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House of Reps. member Giffords shot in Arizona today

 
 
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 01:17 pm
@firefly,
Humpheries' statement was calm, judicious and kind. Where in his statement did he exemplify confusion? Fuller publicly threatened his life: simply narrating events and trying to behave as a responsible person re formal charges = duplicity and self-serving?? Pray tell, how do you judge the guy who threatened to kill him?

This just seems like a partisan screed.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 01:27 pm
@firefly,
i guess what i really meant was, you can't move a crime like this (or any other large profile crime) to an area where no one has heard about it (the old, we'll never get a fair trial in this town), CNN and the internet has pretty much put an end to that, it still happens but i think it's more of a placebo effect, make everyone think it's helping the course of justice
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 01:38 pm
PrezBO's pep-rally like speech did not help his approval rating... it dropped another point.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 03:12 pm
@joefromchicago,
Here's another view on the so-called label of mentally disturbed home grown terrorists:

Extremist Killing Is as American as Apple Pie
Murders Grow on the Far Right Four Decades After Martin Luther King
By Stephan Salisbury

The landscape of America is littered with bodies.
They’ve been gunned down in Tucson, shot to death at the Pentagon, and blown away at the Holocaust Museum, as well as in Wichita, Knoxville, Pittsburgh, Brockton, and Okaloosa County, Florida.

Total body count for these incidents: 19 dead, 26 wounded.

Not much, you might say, when taken in the context of about 30,000 gun-related deaths annually nationwide. As it happens, though, these murders over the past couple of years have some common threads. All involved white gunmen with ties to racist or right-wing groups or who harbored deep suspicions of “the government.” Many involved the killing of police officers.
In Pittsburgh, three police officers were shot and killed, while two were wounded in an April 2009 gun battle with Richard Poplawski, a white supremacist fearful that President Obama planned to curtail his gun rights. In Okaloosa County, Florida, two officers were slain in April 2009 in an altercation with Joshua Cartwright, whose abused wife told the police that her husband “believed that the U.S. Government was conspiring against him” and that he was “severely disturbed that Barack Obama had been elected President.”

At the Pentagon, an anti-government conspiracy theorist, John Patrick Bedell, wounded two police officers in March of last year before being shot to death. At the Holocaust Museum in 2009, James W. Von Brunn, a white supremacist, gunned down a security guard before being wounded and subdued by two other security guards.

Government officials, of course, have also been targets of the gunmen, as demonstrated so vividly by the recent shootings in Tucson, where Arizona Democratic Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and 12 others were wounded, and one of Giffords’s staff members and a federal judge were among the six dead.

Churches Are No Sanctuary from Christian Extremists
Two of these shootings took place within the sanctuary of churches. In Wichita in 2009, Dr. George Tiller was gunned down by anti-abortion extremist Scott Roeder. Tiller was serving as an usher during a Sunday morning service at Reformation Lutheran Church when he was shot. The attack in Knoxville, which left two dead and six injured in July 2008, occurred at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church while 25 children were performing Annie Jr. Killer Jim David Adkisson said he hated Democrats and deemed the church part of the “liberal movement.” Adkisson opened fire with a shotgun on an audience of about 200. In Brockton, Massachusetts, in January 2009, neo-Nazi Keith Luke sought to storm a synagogue, but never made it, authorities claim. According to a prosecutor, Luke wanted to “kill as many Jews, blacks, and Hispanics as humanly possible.” In his rampage, he reportedly murdered two Hispanics and raped and wounded a third before, near the synagogue, he was wrestled to the ground by ordinary citizens.
Since the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing -- initially attributed by numerous media experts to Arab terrorists but actually the work of right-wing militia-movement supporter Timothy McVeigh -- more than 25 law-enforcement officers have been killed by white supremacists, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Extremist Wreckage Pockmarks the American Landscape
Beyond the shootings -- and those enumerated above are only a sample of such incidents since 2008 -- there is a landscape of rubble and carnage. In February 2010, Joseph Stack, infuriated by the IRS and U.S. tax policy, crashed his small plane into an Austin office building housing 200 IRS workers, killing himself and two others and injuring 13. Violence, he wrote in a “manifesto,” is “the only answer” to oppressive government policies.
Sometimes the wreckage left behind from such incidents is easily overlooked, a roadside crash on a springtime day. In Nashville last March, a motorist was so enraged by an Obama bumper sticker that he rammed his SUV into the offending car, pushing it off the road and onto the sidewalk, leaving a man and his 10-year-old daughter terrified inside.

Sometimes the incidents reveal deep emotional wounds. Just before Christmas in 2008, in Belfast, Maine, an abused wife shot and killed her husband, James Cummings, a wealthy California native and Nazi devotee. Loathing Barack Obama, he was planning to join the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement at the time he was shot. Police and federal agents subsequently found radioactive materials and instructions for the making of a “dirty bomb” in his house, according to an FBI document released by WikiLeaks.

