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The 2012 Presidential Election Discussion Thread

 
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 06:30 am
@H2O MAN,
i'm of the opinion that this was the doomed presidency no matter who won, i still have this weird little part of my brain that sometimes entertains conspiracy theories, that makes me think the republicans threw the election on purpose by nominating mccain/palin, because this presidency was a no win situation for the victor
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 06:50 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

When they live by the conservative talking points of less taxes without looking at how that will destroy this country, it explains why they never look into the rhetoric of their party leaders. There's no cure for stupid. When the federal deficit continues to grow, we will end up like Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland, and Portugal; bankrupt. We don't have a Germany to bail us out.

Bring down the government, or pushing the people one step closer to revolution will not destroy the country, the nation or these various people... The government out of its own failures of design, and the failures of those attracted to its wealth and power is what is dividing this people, weakening us before our enemies and making our survival perilous... I don't care how the old monster dies... The reactionary right in resisting taxation may be acting in the interest of the rich, but there is no denying that taxation has been one method of removing wealth from the people and handing it over to the rich, and what ever the excuse, the destruction of that government which support their robbery of us whether direct though profit, or through taxation is a wonderful goal... Let it fall... We could pick up the pieces of it, and build something better with it in an afternoon...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 07:05 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:



Liberal extremist and their talking points manipulate the dumbasses.
There is enough manipulation and manipulators on both sides to account for all our misery... Our manipulation began with the constitution, and it has only gotton worse... The constitution is a shell game... Here is your money, what the government was supposed to achieve; but where is the bean??? We do not have good government or the means to achieve it with the government we've got...All we have is the empty myth we are all raised with, and it has never worked, and we fought a civil war because of the failure of that document and now we are at each others throats and ready to fight each other again all because the government which was supposed to give us justice, tranquility and unity has failed us... We have not failed it, and we have not failed each other except to the extent that we have believed in the constitution rather than believing in our neighbors
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 07:09 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

I'm not saying McCain was the best the right has to offer, but a McCain presidency would probably have been much, much better than the growing oppression of Obama.
I am inclined to believe the hair products and skin oils used by black people are oppressive; but only because I have Asthma... Do you think him more oppressive than the last president???It is hard to oppose the patriot act without seeming unpatriotic; right??? I just figure it does not apply to me... I am neither patriotic, or not... I recognize it as putting the failure of government right in the people's lap... 911 was not from the government being irresponsible, but the people having too many freedoms... Right
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 07:23 am
@Fido,
I think that, if the jobs condition keeps improving each quarter Obama will be unbeatable.

The job of the right wing is to foind ANYTHING they can and try to make OBAMA the owner.
Guys like spurt dont have anything intelligent to say so they spit invective. Fortunately Obama is showing results, even the rich are reluctantly being quiet with their negatives cause , on hos watch, the stock market has turned about and is doing pretty good. 6% firts years, 15% last year and 5 % already the first quarter.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 07:34 am
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

i'm of the opinion that this was the doomed presidency no matter who won, i still have this weird little part of my brain that sometimes entertains conspiracy theories, that makes me think the republicans threw the election on purpose by nominating mccain/palin, because this presidency was a no win situation for the victor
Watch the next electiion.... The republicans don't have a single candidate to put up against Mr. Obama... That is their weakness... You need more than a question mark to beat a known quantity, and all their question marks are white on white... There is no contrast between them and the party line... They are clones, the common denominator, the average, the path of least resistence, messagers without a message...
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 08:36 am
@Fido,
Fido wrote:

Do you think him more oppressive than the last president???


Yes.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 08:37 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

I think that, if the jobs condition keeps improving each quarter Obama will be unbeatable.


Don't drink the Kool-Aid, there has been no real improvement in the job market, not even for one quarter.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 08:49 am
@Fido,
Quote:
The republicans don't have a single candidate to put up against Mr. Obama... That is their weakness...

How much more of a weakness do you need? That in itself is enough.

