a total price without an actual number.
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You are seeing ghost words again. Contracts are written for a reason. The words govern, not what you thought should be in the contract.
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The only right you have is “the right to bear an arm” nothing more.
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It does not bring the government into it. It only preserves your right to bear an arm.
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For the government to be forbidden from any thing the actual writing has to be there and it is not.
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Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Mon 21 Oct, 2019 10:00 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
Politicians make the laws and bureaucrats may write regulation but none of those regulations can be against the law and the politicians can write the law to take any discretion away from the bureaucrats.

Yet we still have an out of control bureaucratic system making regulations that were not approved by the politicians. I'll point out the FDA and EPA as perfect examples. When a politician tries to do anything against them, they throw a fit and cry on national TV, like they have the right to control the public.

Quote:
Arm is one of the most used words in the English language and no one has any doubt what the terms means. The term specifies that people will have access to an arm but leaves it up to the government to decide which arms will be available to bear.

No where in the Constitution does it say there is a limit allowed, in fact the 2nd Amendment says just the opposite, it says as the last sentence, "Shall not be Infringed." No matter how you try to turn it, putting any restrictions on the 2nd Amendment is a violation of shall not be infringed.

Quote:
There are wanabees and wanasee you are the latter you imagine what you want to see those 5 little words mean.

You are the one who is the wannasee, you never read the amendment straight, you always read it with a caveat that doesn't exist. Shall not be infringed is pretty clear in what it means.

Quote:
The new type of loading mechanism is what allowed the AR-15 to chamber shells at a 900 round per minute rate and made it the best choice for mass murder.

You continue to confuse the M16 with the AR15.

Quote:
All you have to do is look for the spec sheet for the AR-15 they even point out the barrel will melt down after firing so many rounds.

You will never find that spec sheet, it doesn't exist because the AR can't fire that many rounds a minute, it's a semi-auto rifle not automatic.

Quote:
That makes absolutely no sense.

That's because you don't understand how the bullets work and the purpose the weapon and shooting doctrine used with it. You are uneducated and talking **** about something you don't understand.

Quote:
Police shoot to kill even if you are jay walking.

Police usually shoot people with their handguns, they don't walk around with their service rifles, which are M4's, burst or automatic fire, not civilian Ar15's which only fire in semi-auto mode.

Quote:
And a wounded enemy solider with an assault weapon is going to kill everyone in sight as long as he can pull the trigger. The military might opt for wounding but mass murderers shoot to kill judging from the body counts.

Please continue to spout your lack of understanding when it comes to military fighting style. Those who know the least speak with the loudest voices.

Quote:
They didn’t disprove anything I can put anything in box and say see there is no reason to be afraid of a box.

It disproved your claim very easily. It also shows the anti-gun people are only concerned with how a weapon looks and care for nothing about how it works. You can put an AR-15 in a wooden stock and it wouldn't effect how it works at all, it would look different, that's all.

Quote:
We are talking about putting the whole assault weapon in a block of wood not just a few selected parts.

The whole assault weapon is the upper receiver, that controls all the moving parts of the gun, the lower receiver only houses the trigger, which isn't that large. The size of the actual gun has nothing to do with it's actual working parts.

Quote:
The ranch rifle is not the preferred assault weapon for mass murderers and no doubt because it can’t fire nearly as many rounds per minute.

It's just as deadly, it fires 750 round per minute if a full auto version, which once again can't be owned by civilians without a class 3 license, which goes for all auto rifles and handguns. Ruger Ranch rifles shoot the same exact round as the AR-15 and as shown in the video, can be put into a polymer stock, which makes it look scary.

Quote:
Only one high body count mass murderer, those who kill 25 or more killed, used a hand gun and he chained the doors so his victims could not escape.

Notice how you move the goal posts when I present you with facts? It's now a mass murder if it's 25 bodies or more... so to prove your point you change the meaning of something. You have a weaker mind than I originally thought.

Quote:
Your lying statstic lists 297 people killed with guns

Wow, you did it again, change things when you are proven wrong. That stat, from the FBI, is talking about the people killed with rifles specifically, not all gun deaths. In another showing of your weakness, you are trying to pass off 60% of suicides as murders. The only one pushing lying stats is you!

Quote:
The people killed with knives and other sharp objects, like screw drivers and shards of glass was only 1,515.

Compared to 297 people killed with rifles of all types... People are killed more often with knifes than they are rifles, by a lot.

Quote:
Much like a fan of a rock band is short for fanatic, gun nut denotes someone with an unhealthy attraction to guns.

You classify anyone who has a gun as a gun nut.

Quote:
It isn’t easy to assemble an arsenal either but as the incident with a mass murder who worked as a gun smith demonstrates it would be very easy for some one with the right skills to convert an AR-15 to full-automatic.

You have provided zero proof that there was a mass shooter who was a gun smith. At this point you are making things up, like you usually do.

Quote:
The mass murderer who worked as a gun smith was taken out of the book “Mass Killers” the book gives detailed backgrounds on a hundred or so mass murderers.

Then provide the guys name or something that could be searched out, anything that would prove your case.

Quote:
When I searched the internet for the record rate a semi-automatic assault could be fired what was returned was an article that listed the actual rate the Pulse Night Club shooter was recorded at. I gave you the article in one of my posts. It also dealt with how slow a regular semi-automatic rifle fired.

I've already provided you with the info on the fire rates of semi-auto rifles, you ignored it because it didn't fit your predetermined agenda for firing fast. 45-60 round per minutes just kills your claims.

Quote:
Full-automatic assault weapons have been used in mass murders.

Then provide the info for these shootings. Since you haven't provided any info on the cases, they didn't happen and you are making things up to fit your propaganda.

Quote:
The only reason full-automatics are not used by mass murderers is that they cannot buy them at the corner gun store.

So you have been claiming that they were used, now you admit that they haven't been used? Which is it?

Quote:
If you want to learn anything you have to read something that is not on a computer monitor.

That just isn't the case. There are plenty of resources on the internet for all sorts of info.

