63
   

House of Reps. member Giffords shot in Arizona today

 
 
parados
 
  4  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 09:40 am
So having been away from this thread for a couple of days... Is this really what people are saying here?

It seems everyone thinks or says they want to kill someone at some time and we would all be better off if those people were armed at the time they have those thoughts.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 09:45 am
@parados,
Victims need to be better armed than their predators (man or beast).
parados
 
  4  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 09:47 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Victims need to be better armed than their predators (man or beast).

But since all victims are also predators that would be impossible, would it not David?
ehBeth
 
  5  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 09:50 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

I don't believe that anyone is so perfect as to have never uttered a comment either in jest or anger that they wouldn't want an unstable person to act on.


there's nothing perfect about it. Just different from you, in this case.

We're not all the same. We don't all think the same way or behave the same way or have the same expectations of others.

The problem I have with your reaction to all of this is that your expressed opinion is that you know more about other people than they know about themselves. That is more than a simple difference of opinion - that is arrogance.
ehBeth
 
  9  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 09:56 am
@OmSigDAVID,
The problem is that there are mental health consequences to thinking of oneself as a victim.

I mean, my perception of you, David, is as a frightened man who thinks of himself as a victim - and that's why you want guns. I'm not willing to think that way. I don't feel frightened in my world, and I don't think of myself as a victim. I don't feel a need for a weapon the way you appear to.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 09:57 am
@parados,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Victims need to be better armed than their predators (man or beast).
parados wrote:
But since all victims are also predators that would be impossible, would it not David?
I challenge your premise.
djjd62
 
  3  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 10:16 am
@ehBeth,
exactly
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 10:28 am
This is the video that got Loughner kicked out of Pima CC
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 10:39 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
The problem is that there are mental health consequences to thinking of oneself as a victim.
People shoud not think of themselves as victims (except as to particular events).
People shoud hope for the best
and be prepared for the worst.



ehBeth wrote:
I mean, my perception of you, David,
is as a frightened man who thinks of himself as a victim - and that's why you want guns.
That is error.
In my posts, I have indicated the contrary.
I fear nothing and I have no wish for more guns.
I have had plenty of guns for many decades;
I have more than enuf to attend to my personal security.
My point has been that I WANT MY FELLOW CITIZENS
TO BE HABITUALLY VERY WELL ARMED
.
The only time in my life when I felt uneasy,
as a POTENTIAL victim, (not an actual victim) was for a few weeks
at age 8, when I was home alone a lot, wondering HOW I 'd defend my place,
if that became necessary. (It never did.) I became serene, upon acquisition
of my first revolver, a .38 caliber Smith & Wesson Model 36.




ehBeth wrote:
I'm not willing to think that way. I don't feel frightened in my world,
Neither do I,
but I want to live in AN ARMED SOCIETY.
That promotes self-reliance and it is anti-collectivist.
It promotes Individualism, personal liberty and hedonism.




ehBeth wrote:
and I don't think of myself as a victim.
I don't feel a need for a weapon the way you appear to.
I have no need of more guns.
I have enuf. I want my fellow citizens
to be habitually well armed, at all times.
I desire the restoration of the status quo ante




David
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 10:41 am
@parados,
Quote:
It seems everyone thinks or says they want to kill someone at some time and we would all be better off if those people were armed at the time they have those thoughts.


Huh? Not me.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 11:12 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Fido-- If everyone was a "law unto himself" why would he be accountable to any other law?

Surely it would be better if nobody was armed unless what is better for a particular industry is better for the generality.

Our police are unarmed except for small specialised units which might be needed in certain exceptional circumstances.

I gather that there are 280 million guns in private hands in the US. Mistrust, suspicion and paranoia are inevitable.
When people were a law unto themselves they were still accountable to their communities, because ultimately the community had to account for the actions of all of its members... If one person killed another outside of their group it was the whole group that then had to fear revenge, and the other whole group that had the obligation of revenge against them... As the Arabs would say: Our blood has been shed... And if you did not seek revenge, not only a life was taken from you but your honor...