They also have no single major issue to attack Obama on. He inherited a severely damaged economy and, to some extent, recovery efforts have been slowed by factors beyond his control, such as the European debt crisis, and they may continue to be slowed by issues related to the aftermath of the Japanese tsunami and the current unrest in the Middle East. That Republicans continue to blame Obama for the slow rate of economic growth fails to take into account the fact that the U.S. economy does not exist in a vacuum--it is very much influenced by global events which certainly affect a still fragile recovery and which may obscure the positive gains of policies put into effect by this administration.

The unemployment figures are lower than they have been in the past two years, the stock market is rebounding nicely, and Republican claims that government spending is impeding economic growth, and their current demands for deeper budget cuts, may actually serve to weaken economic growth, particularly if they push the government into a shutdown within the week.
Quote:

The New York Times
April 1, 2011
Job Growth Alters Playbook for Obama and His Critics

“If the economy continues to improve over the next year, the fact is it will strengthen President Obama’s political position,” said Geoff Garin, a Democratic pollster. “And,” he added, “if the economy slows down in the next year, the Republicans put themselves in a position to take a good share of the blame for that, because now a good case could be made that the president had the jobs numbers moving in the right direction until the Republicans pushed through their own fiscal policies.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/02/business/02obama.html?adxnnl=1&ref=barackobama&adxnnlx=1301753012-VcCDv0bmeptqJDLJeXiIig


The Republicans need a good candidate, yes, but they also need salient issues and proposals that are more than simply attacks and empty rhetoric.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 09:33 am
@firefly,
They're going to run on the same message; "cut taxes." It'll work too, because most Americans are struggling with added fuel and food costs.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 10:01 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
They're going to run on the same message; "cut taxes." It'll work too, because most Americans are struggling with added fuel and food costs.


But the Republicans are also attacking the deficit, and advocating tax cuts isn't exactly consistent with the need for the government to increase revenue. And, some of their proposed budget cuts, such as to the I.R.S., might actually interfere with collecting some of that revenue.
Quote:
The Wall Street Journal
March 31, 2011
When Spending Cuts Raise the Deficit.

Proposed Republican cuts to the Internal Revenue Service‘s budget would be “potentially devastating” to the country’s tax system that could increase the federal deficit and lead to fewer taxes being paid, the commissioner of the agency told a House panel Thursday.

Testifying at a hearing of the House Ways & Means Committee, IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman said the proposed $603 million cut to the agency’s budget could impact the deficit many times worse than that.

Shulman said the proposed cuts would lead immediately to the IRS collecting $4 billion less in taxes. He also warned that it could lower longer term compliance by Americans. “I’m hopeful we don’t have those cuts,” Shulman said.
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/03/31/when-spending-cuts-raise-the-deficit/tab/print/


I'm also not sure that it would bother most Americans if taxes were increased for the very wealthy--those earning $250,000+ a year--rather than have tax cuts which might wind up increasing the deficit.
LionTamerX
 
  3  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 11:11 am
This is interesting... I had the chance to meet Mr Huckabee back in January at a trade show. He comes off in person as a little bit weird, but basically harmless. This shows him in a new and disturbingly creepy light.

0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 12:17 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Fido wrote:

Do you think him more oppressive than the last president???


Yes.
I haven't noticed much difference, but then, I am not doing much to hang my view out in public... I suppose most of the stuff I saw might get me disappeared in many places, and likely gets me on a to do list here... Yet, I consider it my right, and expect to keep after it... About the same to me as with Bush, and certainly not better enough to notice...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 12:23 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Quote:
The republicans don't have a single candidate to put up against Mr. Obama... That is their weakness...

How much more of a weakness do you need? That in itself is enough.

They also have no single major issue to attack Obama on. He inherited a severely damaged economy and, to some extent, recovery efforts have been slowed by factors beyond his control, such as the European debt crisis, and they may continue to be slowed by issues related to the aftermath of the Japanese tsunami and the current unrest in the Middle East. That Republicans continue to blame Obama for the slow rate of economic growth fails to take into account the fact that the U.S. economy does not exist in a vacuum--it is very much influenced by global events which certainly affect a still fragile recovery and which may obscure the positive gains of policies put into effect by this administration.

