House of Reps. member Giffords shot in Arizona today

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

The problem I have with your reaction to all of this is that your expressed opinion is that you know more about other people than they know about themselves. That is more than a simple difference of opinion - that is arrogance.

I don't believe the claims people are making about themselves either, but ascribing this to arrogance is to do what you decry, thinking you know more about those who don't believe it than they do.

By your standard, all Lash has to say is that she is not being arrogant and then you are (by your standards). And how then is your psychoanalysis of David any different? He certainly doesn't think he has mental health issues or is a victim but you do, does that make you arrogant? I think you set a very low bar for arrogance: merely disagreeing with people's takes on themselves.

Just what is so wrong about not accepting the self-image of others? The notion that they know themselves best ignores that they have the greatest bias and may not see themselves as others see them.

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Quote:

A week after being shot in head, Giffords breathing on her own
Tucson, Arizona (CNN) -- One week after being shot through the head, U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is off the ventilator and breathing on her own through a tracheotomy tube, the University Medical Center of Tucson, Arizona, said Saturday.

Giffords, who authorities say was the target of a mass shooting by Jared Lee Loughner that left six dead and another 13 wounded, remains in critical condition. Still, in a statement, the southern Arizona hospital said that her recovery "continues as planned."

Another person wounded in the incident, 58-year-old James Tucker, was released from the hospital Saturday, according to the medical center. Two other victims are in good condition at the hospital, while others wounded had been treated and released earlier this week.

The Giffords' development is the latest milestone for a woman who was critically wounded after a bullet went into her skull, through her brain and then back out her skull.

(cnn)

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@Region Philbis,

I'm amazed that she has survived, and not only that but at what rate her recovery is moving along. Getting shot in the brain is no small thing. You've got to have a strong will to live. Wow.

A
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@failures art,

I think a lot of it was luck, too -- the precise trajectory, the kind of bullet used, etc. (I'm always nervous about ascribing too much credit to people for healing or surviving because what does that say about the ones who don't?)

It does sound like she's a tough lady though. I continue to wish her the best.

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@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel:

Quote:

I don't believe the claims people are making about themselves either, but ascribing this to arrogance is to do what you decry, thinking you know more about those who don't believe it than they do.

No. It isn’t doing the same thing as they are at all. The act of calling people liars and fools (Finn did that, not Lash – Lash just seemed to heartily agree) for not agreeing with the characterization that all people say things like “I hope he dies” is arrogant. The act of trying to depict people as delusional or not self aware because they say that they would not react in the same way as you; that’s arrogant.

RG:

Quote:

By your standard, all Lash has to say is that she is not being arrogant and then you are (by your standards). And how then is your psychoanalysis of David any different? He certainly doesn't think he has mental health issues or is a victim but you do, does that make you arrogant? I think you set a very low bar for arrogance: merely disagreeing with people's takes on themselves.

That’s some pretty convoluted reasoning. On the one hand, some people react negatively to those (Finn and Lash) making a vast generalization and insulting anyone who says they don’t fit that generalization. On the other hand, you have a couple of people (Finn and Lash) who believe their remarks about what “everyone” would certainly say should be accepted as a given, and who seem incredulous that anyone disagrees.

I think you set a low bar for coherence and equivalence.

RG:

Quote:

Just what is so wrong about not accepting the self-image of others? The notion that they know themselves best ignores that they have the greatest bias and may not see themselves as others see them.

Can’t tell whether you’re being willfully disingenuous or if you really can’t tell the difference between what ehBeth and I are doing, and what Finn and Lash did. Maybe you could make the argument that others might know someone better than they know themselves if we were talking about people who actually knew each other – maybe.

But we are people who know each other by what we reveal through this forum. With that limited body of knowledge, it is at least presumptuous and probably arrogant to be proclaiming like its the gospel what “everyone” would or wouldn’t say.

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

I think a lot of it was luck, too -- the precise trajectory, the kind of bullet used, etc. (I'm always nervous about ascribing too much credit to people for healing or surviving because what does that say about the ones who don't?)

It does sound like she's a tough lady though. I continue to wish her the best.

