63
   

House of Reps. member Giffords shot in Arizona today

 
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 06:27 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

failures art wrote:
I heard that the shooter read Harry Potter.

I heard that he read the weather report.

i heard that he listened to Weather Report
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Weather_Report2_1980.jpg/800px-Weather_Report2_1980.jpg
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 06:31 am

Well, that explains it.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 07:38 am
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

I heard that the shooter read Harry Potter.

A
R
T


I heard that the shooter read An Inconvenient Truth.

Owl Gore




http://www.spaceg.com/multimedia/collection/politics/Al%20Gore%20serving%20in%20Vietnam.jpg
djjd62
 
  3  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 07:50 am
@H2O MAN,
if he'd read or watched an inconvenient truth, he'd have been rendered too catatonic to have shot anyone
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 07:57 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Quote:
Tea Party's Trent Humprhries statement on alleged threat by shooting victimPosted: Jan 16, 2011 9:49 PM

ShareShare Rating: 12345 1.0 (1 vote) TUCSON - The events of the ABC townhall broadcast Saturday, January 15th have been widely reported and are mostly accurate. An individual, James Eric Fuller, a victim in the recent and terrible shooting that occurred this past week, interrupted my comments with boos and catcalls before finally shouting, "You're dead!" while taking a picture of me. Believing I had misheard him, I finished my remarks and sat down as the program ended. I was immediately rushed out of the venue by Pima County Sheriff's Deputies without observing Mr. Fuller being detained or removed.

In the parking lot, the deputies asked if I was willing to press charges. Because I had noticed that Fuller was sitting in the front row, I assumed that he was closely involved in last week's tragedy and was reluctant to immediately seek legal recourse. The Deputies relayed to me that even if I chose not to immediately press charges, action would likely be taken anyway due to the high profile nature of the event and the recent events involving the shooter, Jared Loughner. My cooperation would assure that Mr. Fuller could be taken into custody and referred to mental health professionals immediately. This appeared to be the prudent course of action, so I agreed to let the Sheriff's department take Mr. Fuller into custody.

When speaking to detectives later in the day, they again asked about my willingness to press charges. I asked about the status of Mr. Fuller. They confirmed that he had been involuntarily committed and would be under observation for at least 72 hours. I followed up on this because I was concerned that Mr. Fuller would be released before I could file an order of protection (due to the Holiday.)

I am at a conundrum regarding whether or not to file charges. Based on the lessons that we have just learned about past law enforcement contacts with Jared Loughner and how he was never "flagged" because no legal complaints were ever filed, I do believe that care should be taken before dismissing all charges against Mr. Fuller. Additionally, a large portion of the discussion that took place at the town hall involved mental health and making sure that as a community and law enforcement we have adequate care for those with such issues.

It has just come to my attention that a spokesperson for the Sheriff's Department made the following statement on Saturday evening after the town hall, "If Humphries decides not to press charges, the charges will be dropped". At no point was this information ever related to me before the statement was given to the press. I was actually led to believe the opposite. It was my understanding that because of the very public nature of the offense that charges would be filed regardless of my participation. Indeed, it is up to Pima County Prosecutor Barbara Lawall, and not the Sheriff's Department, to decide that charges will be "dropped". Like so much other misinformation reported this past week, the statement from the Sheriff's office would appear to be an error of the press or another grave misunderstanding on the Sheriff''s part.

I have nothing but sadness for the injuries and trauma that Mr Fuller has experienced due to the horrific event that killed several of our community members and left dozens injured. I have been informed through legal counsel that Mr. Fuller cannot be compelled to receive treatment without an ongoing legal complaint or conviction. If he truly is in need of mental health help, I want that to be based on the opinion of experts and our law enforcement professionals and not on whether I am willing to press charges.

It would be very unfortunate if it is true that the decision of how best to proceed with Mr. Fuller is solely mine. I am not adequately prepared to determine whether or not Mr Fuller is a danger to himself or the community. I do not have access to the mental health reports, prior records, interviews, or likely any evidence gathered on Mr. Fuller to this point. Nor am I qualified to determine if he is indeed a danger to the community or himself. Ultimately this is not a decision I feel comfortable making based on my limited experience with this gentleman or the facts I have.