The unemployment figures are lower than they have been in the past two years, the stock market is rebounding nicely, and Republican claims that government spending is impeding economic growth, and their current demands for deeper budget cuts, may actually serve to weaken economic growth, particularly if they push the government into a shutdown within the week.
Quote:

The New York Times
April 1, 2011
Job Growth Alters Playbook for Obama and His Critics

“If the economy continues to improve over the next year, the fact is it will strengthen President Obama’s political position,” said Geoff Garin, a Democratic pollster. “And,” he added, “if the economy slows down in the next year, the Republicans put themselves in a position to take a good share of the blame for that, because now a good case could be made that the president had the jobs numbers moving in the right direction until the Republicans pushed through their own fiscal policies.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/02/business/02obama.html?adxnnl=1&ref=barackobama&adxnnlx=1301753012-VcCDv0bmeptqJDLJeXiIig


The Republicans need a good candidate, yes, but they also need salient issues and proposals that are more than simply attacks and empty rhetoric.

It is not only that if you break it you buy it... When it comes to the economy, if you can't fix it you have to own it... Mr. Obama has bought into the economy... His is a formal way of looking at life, and he is captured by his forms... He cannot imagine a world without petite capitalism making big problems everywhere... I can imagine such a world, where government dares to govern the economy rather than being governed by it; but then, I am not the president and never will be for exactly that reason... I am outside the box so I don't have to try to think here... Mr. Obama will be sunk by the economy unless he can prove the republicans would be worse... Jeeze... That must be hard... Just say: The republicans have gotten us into many depressions, but have never got us out of one... IN fact, they never even help, but count on the thing fixing itself when enough people are ruined...
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 12:26 pm
@firefly,
firefly, What the GOP is advocating is extremism. They believe they have solutions to our deficit by cutting back on everything, but what they are actually doing is destroying this country by reducing funding for our schools and infrastructure. Both are needed for any growing economy. That's Econ 101.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 12:28 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Quote:
They're going to run on the same message; "cut taxes." It'll work too, because most Americans are struggling with added fuel and food costs.


But the Republicans are also attacking the deficit, and advocating tax cuts isn't exactly consistent with the need for the government to increase revenue. And, some of their proposed budget cuts, such as to the I.R.S., might actually interfere with collecting some of that revenue.
Quote:
The Wall Street Journal
March 31, 2011
When Spending Cuts Raise the Deficit.

Proposed Republican cuts to the Internal Revenue Service‘s budget would be “potentially devastating” to the country’s tax system that could increase the federal deficit and lead to fewer taxes being paid, the commissioner of the agency told a House panel Thursday.

Testifying at a hearing of the House Ways & Means Committee, IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman said the proposed $603 million cut to the agency’s budget could impact the deficit many times worse than that.

Shulman said the proposed cuts would lead immediately to the IRS collecting $4 billion less in taxes. He also warned that it could lower longer term compliance by Americans. “I’m hopeful we don’t have those cuts,” Shulman said.
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/03/31/when-spending-cuts-raise-the-deficit/tab/print/


I'm also not sure that it would bother most Americans if taxes were increased for the very wealthy--those earning $250,000+ a year--rather than have tax cuts which might wind up increasing the deficit.

I would not count on anyone raising taxes on the rich... We have the example of the old South and the fact that many fought for slavery and died for it though they owned no slaves and had no prospect of doing so... Most of us live feeble lives bordering on complete powerlessness... We are forced to watch tv to know how other people live, and so live through them... We will never be rich, and most of us will never be out of debt; but the fantasy that we will some day be rich is all we have of wealth, and we will not ruin our fantasy by burdening the rich with responsibility... That would not due... The more power without responsibility we see in them the more we admire them, and so it shall always be forever...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 12:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