Now, it is thought that the individual acts on his own.... Now, because of the social contract we give up the right to instant justice, which often means the right to any kind of justice for the promise of peace and justice through law... Having peace, those who manage the law often turn it toward injustice and forget that peace depends upon justice... And still we see where communiities like the blacks who have no community control are still held responsible as a group for the actions of a few... I could see it if they had power over their own, but since they are powerless, unable to police their own; why discriminate against them because of a few criminals who most often prey upon them???

Look at us... The West has grown up under the shelter of law, and it is because of constant feud justice that some societies have not progressed... But people need justice and the state should provide for justice and when it does not the people still need justice and suffer the want of it... We do not have feud justice, but instead our injustice spills over every border until the next war is begun with the end of the last... We think we can take our justice from the justice of others when in fact, we only make the pool of injust ice larger... And law in protecting the weak from the strong also makes the whole society weak; and the only advantage is that in prtecting the smart from the dumb it makes the society smarter; but for what; if the smart only use the cover of law to plunder the poor and uneducated which divides and weakens the society in the face of the inevitable international enemies...

Law does not work, and it destroys communities and community controls, until parents cannot dare discipline their children if they cannot afford an attorney... Under law all are seen as individuals having individual responsibility and individual rights, and there is no limit to it... Who does this empower besides lawyers, and who does it make rich but those employed by law ???

In t he county where I live, law is the single largest expense bar none... Ask those people who are beating the **** out of us in education if their children fear their parents, or teachers, or if their parents and teachers must fear them... There was always some sort of law, or understanding among tribal people... Everyone knew the rules... The people themselves enforced the rules, and this fits with a democracy... But, within ones own community a nearly perfect freedom reigned... Now, we are not free, not democratic, and no where can any community rule its own... There is no such thing as a little law... Law, once established must push into every area of human activity until no one can dare open their mouths without consulting an attorney... Not even the attorneys are free of law... Law does not work... Unless the people can master the law they are its servants...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 11:16 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

farmerman wrote:
GOOD GOD!!
SOmebody check the skies to see whether pigs are flying about.
I actually agree with spendis take on this, and actually get his attempt at sarcasm.

I can imagine Dave, each morning, as he finsishes his ablutions,
"locking and loading" all his pistolae. Life does offer more dont it.?
I do not lock nor load pistols @ day.
In the deathless words of John Dillinger:
"2 things that shoud never be trusted
are the word of a district attorney
and an automatic pistol."


Thay jam too much. Tho I own some, mostly
as artifacts of history, I do not rely upon pistols
for security, nor do I load them, except for practice at a gunnery range.

I prefer revolvers. Tho I have some .38s
( 1 or 2 since age 8 ), I choose a .44 special in Stainless Steel Mirror, for personal security.
http://www.proguns.com/images/used-guns/usedguns247-904/278taurus445.jpg
.44s have better STOPPING POWER,
loaded with hollowpointed slugs with W-I-D-E cavities.





David
Shutttttt up man... You are getting me all goooooeeey... I love the power of life or death in my gnarley old hands... The joy is gone... The beauty is but memory; but I can still snatch the life out of a body with a finger tip... That is why God invented firearms... He must have known how wonderful it would make me feel...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  4  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 11:18 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

realjohnboy wrote:

I am genuinely curious about something. Arizona has, I guess, a relatively high percentage of the population owning guns. Hunting guns, target shooting guns.
How does it compare to other states in regard to concealed weapons permits?
There were dozens, perhaps a 100 people in the area close to Rep Giffords at the Safeway store. Why did none of them take any action?
Instead the guy was was taken down by a 71-year old man, a 60-something woman and a couple of other people.
probably unarmed Democrats there to see their elected representative

Note that no license is legally necessary
in Arizona to possess a concealed weapon on your body.