My desire is that Mr. Fuller receive whatever help he needs in order to return as a reasoned member of society that poses no danger to me or my family or anyone else. If my dropping the criminal charges can accomplish that, I am willing and eager to do so. If, however, pressing charges guarantees that he will have the care and observation required to overcome his desire to do me or anyone else harm because of political beliefs, I will proceed with them, such as I can. It is my hope that the Sheriff's Department will work with me to do what is best for Mr. Fuller and act in a manner that will help keep my family and the rest of Pima County's citizens safe.


Mr Humphries statement seems to reflect considerable confusion on his part about the role he might play in determining the legal or psychiatric course of action regarding Mr. Fuller.

Mr. Fuller was arrested for both disorderly conduct and threatening--both misdemeanor criminal charges. The decision whether to proceed with these criminal charges will likely not rest with Mr. Humphries since Mr Fuller's behavior occurred in public, was witnessed by others, and should be appropriately criminally investigated as to the seriousness of the threat involved--particularly since this incident took place in the wake of a tragic shooting and a continuing climate of political divisiveness.

Mr. Humphries plays no role at all in determining whether Mr. Fuller suffers from possible psychiatric problems, and whether Mr. Fuller needs or receives psychiatric treatment. It is somewhat puzzling that Mr. Humphries seems to see himself as somewhat involved in these decisions--or why he erroneously claims that Mr. Fuller cannot be compelled to receive continued psychiatric treatment unless criminal charges, or a criminal conviction, are involved. If this is the information that Mr. Humphries has gotten from his "legal counsel" he should fire his attorney--it is blatantly inaccurate.

Whether Mr. Fuller suffers from psychiatric problems which make him a possible immediate danger to others, will be determined by the mental health professionals now observing him. Whether Mr. Fuller is in need of continued treatment for those problems is also determined by those individuals. And, whether Mr. Fuller would then receive such treatment, is a decision which could be made voluntarily by Mr. Fuller, or it could be imposed on him by a court acting under the advice of mental health professionals. None of this is related to Mr. Humphries, or Mr. Humphries input or wishes--it does not involve him. And, for that same reason, these decisions are not based on the criminal charges for which Mr. Fuller was arrested--they are medical decisions based on Mr. Fuller's need for civil psychiatric treatment irrespective of any criminal charges he might have pending against him.

So, I am puzzled about why Mr. Humphries issued this confusing statement. He appears to be trying to paint himself as the "good guy", so that if he wants criminal charges pressed against Mr. Fuller, it will be seen as a way of getting Mr. Fuller psychiatric help. That is a load of rot, for the reasons I have explained above.

I think that Mr. Humphries, a co-founder of the Tucson Tea Party, is trying to publicize and emphasize Mr Fuller's possible psychiatric problems possibly for reasons of his own. Mr Fuller has in the past referred to the "Tea Party crime syndicate". In addition, Mr. Fuller was on the radio in the past week attacking people supportive of the Tea Party with statements like:
Quote:
"It looks like Palin, Beck, Sharron Angle and the rest got their first target".
"Their wish for Second Amendment activism has been fulfilled – senseless hatred leading to murder, lunatic fringe anarchism, subscribed to by John Boehner, mainstream rebels with vengeance for all, even 9-year-old girls".

So, clearly, Mr. Humphries would prefer that the public see such statements as the ravings of a madman, instead of legitimate anger over the type of rhetoric which has been employed by the Tea Party and its supporters, and the failure on their part to consider possible consequences of such tactics. But, similar sorts of feelings were voiced by many people--including Rep. Giffords--long before the recent shooting incident, precisely because they feared there might be violent consequences as a result of such rhetoric and tactics. So, Mr. Humphries, who has a continued vested interest in protecting the Tea Party from attack, certainly has even more reason now, in the wake of a shooting, to want the public to view those who attack their tactics as being mentally unhinged.

In that regard, I consider Mr. Humphries statement as entirely self serving and duplicitous.









plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 08:16 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Your posts indicate that u do not understand
the words that u use, Plain.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
mysteryman
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 08:19 am
@H2O MAN,
If you look closely, there is no magazine in that weapon.
He is handling an UNLOADED weapon.