Quote:
How do you expect me to show something out of a book over the internet? I can tell you where the proof is but I can’t make you read it.

Easy, provide the names of people or the dates and places of their crimes, it can all be found with an internet search. The book did provide names didn't it? The supposed mass shooting gun smith, he had a name didn't he?

Quote:
That is exactly how the constitution works, the words have meaning but not beyond the actual words.

Says the guy who makes things up about US history and it's founding with every post...
Tell me, where is Abortion listed in the Constitution? If words have meaning, then were is abortion listed as a constitutional right?

Quote:
Each mass murder makes the case for banning dangerous and deadly assault weapons and the Supreme court has already ruled that dangerous and deadly weapons can be regulated.

They make the case for the anti-gun people, who are scared of their own shadow's.

Quote:
We already have people that have been victims of two different and deadly mass murders. When you have people that have been victims of two mass murder the odds are going up.

No, the odd's are not going up. Considering how many gun owners there are in the US and how many mass shootings there actually are, the odd's are in your favor when going out in public.

Quote:
Being killed by the police indicates it was a suicide mission, just because some mass murderers chicken out, they fully expected to killed. You can’t go in and start killing people and not expect to be killed. Mass Murderers are not afraid of guns they love guns.

You have failed to provide any proof that a majority of mass shooters are killed by police. Keep throwing different goals out there and keep moving those poles.

Quote:
Eighty-four pages of murderers who committed suicide should tell you murderers aren’t afraid to die.

Your source tells me nothing except you are afraid to actually share the source info. Aurora theater shooter and the El Paso shooter where both caught without being shot. The STEM shooters were also caught, even though they only killed 1 person, they still shot 8 others.

Quote:
The circular firing squad involved the Charleston Police Department several years ago.

You mean one officer was shot? Your intended use of the phrase is meant to be insulting, as only anti-police people use the phrase. We are aware of your intentions.

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I had a minor in mathematics I understand that there are forces that could affect bullets but they don’t turn and go backwards.

Math will tell you very little about ballistics, you would be better off using physics or just reading about the different ballistics of bullets. A 9mm bullet travels differently than a 5.56 bullet and that is different than a 7.62 and that is different than a 300 Blackout. Each caliber of bullet travels differently, they just don't fly flat and then loose altitude.

Quote:
ID is not Fox News, which makes up most of contents.

Actually no they don't. Fox News is much closer to the truth than CNN or MSNBC. Have you seen the latest release from Project Veritas? CNN is getting busted for their crap, you can bet the rest of the MSM will protect them.

Quote:
The only reason you can say that is because the NRA refuses to publish its membership list.

The only reason I can say this is because it's true. No mass shooter has been a member of the NRA.

Quote:
Actually, that is extremely good reasoning. A subset of a group is likely to have the same traits as the overall group.

More nonsense with no basis in reality. No mass shooter has been an NRA member, the media would have found it and reported it. No reports, no NRA member.

Quote:
They have no access and no way to determine NRA membership unless the NRA makes the list public.

That is just a lie and you know it. You keep going to this circular logic and you can't prove it.

Quote:
That looks like Lanza was working with the NRA or he would not have a certificate from the NRA.

Wrong again, that's what the MSM tried and gave up on. Do the search yourself and you will fail just like they did.

Quote:
The only thing the gun manufactures (NRA) want is to sell more death.

First off the NRA is not the gun manufactures, the NRA is the average citizen who wants to protect the 2nd Amendment. The gun manufactures have their own lobby group, the NSSF, National Shooting Sports Foundation.

Quote:
Forty-thousand gun deaths a year is a reality not a fantasy.

60% of those deaths were suicide, and only 267 were murders with the rifles you want to ban. The vast majority of those murders are from gang violence, something new gun laws will have zero impact on.

Quote:
Did you not see all of the pictures of the Russian Spy at all the NRA events?

Yeah, it's odd that the US govt didn't tell those people involved that a possible Russian spy was working them. They did it when Russian spys were getting close to prominent Dems in 2012, they notified them and then arrested the entire spy ring. It's a shame that the Obama admin played politics against their own country to taint the opposing political party.

Quote:
You can continue to insist that people with guns don’t murder people but 40,000 gun deaths says otherwise.

I have never said such a thing, don't put words in my mouth. I've said no mass shooters were NRA members. Not at all the same thing.

Quote:
You can always add the selective fire switch because it is the same gun.

No, you just can't add a selective fire switch, there are many internal parts still missing. If it were so easy, you would have at least 1 mass shooter who had modified their gun to fire full auto. It hasn't happened though.

Quote:
There is a reason no one talks about it a statistic like that is useless.

Wrong again, the MSM and Dems don't talk about it because it doesn't support their agenda or propaganda. It's why it's ignored, it goes against everything they claim about guns and gun owners.













0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Mon 21 Oct, 2019 01:05 pm
@Zardoz,
Quote:
You will have an arm to bear but the people living today will decide the limits not people dead for over two centuries. Statistic now show Americans are divesting themselves of guns now 78% of Americans no longer own a gun.

Why are you ignoring the last part of the Amendment? Shall not be infringed, this phrase only appears in the 2nd Amendment and in no other Amendment, why is that? The FF knew there would be people like you, who would seek to get rid of the 2nd Amendment. They had just finished fighting a tyrannical govt, why would they limit the types of weapons people could have?

Quote:
But the fundamental right is to bear an arm not an ak-47.

The primary reason behind the amendment was to allow the people to fight against the govt., why would they put something in place that would allow the govt to out gun the people? You make no sense and don't seem to understand the founding of this nation.

Quote:
The right is always complaining about judges who do not stick word for word to the Constitution but when it comes to guns the right absolutely loves activist judges. There is no area of constitution that has been modified so radically as those five little words.

You seem to be forgetting the 4 words that are only in the 2nd Amendment, Shall not be infringed.

Quote:
Just ask a school child about their active shooter drills to avoid gun nuts armed with assault weapons if you want a compelling reason. The most dangerous things a child faces now is being shot by a gun nut with an assault weapon.