David
And no sound mind is required either... Do they wear hats out there or just let their brains bake in the mid day sun???
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 11:25 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

blueveinedthrobber wrote:
I am building my constituency, quietly and without fanfare, to get on the 2012 ballot in North Carolina . I'm confident this will cause a groundswell of support for my new third party and that I will sweep the election in 2016.
Does that "groundswell" have a chance of reaching 1% of the vote ?
Its not that people have a choice... Maybe ninty percent of either party is voting against the other party; Period... And the other ten percent can't tell who's face is on the dollar bill... I think the best thing would be for the planets to align and drag either party into power with an overwhelming majority... Then they could totally discredit themselves, and surrender life...The game as it stands is about stalemate, and so long as that can be kept, the people will remain powerless...
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  6  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 11:45 am
Political Pundits Surprisingly Good at Getting Inside Mentally Unbalanced Shooter's Head

January 14, 2011
NEW YORK—According to media analysts, the nation's TV commentators and political pundits have proved uncannily accurate when describing the deeply disturbed inner thoughts of accused Arizona gunman Jared Loughner. "It's strange, but when it comes to getting inside the mind of this human being who seems to possess no empathy, sense of morality, or hold on reality, and who is motivated only by personal animus and self-glorification, the nation's major political pundits have been amazingly adept," said Horizon Media analyst Bob Cullen, who has studied extensive tape of commentators on all major TV news programs and found their remarks on "what the killer is thinking" to be consistently thorough and detailed across the board. "It's almost as though they have some way of knowing, firsthand, exactly what this demented and highly dangerous individual with the eyes of millions upon him is going through." Researchers at Horizon Media also reported that a number of prominent TV pundits appeared to be mimicking the exact same chilling gleam in Loughner's eye for what they could only speculate was "dramatic effect."

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 11:49 am
@Irishk,
They do seem to be enjoying it I must admit.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 01:01 pm
@Irishk,
That was much more lucid than I thought it would be. Maybe it's because I've read about the issues he has with the money system and the school that booted him that I was able to follow it, but it seems that a "B" grade on a paper with dings on his grammar was the source of that video.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 01:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
Government will always try to increase it share of the GNP and doing more with less and with less pay is now the norm in the private sector even more so then the public sector.

And in Florida, the Dade County police is now wasting manpower by raiding small bars and shops for having what may or may not be illegal electronic games.

The law is hardly clear but in any case, if they had the funds for that kind of "police work" they do not need a bigger share of the pie in my opinion beside this is the results of bad blood between the police chief and the county mayor.

Then in a northern county of Florida the county sheriff got his name in the national papers by spending law enforcement resources to go after a nut case living half way across the country for selling and sending a pedophile how to book to Florida at the sheriff request.

The case is going to be eating up one hell of a lot of the legal system funding and in the end that damn first amendment is likely to be a showstopper after many hundreds of thousands of dollars had gone up in smoke.

In Florida to sum up it appear that the police had too must funding and not enough real police work to keep them busy.

0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 01:29 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:
That was much more lucid than I thought it would be. Maybe it's because I've read about the issues he has with the money system and the school that booted him that I was able to follow it, but it seems that a "B" grade on a paper with dings on his grammar was the source of that video.


After reading/watching his other youtubes, I wasn't sure what to expect. I was still trying to figure out his 'currency' issues (which was somewhat explained by a friend of his who said he was highly influenced by the documentary, 'Zeitgeist'.) I found his rants in the video bizarre, though.

~“The war that we are in right now is currently illegal under the Constitution”
~“What makes it illegal is the currency. The date is also wrong. It’s impossible for it to be that date. It’s mind control.”
~“This is my genocide school. Where I’m going to be homeless because of this school”
~“I haven’t forgotten the teacher that gave me a B for freedom of speech”
~“This is Pima Community College, one of the biggest scams in America”
~“If the student is unable to locate the external universe, the student is unable to locate the internal universe”
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2011 02:43 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
Victims need to be better armed than their predators (man or beast).
parados wrote:
But since all victims are also predators that would be impossible, would it not David?
I challenge your premise.

Are you saying everyone doesn't have a desire to kill someone at one point or another? Or are you saying everyone isn't a potential victim?
 

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