It makes me wonder if he ever loaded it the whole time he was in Vietnam.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 09:22 am
Quote:
Move to San Diego backed for suspect's trial
By Jerry Markon
Monday, January 17, 2011

Federal authorities are planning to move the trial of the alleged gunman in the Jan. 8 mass shooting in Tucson to San Diego because of extensive pretrial publicity in Arizona, federal law enforcement sources said Sunday night.

Jared Lee Loughner, 22, is charged in federal court in Arizona, but court officials plan to move the case out of the state within several weeks, the sources said. They cited publicity and the sensitivity of the case in Arizona, where one of those fatally shot was John M. Roll, the state's chief federal judge.

The new chief judge, Roslyn O. Silver, will make the final decision about any venue change, but one law enforcement official said, "It's going to happen. It's just a matter of time.''

Loughner is charged in the massacre that killed Roll and five others and wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz) and 13 others. Legal experts have said that his lawyers are likely to seek a change of venue to ensure he receives a fair trial.

Federal officials said San Diego would get the case in part because it is one of the closest judicial districts to Arizona. A San Diego-based federal judge, Larry A. Burns, was appointed last week to hear the case because Arizona judges recused themselves. Judy Clarke, Loughner's attorney, is also based there.

Although changes of venue are not regularly granted, they have occurred in high-profile cases. In 1996, for example, a federal judge moved the Oklahoma City bombing case to Denver, saying defendants Timothy J. McVeigh and Terry L. Nichols had been "demonized" in the media.

Loughner, who is charged with murder and attempted murder, is being held at the Federal Correctional Institution, a medium-security prison outside Phoenix.

For his own safety, officials said, he is being kept away from other prisoners and spends 23 hours a day alone in his cell. He gets about an hour a day to shower and exercise.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/17/AR2011011700066.html

OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 10:28 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

Quote:
Your posts indicate that u do not understand
the words that u use, Plain.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Well, at least we agree on SOMETHING!
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 10:31 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
If you look closely, there is no magazine in that weapon.
He is handling an UNLOADED weapon.

It makes me wonder if he ever loaded it the whole time he was in Vietnam.
Maybe only when he was going to look down the gun barrel.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 10:33 am
@OmSigDAVID,
My message meant that your accusation was laughable. If you agree with that, then you have taken your first step in the direction of mental health.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 12:13 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Federal authorities are planning to move the trial of the alleged gunman in the Jan. 8 mass shooting in Tucson to San Diego because of extensive pretrial publicity in Arizona, federal law enforcement sources said Sunday night.

I think the fact that Loughner is also accused of killing the chief judge of the Arizona district court may also have something to do with it.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 12:15 pm
@joefromchicago,
U think so ?
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 12:17 pm
@joefromchicago,
a few days after the shooting i heard that the trial would be moved to California, because of the federal judge being a victim, it makes sense really, the whole idea of an impartial jury these days is kind of ridiculous, but i can imagine that few judges in Arizona want to be involved in this trial
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 12:18 pm
@joefromchicago,
Yes, the article mentions that. It is certainly a factor.
Quote:
Jared Lee Loughner, 22, is charged in federal court in Arizona, but court officials plan to move the case out of the state within several weeks, the sources said. They cited publicity and the sensitivity of the case in Arizona, where one of those fatally shot was John M. Roll, the state's chief federal judge.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/17/AR2011011700066.html


0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 12:23 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:


Mr Humphries statement seems to reflect considerable confusion on his part about the role he might play in determining the legal or psychiatric course of action regarding Mr. Fuller.

Mr. Fuller was arrested for both disorderly conduct and threatening--both misdemeanor criminal charges. The decision whether to proceed with these criminal charges will likely not rest with Mr. Humphries since Mr Fuller's behavior occurred in public, was witnessed by others, and should be appropriately criminally investigated as to the seriousness of the threat involved--particularly since this incident took place in the wake of a tragic shooting and a continuing climate of political divisiveness.