You mean shooters armed with guns period. There are more school shootings with handguns than with rifles. As was noted in a different post, there are more murders with knifes than all types of rifles. We would have less school shootings if we got rid of the "gun free zones".

Quote:
Not only was the AR-15 marketed as an assault weapon almost every piece of it is the exact same thing as the automatic assault weapon version. Your definition is not the legal definition and it never will be.

You mean they marketed it to the military as an full auto weapon? Civilians can't purchase full auto rifles, they can only purchase semi-auto rifles and those do not have selective fire switches. There is a major difference between full auto and semi-auto, stop confusing them.

Quote:
The high body count mass murderers all want assault weapons because they are designed to kill lots of people quickly. Your definition of assault weapons is not a legal definition nor is it recognized by courts of law.

If that were the case, how come only 297 people were killed with all rifles combined? The vast majority of gun deaths and even mass shootings are done with gun other than AR type guns.

Quote:
A 300 round per minute rate is attainable and maybe the next mass murderer will break that record.

Sorry, they won't be able to fire that fast, they have to reload. Those numbers you keep talking about are only viable with a full auto gun and no need to reload, just stop spreading the propaganda.

Quote:
As for aiming one mass murderer demonstrated the “typical assault weapon stance” demonstrating how he was going to massacre school children.

There is no such things as a "typical assault weapon stance". You are now making things up for dramatic flair and propaganda.

Quote:
You should try telling a mass murderer that he didn’t purchase an assault weapon. Then he would be wasting that “typical assault weapon stance.”

More propaganda.

Quote:
Assault weapons were banned and a legal description of assault weapon was arrived at.

It was all political in nature, it had no basis in real weapons terminology. They looked at scary rifles and chose those cosmetic features to ban. You are a prime example of that ignorance.

Quote:
Keep trying to convince people that identical assault weapons are not assault weapons.

Looking the same has nothing to do with how they actually operate.

Quote:
The second amendment had nothing to say about a compelling government interest.

This isn't my argument, it's belongs to O. To answer anyways, it does, Shall not Infringe is also part of the Amendment and the only amendment with this wording.

Quote:
The second amendment gives you “a right to bear arms” it in no way restrict the government or deprives the government of any of its powers. What the assault weapons do on a regular bases is deprive their victims of all of their rights.

The Amendment's give us nothing, they are ours and not granted, that's where you get the Constitution twisted. It's a limit on the Federal govt, not a limit on what people can do. No one grants us our Rights, certainly not the govt. they are ours by being alive. You fail to understand what a Right truly is, people like you shouldn't be allowed near any form of power. This is why the the phrase "Shall not be infringed" is included in the 2nd Amendment.

Quote:
You are reading things that are not there do you see ghost words? That right exist in this country only from the second amendment.

You once again fail to understand what a Right is.

Quote:
By the legal definition the massacre at El Paso, Dayton, Las Vegas, and the Pulse night club were done with assault weapons.

Like any good propagandist, you limit your definition to a small scale and ignore the majority of mass shootings. You can't be trusted with fact's, you twist them into propaganda.

Quote:
And soon as the gun manufacture’s liability is repealed, we will sue them out of business for flooding the streets with assault weapons.

Once again proving people like you shouldn't have an ounce of power. There is good reason for those laws, they apply to all business, not just the gun makers. You can't hold a company responsible for people doing something wrong with their product, you can only sue them for a faulty product. A law like this will not pass the SC, it's blatantly unconstitutional. Figures coming form someone who doesn't understand what a Right is.

Quote:
It looks like the current batch of assault weapons were modeled after StG 44. It has a selective fire switch that means when it is firing in semi-automatic form it is still an assault weapon.

Current batch? What does that even mean? If a gun doesn't have a selective fire switch, it isn't an assault anything.

Quote:
But if you’re killing with guns you don’t need a hand guard.

What does this nonsense mean?

Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Mon 21 Oct, 2019 10:46 pm
@Baldimo,
I spent 41 years and 7 months working for government so I got an insider view of how laws are written and implemented. Bureaucrats have to work within the parameters of the law. If the law says you cannot store dangerous and deadly chemicals within 500 feet of a public waterway a bureaucrat cannot allow a coal company to store those dangerous chemicals within 20 feet of a public waterway. But Trump used an executive order to allow the dangerous chemicals back close to a public waterway. This after the public water system was poisoned and had to be shut down for a month in WV biggest city.
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Gun law has been influenced by activist judges. The founding fathers were very specific in that you have “a right to bear arms” not that you had a right “to bear an apple.” The intent of the founding fathers was clear they granted “aright to bear arms” but reserved the right of government to specify by law which arms would be legal to bear.
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It had everything to do with how fast the AR-15 would chamber shells. Aluminum has been around for many years and Just changing the material composition to aluminum would not be grounds for a patent. At the same time auto makers were changing over to aluminum and no patents were granted for these changes.
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Have Colt give you a specification sheet for the AR-15. The M-16 is just another version of the AR-15 that is tweaked so you don’t have to pull the trigger as fast.
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The police shoot to kill for one reason, as long as the criminal is alive, he is still capable of killing another police officer. War is not like touch football where you are down after you are touched. A wounded animal is far more dangerous than one that is not wounded, a wounded soldier would be just as dangerous. If the point of war is just to wound why not use BB guns and when wounded that soldier would be out of the game.
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A wolf in sheep’s clothing no doubt. Just changing the stock doesn’t change how deadly the AR-15 is.
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The AR-15 would not fit into the standard stock of a 22 rifle for instance.
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By Ruger Ranch rifle you mean mini 14. Say just like a Mini Cooper or a Cadillac Escalade they are both cars but there is a huge difference.
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I read that lie sheet that listed a tiny fraction of the murders in America. I am surprised that they did not break it down by brand name. They could get even smaller numbers then.
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The problem is high body count mass murders which are almost all done with assault weapons.
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People get angry and if a gun is in easy reach someone is likely to die. Get cut off in traffic get your gun out of the glove box and teach them a lesson. The neighbor’s kids are making to much noise? No problem just get gun.
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It is illegal to massacre 20 first graders but it doesn’t stop mass murderers so it would not stop them from converting their assault weapons to full-automatic.
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You will have to read the book for proof.
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I gave you the site before.
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It is hard to believe that no one has managed to get full-automatic weapons out of the military. When one of our renters moved out, he left behind a military shell that was 12 inches high a military unit was dispatched from another state to collect the shell. My dad had all kinds of ammunition that he bought back from WWII. It was at the point where it would get unstable. My uncle bought back his Thompson from WWII.
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Again, you will have to take up reading something other than the newspaper.
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I can’t read a book to you over the internet.
My memory is good as to the incident but not good as to page number.
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That is how the Constitution works. If I rent you house you can’t say that two cars came with the house because after all people need cars today. The lease is confined to the rental property and you can’t add something that is not in the agreement. That is the way all contracts work and the second amendment is just a contract.
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Seventy-eight present of Americans no longer own a gun and that number was far lower in 1994 when assault weapons were banned. The Supreme has already ruled dangerous and deadly weapons can be banned.
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Some people have already ben victims of two mass murders in less than a year. Keep telling yourself it can’t happen to you or your family.
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Even some mass murderers chicken out but they started with the intent of killing themselves it is their only way of escaping. They escape into eternity.
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A 134 pages of murderers who committed suicide should tell you murderers have no fear of dying.
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That was the facts, police officer dead from friendly fire incident.
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Circular firing squad is not meant to insult just report the facts.
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Maye instead of a simulator they could use real people with paint ball guns. That would make it more real.
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Bullets travel in a straight line. You aren’t shot by the officer standing beside you it is the one behind you that you need to worry about.
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Generally, police firing at a suspect don’t bother to do the math to compensate for wind speed and other variables.
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The programing on ID is listed as educational. It is fact based not fictional.
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It is not circular logic. What is the first thing you need to commit a gun crime? Who has the guns? That is simple logic. Those without guns don’t commit crimes. NRA members have guns.
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That is the key, how do they find out if the NRA keeps their membership secret?
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Timothy McVeigh was an NRA member who killed a 168 people far more than any other mass murderer. There is one of your NRA mass murderers.
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Timothy McVeigh is a good example of people educated by the NRA.
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There non violent that is why they keep a gun to blow someone away.
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The Russian spy that attended the NRA meetings has been arrested and her handler should be next.
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The biggest mass murderer in history was an NRA member.
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That is the only difference is that option.
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The reason no one on the left talks about it is that it is total and complete nonsense based on a wild ass guess.

Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Oct, 2019 10:05 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
I spent 41 years and 7 months working for government so I got an insider view of how laws are written and implemented. Bureaucrats have to work within the parameters of the law.

Good for you.

Quote:
If the law says you cannot store dangerous and deadly chemicals within 500 feet of a public waterway a bureaucrat cannot allow a coal company to store those dangerous chemicals within 20 feet of a public waterway. [/quote
That has really never been a problem with bureaucrats, the problem is them increasing regulations beyond what the law says. A better example would be what is taking place here in CO. Federal law's might say no drilling within 100 ft of a house, State law says no drilling within 500 feet of a home, and local unelected bureaucrats would try and push local regulations saying 2500 feet from a house. Thankfully the state court shutdown the unelected and said they had to abide by the state law. That's the problem with bureaucrats, they take power they don't have "for the good of the people". I have a real problem with the "I know what's better for you" mentality.

[quote]Gun law has been influenced by activist judges.

Yes, activists who want greater and greater restrictions on the 2nd Amendment.

Quote:
The founding fathers were very specific in that you have “a right to bear arms” not that you had a right “to bear an apple.” The intent of the founding fathers was clear they granted “aright to bear arms” but reserved the right of government to specify by law which arms would be legal to bear.

The vague term arm is left wide open to mean any weapon. There is no such limitiation on citizens written anywhere in the Constitution and no reservation on what laws could be passed later. You seem to be seeing "ghost words and meanings". The 2nd Amendment says Shall not be Infringed, that's the relevant portion you seem to be missing.

Quote:
It had everything to do with how fast the AR-15 would chamber shells.

It has nothing to so with the speed, it was the mechanism that it used that got the patent, it was the combination of the gas blowback system and the carrier bolt assembly. It was also the fact that soldiers going into battle could carry more ammo of the 5.56 then they could the 7.62 and the weapon was a lighter because of the aluminum alloy, which no other weapon in the US inventory was using.

Quote:
Aluminum has been around for many years and Just changing the material composition to aluminum would not be grounds for a patent.

That's not true, aluminum alloy wasn't being used in weapon design at the time.

Quote:
Have Colt give you a specification sheet for the AR-15.

You make the claim of how fast it fires, you should be the one proving what you claim. Don't be lazy and make claims others have to disprove.

Quote:
The M-16 is just another version of the AR-15 that is tweaked so you don’t have to pull the trigger as fast.

It isn't tweaked, it's a differently designed mechanism. Keep proving you don't know what you are talking about.

Quote:
The police shoot to kill for one reason, as long as the criminal is alive, he is still capable of killing another police officer.

The police are not trained to shoot to kill. A majority of people survive being shot by all sorts of people.

Quote:
War is not like touch football where you are down after you are touched. A wounded animal is far more dangerous than one that is not wounded, a wounded soldier would be just as dangerous. If the point of war is just to wound why not use BB guns and when wounded that soldier would be out of the game.

I don't teach the war doctrine, I just learned it. If you have a problem with how things work in the military take it up with the Generals. I just know you don't know what you are talking about.

Quote:
A wolf in sheep’s clothing no doubt. Just changing the stock doesn’t change how deadly the AR-15 is.

The AR15 isn't that deadly as proven in the Las Vegas shooting. Over 400 people wounded but only 58 people died. Doesn't speak that much about the "deadlyness" of the bullet being fired.