An FBI official said the materials could all be purchased legally in the United States. The police offered assurances that the public was not at risk. Amber Cummings, the abused wife who believed her husband had sexual designs on their nine-year-old daughter, was sentenced to eight years in prison for the shooting, but the judge suspended the sentence.

Sometimes the carnage is vast and events are still playing out. A bomb lab discovered in an Escondido, California, house in November proved so immense that authorities feared removing the explosives. Instead, they closed nearby Interstate 15 and set the property ablaze, sending a towering black cone of smoke skyward and filling the air with the hiss of burning chemicals and the crack-crack of exploding ammunition.

Police are still investigating the supposed architect of this explosive realm, an unemployed Serbian immigrant. As with the apparent plans to build a dirty bomb in Maine, the authorities have not yet declared these efforts in California to be associated with terrorism or possible construction of weapons of mass destruction. WikiLeaks, on the other hand, which released the FBI field report on the Maine incident, has since been termed a terrorist organization by a number of federal lawmakers and officials for bringing classified documents to public attention.

White Men Are Never Labeled Terrorists
That leads to a common thread among these murderous incidents. None has been labeled the work of terrorists by authorities or the media. All involved white men, most of whom -- like Jared Loughner in Tucson -- have been deemed troubled or disturbed by authorities and various media outlets. Even Jim David Adkisson, the unemployed truck driver who attacked the Knoxville church because he believed it was “a cult” and a haven for Democrats and secular liberals, has not been characterized as a political terrorist. Adkisson was a fan of the writings and shows of right-wing media personalities Bill O'Reilly, Michael Savage, and Sean Hannity, according to authorities who searched his residence after the 2008 shootings. However, his primary motivation, according to those same authorities, was the imminent loss of food stamps and inability to find a job.

Joseph Stack, who flew his plane into the Austin IRS building in an eerie echo of the 9/11 attacks, is also not a terrorist -- just a plain old suicide. The Maine dirty-bomb maker, who amassed quantities of hydrogen peroxide, uranium, thorium, lithium metal, thermite, aluminum powder, beryllium, boron, black iron oxide, and magnesium ribbon, a terrorist? No, just a “disturbed individual.”

Arizona, of course, has seen a lot of extremist political activity in recent years. In fact, even as Jared Loughner was gunning down 20 people inside the Safeway on North Oracle Road on January 8th, the murder trial of Shawna Forde, head of the anti-immigrant Minutemen American Defense group, was getting underway in nearby Pima County Superior Court. Forde and two associates have been charged with the shooting death of a man, the wounding of his wife, and the killing of the couple’s nine-year-old daughter during a June 2009 robbery aimed at funding her extremist political activities.
These are America’s killing fields, coast to coast, yet the commentary and debate in the wake of the Gabrielle Giffords shooting revolves around political rhetoric in Washington. Both sides need to tone it down, we’re told. There have been endless discussions on television and radio, newspaper commentary and Internet postings all focused on the issue of overheated political talk -- as if Jared Loughner somehow leaped full-grown from the forehead of Glenn Beck.

Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck did not send Jared Loughner out to kill, even if their extreme lock-and-load rhetoric -- Beck, brandishing a baseball bat, has warned his viewers to watch out during the next “killing spree” -- has helped legitimate such talk. What they have certainly done is help create an inspirational environment where it is perfectly normal for Tea Party extremists to attend political rallies while packing pistols. Indeed, packing pistols is the point, isn’t it?

That said, conservative columnist David Brooks, in an astonishingly superficial argument, wrote in the New York Times that those who drag politics into public debate over the killing of political figures and government officials are leveling “vicious charges” and lack empathy for the mentally ill. Brooks gravely wagged his finger at those -- he singled out MSNBC commentator Keith Olberman, former Senator Gary Hart, and Daily Kos founder Markos Moulitsas -- who have argued that violent rhetoric from the Tea Party and Sarah Palin set the table for the Tucson shootings. (Of course Congresswoman Giffords herself chastised Palin for putting her district in the now-infamous gun-sight crosshairs. Does Brooks include her, too, in excoriating “vicious charges made by people who claimed to be criticizing viciousness”?)

How sugary is Brooks’ argument? Compare it to what he wrote following the shooting rampage that took place at Fort Hood in November 2009. In that murderous incident, Major Nidal Malik Hasan was ultimately charged with killing 13 and wounding over 30. Hasan, a Muslim psychiatrist, was clearly disturbed by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (he was about to be deployed to the latter) and his deteriorating mental state had been a concern to officials at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences.

That was before Hasan snapped. Despite documented psychiatric worries, the issue of terrorism quickly dominated public discussion of Hasan’s act.
At the time, Brooks derided talk of Hasan’s mental state and characterized those who brought it up as casting “a shroud of political correctness” over the Hasan “narrative.”