firefly, What the GOP is advocating is extremism. They believe they have solutions to our deficit by cutting back on everything, but what they are actually doing is destroying this country by reducing funding for our schools and infrastructure. Both are needed for any growing economy. That's Econ 101.
They are responsible for the defecit... They want more of America sold off to them cheap with money we loan to them to do so, and they want our rights which we are powerless to defend... Since most of us do not understand that the commonwealth in private hands must still support the population they can put the working people up against the wall and demand their rights as the price of survival... I think the republicans and their rich masters are endangering their own survival.. I think they only need to ask too much too fast to find they are the ones dispossessed, and in need of right for survial... I want to see thing go right in the toilet if it will result in revolt... Break the government... It is the path to revolution they are cutting...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 12:39 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

I think that, if the jobs condition keeps improving each quarter Obama will be unbeatable.

The job of the right wing is to foind ANYTHING they can and try to make OBAMA the owner.
Guys like spurt dont have anything intelligent to say so they spit invective. Fortunately Obama is showing results, even the rich are reluctantly being quiet with their negatives cause , on hos watch, the stock market has turned about and is doing pretty good. 6% firts years, 15% last year and 5 % already the first quarter.
Unlikely... He will not have to convince anyone with any sense that the republicans and the capitalist economy are at fault, but what part of the voters is that??? When the economy needs 85K new jobs every month just to tread water, the paltry increase of this month will not ripple the water... It is too little too late, and the republicans will do all in their power to see the economy tanks again; but they are playing with thermonuclear weapons... They do not realize the extent to which all capitalist economies are shaking and quacking like a row of dominoes ready to fall.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 12:57 pm
@Fido,
There is a lot more than just 85,000 jobs to tread water; most of those jobs will never provide enough income to buy big ticket items like homes and cars to keep our economy at present levels. Consumer confidence is down, not up. Most Americans are now struggling to buy food and fuel, and one-third are underwater on their mortgages. Those asshole CEOs and officers of companies earning millions of dollars on stock options are greedy SOBs who are being supported by the conservatives to pay less taxes. This combination of our current economy will continue to deteriorate our already weak economy, and the growing national debt is going to be our greatest downfall. It's an event facing us today, and it's only a matter of when.

The dollar continues to lose against the Euro, and the message is clear. Even with so many Euro countries already bankrupt, the US is in worse condition when it comes to monetary policy.

Those Euro countries with loans are paying as much as 7% interest; guess what's in the future for the US dollar? When that happens, inflation is going to hurt everybody now struggling. The top 10% don't care.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 08:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

There is a lot more than just 85,000 jobs to tread water; most of those jobs will never provide enough income to buy big ticket items like homes and cars to keep our economy at present levels. Consumer confidence is down, not up. Most Americans are now struggling to buy food and fuel, and one-third are underwater on their mortgages. Those asshole CEOs and officers of companies earning millions of dollars on stock options are greedy SOBs who are being supported by the conservatives to pay less taxes. This combination of our current economy will continue to deteriorate our already weak economy, and the growing national debt is going to be our greatest downfall. It's an event facing us today, and it's only a matter of when.

The dollar continues to lose against the Euro, and the message is clear. Even with so many Euro countries already bankrupt, the US is in worse condition when it comes to monetary policy.

Those Euro countries with loans are paying as much as 7% interest; guess what's in the future for the US dollar? When that happens, inflation is going to hurt everybody now struggling. The top 10% don't care.
As I said: Bankruptcy is the precursor of revolution... The government starves itself of income when it allows wages to be driven down to the subsistence level... When they do not tax the only people with money they are forced to tax the middle class into poverty, but people are not taking it lying down... The tea party does not worry about bringing the country down, and why should they pay for services they do not use and do not need??? A nation is made out of a common mother, and we have no common mother... Without a common mother we could get by with a shared sense of justice, or a sense that justice in available and attainable for all... We know better... When the few who have anything less tell the rest of the country to go to hell we are done as a nation... We were really done as a nation when the constitution gave the rich the power to feed on the body politic... The enemy within, and a nest of traitors was planted among us, and at that moment American Freedom became a myth..
0 Replies
 
 

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