Did you bother to watch the video? The weapon in the wooden stock would be legal, the polymer stocks would be illegal. It has nothing to do with the weapon and everything about how it looks.

Quote:
The AR-15 would not fit into the standard stock of a 22 rifle for instance.

That's just a stupid comment, of course it wouldn't fit, they would make a wooden stock to fit it. That's what that video was all about. The same Ruger Ranch Rifle which shoots the same ammo as the AR15, fit into a wooden stock and polymer stock, but only the polymer stock rifle would be illegal, they based their laws off of looks and not function. All semi-auto rifles work the same, pull the trigger once and you get one bullet fired, it is physically impossible to fire more than one bullet with a single trigger pull.

Quote:
By Ruger Ranch rifle you mean mini 14. Say just like a Mini Cooper or a Cadillac Escalade they are both cars but there is a huge difference.

Ruger Ranch Rifle is the same as the mini 14. The mini14 was the military version with selective fire and full auto and the ranch rifle is the civilian version, which is semi-auto only. The military doesn't use the mini 14 any longer so only the ranch rifle is produced. They are also based off the same mechanism as the M1 Garand.

Quote:
I read that lie sheet that listed a tiny fraction of the murders in America. I am surprised that they did not break it down by brand name. They could get even smaller numbers then.

Just because it doesn't agree with your propaganda doesn't mean it's a lie. That is the actual number of people killed with rifles of all types, not just a specific type of rifle. They broke it down into handguns as well, were those numbers a lie?

Quote:
The problem is high body count mass murders which are almost all done with assault weapons.

The rare mass shootings... as the numbers prove. You like to highlight 3 shootings as "high count", and those are the most rare types of shootings that occur here in the US. As has been pointed out, Chicago has the equivalent of a mass shooting every weekend, it's all gang related crime.

Quote:
People get angry and if a gun is in easy reach someone is likely to die. Get cut off in traffic get your gun out of the glove box and teach them a lesson. The neighbor’s kids are making to much noise? No problem just get gun.

You have some sort of fantasy about how people use guns, that doesn't match reality. If anything you claimed were true, we would have 40k murders per year and we just don't approach those numbers in any way shape or form. Your claims are some sort of sick fantasy.

Quote:
It is illegal to massacre 20 first graders but it doesn’t stop mass murderers so it would not stop them from converting their assault weapons to full-automatic.

Not a single mass shooter has converted their semi-auto to full auto, stop pushing this fantasy. You have ZERO fact's to back your claims.

Quote:
You will have to read the book for proof.

Lazy lazy lazy. You can't produce your proof, so you want me to waste my time doing your homework... lazy lazy lazy.

Quote:
It is hard to believe that no one has managed to get full-automatic weapons out of the military.

It isn't surprising. If you knew anything about how military armories worked it wouldn't be a surprise to you. Instead you walk around in your fantasy world and think it's real.

Quote:
I can’t read a book to you over the internet.
My memory is good as to the incident but not good as to page number.

It shouldn't be that hard to pull a name from the book, they have chapters with page #'s attached.

Quote:
That is how the Constitution works. If I rent you house you can’t say that two cars came with the house because after all people need cars today. The lease is confined to the rental property and you can’t add something that is not in the agreement. That is the way all contracts work and the second amendment is just a contract.

Nothing you have said here relates to the Constitution.

Quote:
Seventy-eight present of Americans no longer own a gun and that number was far lower in 1994 when assault weapons were banned. The Supreme has already ruled dangerous and deadly weapons can be banned.

You will have to provide some facts on this claim. I don't believe it in the least bit.

Quote:
Some people have already ben victims of two mass murders in less than a year. Keep telling yourself it can’t happen to you or your family.

Some people? You mean 2 people? Mass shootings of the type people are worried about are rare, they don't happen as often as the media want's people to believe they do.

Quote:
A 134 pages of murderers who committed suicide should tell you murderers have no fear of dying.

Like your typical word games, you are linking all murders with mass shooters. Why do you always have to play the bait and switch game with subjects? It's so dishonest.

Quote:
That was the facts, police officer dead from friendly fire incident.

That is a much better description, not the loaded one you were using before.

Quote:
Circular firing squad is not meant to insult just report the facts.

Yes it is, that's exactly why you were using it. Circular firing squad is used to denote the people involved are idiots. You know very well what you were saying and why you were saying it.

Quote:
Maye instead of a simulator they could use real people with paint ball guns. That would make it more real.

That's exactly what a shoot house is. They use Airsoft guns because of the realism of the weapons and tactics that they imploy. Can't do that with paint ball guns. I knew a guy back in the mid 2000's who ran a business that did exactly this.

Quote:
The programing on ID is listed as educational. It is fact based not fictional.

It might be listed as educational, but that would be a hold over from their connection to the Discovery Channel. ID is infotainment, it is sensationalized to make a TV shows. They seem to have a lot of programs that highlight women as killers. Do we take that to mean a majority of murders are committed by women? No, that's the sensationalism of TV programs.

Quote:
Generally, police firing at a suspect don’t bother to do the math to compensate for wind speed and other variables.

They are trained to take into account where the bullet they are going to fire is going to go. This is basic training for all firearms classes, to include CCW, be aware of what's behind your target. That's why I don't have target ammo in my gun at home that I use for personal protection. I use frangible rounds for self-defense, you don't want over penetration of the target and you don't want them going through walls and hitting other people.
https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/what-is-frangible-ammo/

Quote:
It is not circular logic. What is the first thing you need to commit a gun crime? Who has the guns? That is simple logic. Those without guns don’t commit crimes. NRA members have guns.

You are doing it again. Now you have added faulty logic to the discussion. Your correlation doesn't equal causation, faulty logic.

Quote:
That is the key, how do they find out if the NRA keeps their membership secret.

I've already explained how it works. For working with a police force before, you don't seem to understand how investigations work, what evidence is. The only reason the left would want a list of NRA members is to harass them. It's a tactic of the left that is disgusting.

Quote:
Timothy McVeigh was an NRA member who killed a 168 people far more than any other mass murderer. There is one of your NRA mass murderers.