Mr. Humphries plays no role at all in determining whether Mr. Fuller suffers from possible psychiatric problems, and whether Mr. Fuller needs or receives psychiatric treatment. It is somewhat puzzling that Mr. Humphries seems to see himself as somewhat involved in these decisions--or why he erroneously claims that Mr. Fuller cannot be compelled to receive continued psychiatric treatment unless criminal charges, or a criminal conviction, are involved. If this is the information that Mr. Humphries has gotten from his "legal counsel" he should fire his attorney--it is blatantly inaccurate.

Whether Mr. Fuller suffers from psychiatric problems which make him a possible immediate danger to others, will be determined by the mental health professionals now observing him. Whether Mr. Fuller is in need of continued treatment for those problems is also determined by those individuals. And, whether Mr. Fuller would then receive such treatment, is a decision which could be made voluntarily by Mr. Fuller, or it could be imposed on him by a court acting under the advice of mental health professionals. None of this is related to Mr. Humphries, or Mr. Humphries input or wishes--it does not involve him. And, for that same reason, these decisions are not based on the criminal charges for which Mr. Fuller was arrested--they are medical decisions based on Mr. Fuller's need for civil psychiatric treatment irrespective of any criminal charges he might have pending against him.

So, I am puzzled about why Mr. Humphries issued this confusing statement. He appears to be trying to paint himself as the "good guy", so that if he wants criminal charges pressed against Mr. Fuller, it will be seen as a way of getting Mr. Fuller psychiatric help. That is a load of rot, for the reasons I have explained above.

I think that Mr. Humphries, a co-founder of the Tucson Tea Party, is trying to publicize and emphasize Mr Fuller's possible psychiatric problems possibly for reasons of his own. Mr Fuller has in the past referred to the "Tea Party crime syndicate". In addition, Mr. Fuller was on the radio in the past week attacking people supportive of the Tea Party with statements like:
Quote:
"It looks like Palin, Beck, Sharron Angle and the rest got their first target".
"Their wish for Second Amendment activism has been fulfilled – senseless hatred leading to murder, lunatic fringe anarchism, subscribed to by John Boehner, mainstream rebels with vengeance for all, even 9-year-old girls".

So, clearly, Mr. Humphries would prefer that the public see such statements as the ravings of a madman, instead of legitimate anger over the type of rhetoric which has been employed by the Tea Party and its supporters, and the failure on their part to consider possible consequences of such tactics. But, similar sorts of feelings were voiced by many people--including Rep. Giffords--long before the recent shooting incident, precisely because they feared there might be violent consequences as a result of such rhetoric and tactics. So, Mr. Humphries, who has a continued vested interest in protecting the Tea Party from attack, certainly has even more reason now, in the wake of a shooting, to want the public to view those who attack their tactics as being mentally unhinged.

In that regard, I consider Mr. Humphries statement as entirely self serving and duplicitous.


How fortunate that we have an Arizona attorney on this thread who can inform us on the specific workings of the Arizona criminal justice system, AND pass judgment on the quality of Mr. Humphries' lawyer.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 12:24 pm

I think that the 8th Amendment woud have been better crafted
if it required death sentences to be executed
the same way that murderers executed their murders.

Of course, this guy will almost certainly
get the protection of the M'Naughten Rule.

I never believed in nor supported that notion.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 12:29 pm

If Gabby is still able to function in Congress,
it will be interesting to see her vote against gun control (if she remains pro-freedom).

Let the record indicate that if I ever get shot,
I will still NOT support the stupidity of gun control.





David
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 12:32 pm
@djjd62,
Quote:
the whole idea of an impartial jury these days is kind of ridiculous


I think you can still get impartial juries--people who will carefully listen to the evidence presented, and base their decisions only on that evidence.

In this case, there is no question of guilt. Everyone knows that Loughner was the shooter, and the only shooter. I think they now have videotape of the shooting.

So, this case will revolve around other issues--possibly insanity or diminished capacity--and I think there should be little problem finding an impartial jury.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 12:36 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

If you look closely, there is no magazine in that weapon.
He is handling an UNLOADED weapon.

It makes me wonder if he ever loaded it the whole time he was in Vietnam.


For his own safety and the safety of others, the CO thought is was best to issue him a rifle without mags & ammo.
0 Replies
 
 

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