“The conversation in the first few days after the massacre was well intentioned, but it suggested a willful flight from reality,” Brooks intoned. “It ignored the fact that the war narrative of the struggle against Islam is the central feature of American foreign policy. It ignored the fact that this narrative can be embraced by a self-radicalizing individual in the U.S. as much as by groups in Tehran, Gaza or Kandahar.”

So much for “vicious charges” and empathy. They are apparently reserved for young white males in Tucson; Muslims need not apply.

Meanwhile, the bodies are piling up in Arizona and Tennessee, Kansas and Pennsylvania. The Homeland Security Department issued a lonely cautionary report in 2009 on the rising tide of right-wing extremism; it was loudly hooted down by right-wing radio celebrities like Rush Limbaugh and Internet pundits like Michelle Malkin. The killings and the attacks went on.
Now, we have arrived at another Martin Luther King Day, the birthday of a man gunned down by a right-wing extremist more than 40 years ago and, while we talk endlessly about rhetoric, we have done a remarkable job of ignoring the growing pile of bodies. The murderous right wing is still with us. The racists and the skinheads and the neo-Nazis are still here. Sales of Glock semi-automatic guns are skyrocketing in the wake of Tucson. The growing piles of bodies is real evidence of growing extremist activity. What could be plainer or starker?

Congressman Peter King, the New York Republican who now heads the House Homeland Security Committee, is planning to hold hearings on Muslim radicalization in America when the new Congress convenes. Muslims, he said in the wake of the Tucson killings, are recruited by "foreign" terrorists, while Loughner is just a "deranged" American, the latest in a long line of deranged Americans.

What place is this? Where are we now?

Stephan Salisbury is cultural writer for the Philadelphia Inquirer and a TomDispatch regular. His most recent book is Mohamed’s Ghosts: An American Story of Love and Fear in the Homeland.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 04:15 pm
Sarah Palin, Blame, and Responsibility

by Sheila Musaji


Sarah Palin posted a statement on facebook (full statement here http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=487510653434 ), and released a video of the statement. She is concerned that some are attempting to apportion blame for the events, and defending herself and her past statements. I believe that she is wrong to conflate a genuine concern about the possibility that inflammatory rhetoric might have some negative consequences and blaming that rhetoric for the actions of a criminal.

It seems that she holds remarkably opposing viewpoints at the same time, and posts those opposing viewpoints on facebook.

In this statement she said: “After this shocking tragedy, I listened at first puzzled, then with concern, and now with sadness, to the irresponsible statements from people attempting to apportion blame for this terrible event. President Reagan said, “We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.” Acts of monstrous criminality stand on their own. They begin and end with the criminals who commit them, not collectively with all the citizens of a state, not with those who listen to talk radio, not with maps of swing districts used by both sides of the aisle, not with law-abiding citizens who respectfully exercise their First Amendment rights at campaign rallies … journalists and pundits should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn. That is reprehensible.”

It is interesting that Gabrielle Giffords herself was concerned about consequences, and said back in March “Sarah Palin has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district and when people do that, they’ve gotta realize there are consequences to that action.”

A few months ago when she was a vocal opponent of the proposed Cordoba House in NYC she issued another statement (read her full statement here http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=411073718434 ). In that statement then, she said: “This is not an issue of religious tolerance but of common moral sense. To build a mosque at Ground Zero is a stab in the heart of the families of the innocent victims of those horrific attacks. ... I agree with the sister of one of the 9/11 victims (and a New York resident) who said: “This is a place which is 600 feet from where almost 3,000 people were torn to pieces by Islamic extremists. I think that it is incredibly insensitive and audacious really for them to build a mosque, not only on that site, but to do it specifically so that they could be in proximity to where that atrocity happened.”


In this case Palin seems to be saying that any mosque near ground zero would be offensive, and this would mean that all Muslims must somehow be responsible for the actions of al Qaeda criminals. However, if the perpetrator of a criminal terrorist act is not a Muslim, then there are no outside influences that might have motivated or encouraged that action. It is absolutely impossible to understand this logic.

As Dean Obeidallah notes “Sarah—If you are reading this, or having someone else read it to you—I have a question, and I’m not trying to “Katie Couric” you, but if this is your philosophy, how could you have opposed the proposed Muslim Community Center in lower Manhattan? The builders of the Mosque had nothing to do with the 9/11 terrorists. It was the terrorists who committed an act of “monstrous criminality,” not the law abiding Muslim-American citizens who just wanted to “exercise their first amendment rights,” the exact type of rights you specifically defended in your new video ... Sarah—you and your friends on the right can’t have it both ways. It’s either “individual responsibility” meaning that we only punish those who commit the crimes or collective guilt so you can punish Americans for the wrongs to which they have no connection. Which is it going to be? Or is there an exception to your views based on the race or religion of the American?”