Oh, you found someone involved with a mass crime that was an NRA member. He didn't kill anyone with a gun. The claim you made was that mass shooters were NRA members, you have failed to prove you point again. So instead you move the goal posts to try and prove a point.

I never claimed people in the NRA hadn't killed people or committed crimes, I simply said they weren't mass shooters, you have still failed to make that point.

Quote:
Timothy McVeigh is a good example of people educated by the NRA.

No, he isn't. Just when I didn't think your BS couldn't get any worse, you come up with this one.

Quote:
There non violent that is why they keep a gun to blow someone away.

What does this mean? You keep making things up.

Quote:
The Russian spy that attended the NRA meetings has been arrested and her handler should be next.

She has already gone through court and given jail time. The question is why didn't the Obama govt notify the US citizens involved that there was a spy in their mix? It was a setup against the NRA to discredit them. Obama should be ashamed but narcissists don't feel shame.

Quote:
The biggest mass murderer in history was an NRA member.

You really need to stop making things up. You see the smallest glint and you think you have gold, you really have pyrite.

oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 22 Oct, 2019 08:19 pm
@Zardoz,
Zardoz wrote:
You must have taken the "New English" sort of like the "New Math" but most judges took the standard English" and those five little words are plain and simple. You will have an arm to bear but the people living today will decide the limits not people dead for over two centuries.

That is incorrect. Limits are allowed on a fundamental right only if those limits can be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
But the fundamental right is to bear an arm not an ak-47.

The AK-47 is an arm.


Zardoz wrote:
The right is always complaining about judges who do not stick word for word to the Constitution but when it comes to guns the right absolutely loves activist judges.

That is incorrect. The only activist judges here are the ones who pretend that the Second Amendment does not specify the sort of military weapons that the militia needs to defend the nation.


Zardoz wrote:
There is no area of constitution that has been modified so radically as those five little words.

The only modification so far has been where judges ignore the fact that the Second Amendment specifies the sort of military weapons that the militia needs to defend the nation.


Zardoz wrote:
Just ask a school child about their active shooter drills to avoid gun nuts armed with assault weapons if you want a compelling reason. The most dangerous things a child faces now is being shot by a gun nut with an assault weapon.

That is incorrect. No student has ever been in danger of being shot with an assault weapon.


Zardoz wrote:
Not only was the AR-15 marketed as an assault weapon

I do not know if the semi-auto-only version has been marketed as an assault weapon. I've certainly seen no evidence of such marketing. If such marketing did happen, it was inaccurate.


Zardoz wrote:
almost every piece of it is the exact same thing as the automatic assault weapon version.

The ability to fire full-auto or burst-fire is a substantial difference.


Zardoz wrote:
Your definition is not the legal definition and it never will be.

I provided the actual definition. If politicians write a fraudulent definition into law, that does not change what the word actually means.


Zardoz wrote:
The high body count mass murderers all want assault weapons because they are designed to kill lots of people quickly.

Maybe so, but assault weapons have been tightly regulated in the US for the past 85 years, and people are allowed to own them only if they were manufactured and registered more than 33 years ago. No mass murderer has ever been able to get their hands on an assault weapon in the US.


Zardoz wrote:
Your definition of assault weapons is not a legal definition nor is it recognized by courts of law.

It is the actual definition of the word however. If politicians write a fraudulent definition into law, that does not change what the word actually means.

If politicians write a law defining the sky as being yellow-colored, the sky will still be blue.


Zardoz wrote:
A 300 round per minute rate is attainable

No it isn't.


Zardoz wrote:
and maybe the next mass murderer will break that record.

They won't. And they wouldn't kill many people while trying to break it.


Zardoz wrote:
As for aiming one mass murderer demonstrated the "typical assault weapon stance" demonstrating how he was going to massacre school children.

The typical assault weapon stance is to shoulder the rifle and aim it.


Zardoz wrote:
Then he went to a school and massacred the children. There was one thing he wasn't doing and that was aiming he just sprayed bullets from side to side.

If he killed a lot of people, that means he was aiming.


Zardoz wrote:
He was using his assault weapon exactly how it was designed to be used.

He wasn't using an assault weapon, because no assault weapon has ever been used in a mass murder in the US.


Zardoz wrote:
You should try telling a mass murderer that he didn't purchase an assault weapon.

I don't have many opportunities to talk with mass murderers.


Zardoz wrote:
Then he would be wasting that "typical assault weapon stance."

The typical assault weapon stance is to shoulder the rifle and aim it. If he was properly aiming his gun, that is how they are supposed to be fired.


Zardoz wrote:
Assault weapons were banned

That is incorrect. That law only banned ordinary hunting rifles.


Zardoz wrote:
and a legal description of assault weapon was arrived at.

Fraudulent definitions don't count.


Zardoz wrote:
You can make up any definition you like

The only people who fabricate definitions are the politicians who write these fraudulent definitions into law.


Zardoz wrote:
but it will never be a legal definition of assault weapons.

It will however be the real definition.


Zardoz wrote:
Keep trying to convince people that identical assault weapons are not assault weapons.

Full-auto is in no way identical to semi-auto-only.


Zardoz wrote:
The second amendment had nothing to say about a compelling government interest.

The Constitution forbids any restriction on any fundamental right unless that restriction can be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
The second amendment gives you "a right to bear arms"

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment does not give anything. The Second Amendment protects a preexisting right that we've had for thousands of years.


Zardoz wrote:
it in no way restrict the government or deprives the government of any of its powers.

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment restricts and deprives the government of any ability to infringe the right to keep and bear arms.


Zardoz wrote:
What the assault weapons do on a regular bases is deprive their victims of all of their rights.

That is incorrect. No legally-registered assault weapon has ever been used in a crime in the US.


Zardoz wrote:
You are reading things that are not there

That is incorrect. The prohibition against infringing the right to keep and bear arms is very much there.


Zardoz wrote:
do you see ghost words?