I know what you mean about giving credit for healing. I thought it was interesting that the doctors keep using the words "miracle" and "miraculous" when talking about her recovery.

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

Arrogance isn't an emotion in their heads that we have to interpret; it's a behavior which we can observe. Whereas they're making global pronouncements about everyone on earth. Do you really not see a difference?

ar·ro·gant/ˈarəgənt/
Adjective: Having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

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I don't know if these facts have been stressed well enough. The record shows that Gifford was a conservative Democrat, belonging to a group of Democrats often referred to as "Blue Dogs." In fact, she was apprarently a Republican before switching parties in 2000. She also recognized the most left or liberal in her own party were very unhappy with her. I am going to quote key parts of the following link:
http://postbulletin.com/news/stories/display.php?id=1440461

".............................Gabrielle Giffords, one of her state's most high-profile Democrats, seems at first glance to be an unlikely choice of voters in conservative-leaning southern Arizona.
But she has managed to remain popular, winning election three times in the Tucson-area congressional district by holding centrist positions, reaching out to constituents and bucking her party's position on many issues as a key member of the "Blue Dog Coalition" Democrats.
.....
Giffords, 40, a one-time Republican, became a Democrat in 2000 and won election to the Arizona House, where she served one term.
....
Known as "Gabby," she won an easy victory by taking conservative positions for a Democrat in the district that had elected the moderate Kolbe 11 times
.....
Giffords worked hard to win moderate Republicans and independents in her district, all the while knowing that her votes against some of her leadership's priorities irked leftist Democrats.....
"A lot of the strong Democratic activists, the far, far left, aren't happy with me," she said. "They don't like the fact that that I'm a Blue Dog and really push fiscal responsibility and deficit reforms. I've voted against my leadership."

..........."

1 Reply

@okie,

so the democrats had her shot...?

1 Reply

@snood,

snood wrote:

sozobe wrote:

I think a lot of it was luck, too -- the precise trajectory, the kind of bullet used, etc. (I'm always nervous about ascribing too much credit to people for healing or surviving because what does that say about the ones who don't?)

It does sound like she's a tough lady though. I continue to wish her the best.

I know what you mean about giving credit for healing. I thought it was interesting that the doctors keep using the words "miracle" and "miraculous" when talking about her recovery.

I just hope it's a meaningful recovery for this woman....ie that the brain damage isn't too bad.

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@Rockhead,

No. I am only pointing out more obvious flaws in the Democrats first hours accusations. Not only was the guy a mental case, which was apparently the primary cause of the crime, but if there was any political motivation involved at all in this crime, it would have been in the opposite way than some pundits and Democrats seemed to suggest right away. The reason I post this is because those that wanted to go down that road are not telling us where that road led, and so I think it is appropriate that we know where that road led. It did not lead to any evidence that a rightee shot a liberal Democrat. It led to just the opposite, a leftie shot a conservative Democrat that opposed her own party's leadership on many issues.

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@okie,

defensively sad...

you should write for Sara.

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@DrewDad,

Do not all observations have to be interpreted? Is not arrogance a Overbearing pride, which may be considered a complex secondary emotion?

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@Rockhead,

Facts just don't cooperate with your template very often, do they, Rocky ?

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@okie,

facts as interpreted by the okester are not the same as real facts.

ever...

what would my template be, sir?

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@sozobe,

Good point sozobe. I regret my statement about the will to live. I don't mean to imply anything about those who did not survive. I meant more to comment about how grateful her recovery is going well considering the serious nature of her attack.

A
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@Rockhead,

I deleted my last post, Rockhead. I don't really think debating this any further with you will be productive. All the facts speak for themselves, which I have posted already. If you have any disagreement with those facts or an alternate set of evidence, then it might be of interest. Otherwise not.

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@reasoning logic,

Pedantry is an observable behavior, as well.

1 Reply

@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

no, but as the economy squeezes tighter, we may meet a few more of them...

Obamanomics = more people feeling equally miserable.

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@DrewDad,

Yes I do agree that is why I seem to have only questions and no answers! Are not all behaviors observable at times?

1 Reply

House of Reps. member Giffords shot in Arizona today

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