The most recent statement also holds internal contradictions, not just contradictions with a previous statement. Read: 1) “Acts of monstrous criminality stand on their own. They begin and end with the criminals who commit them.” And, 2) “But, especially within hours of a tragedy unfolding, journalists and pundits should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn. That is reprehensible.”

Statements 1 and 2 directly contradict each other. Either it is possible to incite violence or it isn’t. If it is possible, then considering how we might tone down the rhetoric would be reasonable. It is telling that Sarah Palin removed the map with the rifle crosshairs over particular districts from her site. If such visual and verbal images have no effect, then why remove them?

read on at

http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/sarah_palin_is_a_little_confused/0018343

okie
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 05:36 pm
@JTT,
I agree with Sarah Palin.

I am completely amazed at the convoluted reasoning presented in your post. You somehow think that Palin can't have it both ways, and you link her opposition to the mosque with the case in Arizona, an absolutely weird comparison.

It is not a matter of Palin having it both ways. You somehow imply that Palin is out there advocating violence, as parts of the Islamic religion apparently does, or at least it does not condemn it. Palin openly and completely condemns violence and there is absolutely no link whatsoever between Palin and the crime in Arizona. In contrast, there are lots of links between the Islamic faith and terrorism.

Sorry, but all the contortions you are going through to somehow implicate Palin is not only silly, but insulting, both to our sense of decency but to peoples ability to reason.
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 05:44 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

If you look closely, there is no magazine in that weapon.
He is handling an UNLOADED weapon.

It makes me wonder if he ever loaded it the whole time he was in Vietnam.


At least he was there instead of protecting Americas alabama duck blinds on the rare occasion he felt like showing up for work.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 05:48 pm
@blueveinedthrobber,
I didn't realize you lived in Alabama during the Vietnam war...
good to know - you are now known as The Duckhunter from this day on.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 06:06 pm
@mysteryman,
He thinks enough time has passed so Mr "Honesty" shows his face again and wonders why his carefully crafted image is as transparent air.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 06:13 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Fuller publicly threatened his life:


You don't know that for sure, Lash. That's what trials are for, to prevent folks who live hudreds of miles away from an event from making rash judgments about any case.

Even if you had been there you still might not know for sure. Didn't Humpheries himself say that he didn't know that had been the case?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 06:23 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
You don't know that for sure, Lash. That's what trials are for, to prevent folks who live hudreds of miles away from an event from making rash judgments about any case.

Lets also keep in mind that we routinely see this same type of behaviour and language at the Little League Game......If we let Firefly have her way the mental health profession would be an explosive growth industry. Of course we don't want to talk about how putting people away, especially in a medical setting, creates enormous bills that we are not prepared to pay.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 06:36 pm
Left wing whack-job threatens to kill.

Fuller’s arrest follows his public rebuking of Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck for inciting gunman
Jared Loughner and claiming that Fox News promotes war the day before his arrest.


JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 07:12 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Of course we don't want to talk about how putting people away, especially in a medical setting, creates enormous bills that we are not prepared to pay.


So so true, Hawk. That money rightfully should go to make the US arms industry twenty, or a hundred times bigger than the next biggest five countries instead of a measly five times bigger.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 07:14 pm
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
and claiming that Fox News promotes war ... .


He certainly got that right.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 07:16 pm
@JTT,
Two of a kind whack-jobs you and he, two of a kind.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 07:20 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
......If we let Firefly have her way the mental health profession would be an explosive growth industry


Which specific statements of mine are you referring to?

Or are you back to completely distorting, misinterpreting, and fabricating again?


hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 07:29 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Which specific statements of mine are you referring to?

You being in favor of the state having the laws in place to involuntarily commit people for what amounts to verbal assault. You clearly said that laws like Arizona's where a person can be confined and forced into treatment when someone decides that they could benefit from it are a good idea. I say no way..danger to themselves or others is the agreed standard and we should not give the state additional power to detain citizens on mental health grounds. The profession is already discredited for supporting the detainment of sex offenders after their justice system terms are over on mental health grounds, the last thing this profession should do is collude with the state in taking another fist full of individual rights and autonomy away at gun point (the cops).
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 08:01 pm
@hawkeye10,
I can see a possible argument
that the state is doing it in support of the threatenee 's right of self-defense,
since he informed him of an impending assassination
and he committed an overt act in furtherance thereof
(took his picture, for targeting purposes).





David
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 08:04 pm
@okie,
The perfect pair! sarah is stupid and a liar. A match made in heaven.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2011 08:06 pm
@JTT,
What was it Eisenhower said? We could either build one . . . was it a bomber . . . or modern brick schools in 30 cities.
0 Replies
 
 

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