No. What I see is a prohibition against infringing the right to keep and bear arms.


Zardoz wrote:
That right exist in this country only from the second amendment.

That is incorrect. The right to keep and bear arms is a preexisting right that has existed for thousands of years.


Zardoz wrote:
By the legal definition the massacre at El Paso, Dayton, Las Vegas, and the Pulse night club were done with assault weapons.

Fraudulent definitions don't count. No assault weapon has ever been used in a massacre in the US.


Zardoz wrote:
And soon as the gun manufacture's liability is repealed, we will sue them out of business for flooding the streets with assault weapons.

Their liability protections are not going to be repealed.


Zardoz wrote:
You can make your own definitions if you want but the courts know an assault weapon when they see it. They don't need to fire it to know it is an assault weapon.

The only people who are making their own definitions are the politicians who keep wrongly labeling ordinary hunting rifles as assault weapons.


Zardoz wrote:
You really don't have any idea how many school massacres have taken place do you?

I know that not one school massacre in the US has ever involved an assault weapon.


Zardoz wrote:
It is not a phobia when you have three active shooter drills a month.

That is incorrect. Any fear of assault weapons is a phobia.


Zardoz wrote:
It looks like the current batch of assault weapons were modeled after StG 44. It has a selective fire switch that means when it is firing in semi-automatic form it is still an assault weapon.

Assault weapons in the US have been tightly regulated for the past 85 years, and people are allowed to own them only if they were manufactured and registered more than 33 years ago.

No assault weapon has ever been used in a massacre in the US.


Zardoz wrote:
You might not like the assault weapon law but it defined assault weapons.

That is incorrect. Assault weapons were defined by Nazi Germany in 1944.


Zardoz wrote:
That guesstimate was an assumption and we both know what assumptions do.

It is the best number that the CDC and the Obama Administration could come up with. There isn't a more-accurate source of figures available to us.


Zardoz wrote:
If there is nothing more accurate available there is no point in bringing it up.

There is very much a point to bringing it up. It shows how beneficial widespread gun ownership is for society.


Zardoz wrote:
You are seeing ghost words again. Contracts are written for a reason. The words govern, not what you thought should be in the contract.

No ghost words. The Second Amendment clearly protects our right to keep and bear arms.


Zardoz wrote:
The only right you have is "the right to bear an arm" nothing more.

That is incorrect. We have the right to keep and bear arms.


Zardoz wrote:
It does not bring the government into it.

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment forbids the government from infringing the right to keep and bear arms.


Zardoz wrote:
It only preserves your right to bear an arm.

That is incorrect. It preserves our right to keep and bear arms.


Zardoz wrote:
For the government to be forbidden from any thing the actual writing has to be there and it is not.

The writing is very much there. The Second Amendment forbids the government from infringing the right to keep and bear arms.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 22 Oct, 2019 08:20 pm
@Zardoz,
Zardoz wrote:
Gun law has been influenced by activist judges.

Only in the sense that activist judges are ignoring the fact that the Second Amendment specifies the sorts of military weapons that the militia requires in order to defend the nation.


Zardoz wrote:
The founding fathers were very specific in that you have "a right to bear arms" not that you had a right "to bear an apple." The intent of the founding fathers was clear they granted "aright to bear arms"

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment does not grant a right. It protects a preexisting right that we've had for thousands of years.


Zardoz wrote:
but reserved the right of government to specify by law which arms would be legal to bear.

That is incorrect. The Second Amendment specifies the sorts of military weapons that the militia needs in order to fulfill their duties.


Zardoz wrote:
It had everything to do with how fast the AR-15 would chamber shells.

That is incorrect. The German MG-42 was firing at 1500 rounds per minute back in 1942.


Zardoz wrote:
Have Colt give you a specification sheet for the AR-15. The M-16 is just another version of the AR-15 that is tweaked so you don't have to pull the trigger as fast.

That is incorrect. The M-16 has full-auto capability.


Zardoz wrote:
A wounded animal is far more dangerous than one that is not wounded, a wounded soldier would be just as dangerous. If the point of war is just to wound why not use BB guns and when wounded that soldier would be out of the game.

And yet the military uses rounds that are more appropriate for killing gophers and chipmunks than they are for killing humans.


Zardoz wrote:
A wolf in sheep's clothing no doubt. Just changing the stock doesn't change how deadly the AR-15 is.

Which is why you are wrong to treat a semi-auto-only AR-15 as anything other than an ordinary hunting rifle.


Zardoz wrote:
By Ruger Ranch rifle you mean mini 14. Say just like a Mini Cooper or a Cadillac Escalade they are both cars but there is a huge difference.

There isn't much difference between a semi-auto-only AR-15 and any other ordinary hunting rifle.


Zardoz wrote:
I read that lie sheet that listed a tiny fraction of the murders in America. I am surprised that they did not break it down by brand name. They could get even smaller numbers then.

That was no lie. He was addressing your point. You wrongly claimed that rifles are some sort of problem. He provided stats that show that rifles are not a problem.


Zardoz wrote:
The problem is high body count mass murders which are almost all done with assault weapons.

That is incorrect. No mass murder in the US has ever been carried out using an assault weapon.


Zardoz wrote:
People get angry and if a gun is in easy reach someone is likely to die. Get cut off in traffic get your gun out of the glove box and teach them a lesson. The neighbor's kids are making to much noise? No problem just get gun.

Statistics show that this seldom happens.


Zardoz wrote:
It is illegal to massacre 20 first graders but it doesn't stop mass murderers so it would not stop them from converting their assault weapons to full-automatic.

And yet no mass murderer has ever managed to carry out such a conversion.


Zardoz wrote:
That is how the Constitution works. If I rent you house you can't say that two cars came with the house because after all people need cars today. The lease is confined to the rental property and you can't add something that is not in the agreement. That is the way all contracts work and the second amendment is just a contract.

The Second Amendment is a contract that forbids the government from passing any gun restriction that cannot be justified as serving a compelling government interest.


Zardoz wrote:
Seventy-eight present of Americans no longer own a gun and that number was far lower in 1994 when assault weapons were banned.

That law did not address assault weapons. It unconstitutionally banned ordinary hunting rifles.


Zardoz wrote:
The Supreme has already ruled dangerous and deadly weapons can be banned.

No they didn't. They said dangerous and unusual weapons.


Zardoz wrote:
It is not circular logic. What is the first thing you need to commit a gun crime? Who has the guns? That is simple logic. Those without guns don't commit crimes. NRA members have guns.

By that logic, police officers are criminals.


Zardoz wrote:
That is the only difference is that option.

That difference between full-auto and semi-auto-only is quite a substantial difference.


Zardoz wrote:
The reason no one on the left talks about it is that it is total and complete nonsense based on a wild ass guess.

That is incorrect. They are the best figures that the CDC and the Obama Administration could come up with.
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Tue 22 Oct, 2019 09:43 pm
@oralloy,
The second amendment only grants a right and it in no way handcuffs the government hands to control dangerous and deadly weapons.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That is where the activist judges came in trying to make laws instead of deciding whether it was constitutional. The writing has to govern and “a right to bear arms” is just that and nothing more.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Those five words is al you have and nothing more and there is no possible way to construe those words into anything but “a right to bear arms” which is met in full as long as you have an arm to bear.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“Like most rights, the Second Amendment is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever purpose.”
The Supreme Court, Heller’s Decision.
That pretty much sums it up. The Second Amendment does not give you the right “to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever.”
The most dangerous weapons in America today are the assault weapons by the extremely high body count mass murders.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No matter how many times you print that BS definition it won’t become reality.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
America is flooded with assault weapons and that is why Colt stopped selling the AR-15.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
One mass murderer demonstrated to the bartender “the typical mass murderer’s stance” rotating from right to left. Aim is unimportant to mass murderers the number of bullets fired is the main thing. After the demonstration in the bar he went to an elementary school and did it for real.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
According to Colt America is flooded with assault weapons.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That is correct that was the law of the land that banned assault weapons.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It seems even Colt would differ with you.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Assault weapons make mass murders possible.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Not according to the Supreme Court specifically ruled that you do not have the right to “keep and carry any weapon whatsoever.” That is extremely clear.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You evidently didn’t read the Heller Decision because it says the exact opposite of what you believe.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Those were assault weapons used in those mass murders, in Texas, Florida and Ohio. Mass Murderers may be looking to commit a mass murder in all fifty states much the way people do marathons.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is assault weapons they want banned because when there is a high body count mass murder you can bet there was an assault weapon used.
They should call the drills in school assault weapon drills.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can clearly see that StG-44 was used as a model for future assault weapons.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Most people when they decide to kill with a knife don’t have a guard for their knife.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you didn’t blow the intruder’s hand off, he would still be a threat.
You can always count on hunting accidents, drunks with guns are dangerous.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It was the Congress that wrote the law and Republicans cast the deciding votes on the 1994 assault weapon ban.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I can guess anything but that is just a guess and does not reflect reality.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There are actual police reports to get a number. Anybody that had to use their gun to protect themselves should report to the police. If they didn’t kill the guy, he no doubt will return with an even bigger gun. If shots are fired the police investigate.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Reread the Heller Decision and you will see that statement is wrong.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Supreme Court disagrees with you.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Supreme Court states “Like most rights, the Second Amendment rights are not unlimited.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“The Second Amendments rights are not unlimited.”

Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Wed 23 Oct, 2019 09:35 pm
@oralloy,
“A right to bear arms” does not place any restrictions on government. Rights were never intended to place restrictions on government only state the right of an individual.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The MIF-42 is a machine gun that needs a stand to fire from. The AR-15 is a much lighter assault weapon that does not require a stand to fire it from. Even the stock of the gun was widened to allow it to sit on the ground. Mass murderers are not planning to set up a machine gun nest.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If the AR-15s were not designed to kill then that makes it hard to explain why 50 or more people are killed in shooting with assault weapons. The AR-15 was such a good killer the military decided it was so superior to their weapons they had the M-16 version of the AR-15 made for the army.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
But the real experts, the successful mass murderers, prefer the AR-15s.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can’t get into a school with a truck bomb but assault weapons are the best weapons for massacres. Bombs take technical skills most mass murderers don’t possess.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is a lie because far more people are killed with guns than knives at best it was misleading.
But assault weapons are involved in nearly 100% of high body count mass murders.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Assault weapons are responsible for 50% of the murders with rifles and nearly 100% of mass murderers.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gun Nut is no worse than calling a Denver Bronco’s fan which is short for fanatic.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It would be impossible to convert a single shot 22 to full-automatic. First you need have that high-tech mechanism to chamber at 900 bullet a minute rate.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Only in your world is there no such thing as a semi-automatic assault weapon as for the rest of us we know better we have watched as assault weapons are used in one massacre after another. There are huge differences between a semi-automatics fire rate just as their huge differences between the top speed of cars. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The mass murderers in Colorado biker bar used a full-automatic. If full-automatics were available at the corner gun store mass murderers would use those instead.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Constitution does not forbid nor does it limit the governments responsibility to control dangerous and deadly weapons and the Supreme Court has stated such.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can continue to try an establish an alternate universe where an assault weapon is not an assault weapon but in this universe an assault weapon is an assault weapon.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dangerous and deadly or dangerous and unusual doesn’t make much difference the key word is dangerous.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The conspiracy theory that got Trump impeached was pandered by Fox News. The Democratic server being in the Ukraine and that Ukraine framed Russia for the 2016 election tampering would be laughed off the air if it was a pilot for a TV show but Fox News will swear it is the God’s truth and their viewers will believe anything.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No, every gun can’t be converted to full-automatic, first the gun has to be designed to be full-automatic.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
While there are positives and negatives in everything when the negatives far exceed the positives, something has to be done. One of former leading lights at Breitbart News was going around the country trying to make the case for man-boy sex. In that case the sex for him was a positive but a big negative for the children involved.
 

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The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
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