63
   

House of Reps. member Giffords shot in Arizona today

 
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 01:26 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Good grief but some people are asses! Sanctimonious twits like Aidan are hardly policing their every day speech and please don't try to suggest that you are.

Yeah - no, okay - I'll wait for you to tell me what I am. Too bad you have no idea.
Quote:
Everyone on God's green earth has said something like "I could kill him," or "I wish he would drop dead." When you say such things, (and if you are honest, you will admit you do), do you look around for the possible lunatic who might take you seriously?

Who is it that you posit I've ever wished would drop dead or would want to kill?
Honestly, who? I can't think of a single person I have ever disliked enough to wish they had the flu or broke a finger...I just don't roll that way. If I don't like someone, I back away and leave them alone. Job done - they're out of my life.
Quote:
Of course you don't and if you argue otherwise you are a liar.

I also don't call people names.

Quote:
Madmen are triggered by all sorts of obscure and obtuse stimuli. The thought that we might be able to anticipate what they choose as a foundation for mass murder is simply ridiculous.

No, but we can control our own behavior and not utter or produce violent rhetoric that is seen by millions of people and could possibly be misinterpreted by the particularly and specifically wrong one.

Quote:
Good lord will you sanctimonious fools go huddle at a coffee house and spare the rest of us your nonsense?

I prefer a pub...is that alright with you Mr Finn d'Abuzz who is a grown man and still calling other adults names?

Whatever...

URL: http://able2know.org/reply/post-4476014
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 02:14 pm
@aidan,
If you say so
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 02:16 pm
I find the lack of belief amongst Conservatives here that others have different speech patterns then they to be hilarious. To the extent that they accuse others of lying when they claim differently.

Personally I use violent rhetoric in my private life all the time. But not in my public life.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 02:16 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Yeah, I do - is that alright?
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  5  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 02:20 pm
Meanwhile... Gabrielle Giffords' condition continues to improve at a pretty amazing pace.

Quote:
Representative Gabrielle Giffords, who was shot in the head at close range Saturday, is able to keep her eyes open for up to 15 minutes at a time and can move her legs and hands, although her right hand has only slight movement, doctors at University Medical Center said Thursday morning.

“She is doing some fairly specific things with her left hand,” Dr. Peter Rhee, the hospital’s chief of trauma told a news conference. “She is yawning. She is starting to rub her eyes.”

Dr. G. Michael Lemole Jr., the hospital’s chief of neurosurgery, said Ms. Giffords can also “move both of her legs to command.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/14/us/14giffords.html

I also saw that they were actually sitting her up in bed, and that the breathing tube should come out soon (tomorrow?) and then there is the possibility that she will be able to talk. But she is already squeezing hands in specific meaningful ways (no details were given but I assume along the lines of "once for yes, twice for no.")
McTag
 
  0  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 02:22 pm

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/1/12/1294872882530/Steve-Bell-cartoon-13.01.-001.jpg
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 02:23 pm
@sozobe,
Yay! Tough lady.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 02:26 pm
I never use violent rhetoric anytime. It's demeaning. I sympathise with the victims of Media. Mrs Palin seems to me to be running a twee Hitler number. And she's not alone. No Christian she.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 02:43 pm
I'm seeing what may be an attempt by MSNBC to give Boehner the benefit of the doubt for attending an RNC "cocktail party" instead of attending the memorial last night. I think last week the headlines would have been more along the lines of Boehner snubbing the memorial, or snubbing the WH's invitation to favor of his RNC event, but I'm seeing (I think) a subtle difference today in how they're presenting it.

Andrea Mitchell just had someone from Politico on saying that Boehner had a conflict with the 1:00pm departure and perhaps should have rescheduled his appearance at the RNC party, but I don't get the same tone of rhetoric that I'm used to.

Maybe I'm imagining it, but I also think that Fox News President Roger Ailes' statement earlier this week may be having an impact.
Quote:
"They're using this thing... apparently there was a map from one of Palin's things that had [Giffords] targeted district," Ailes said. "So, we looked at the Internet and the first thing we found in 2007, the Democrat Party had a targeted map with targets on it for the Palin district. These maps have been used for for years that I know of."

But Ailes called the use of such imagery "bulls**t" and said "both sides are wrong, but they both do it."

"I told all of our guys, shut up, tone it down, make your argument intellectually," the Fox News president said. "You don't have to do it with bombast. I hope the other side does that."
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 02:44 pm
@JPB,
Reports in the lefty media say that there's no real reason to criticize him for not attending yesterday.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_01/027525.php

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 03:14 pm
Jared Loughner did post some of his feelings and thoughts online--particularly at a gaming site.
Quote:
JANUARY 12, 2011
Postings of a Troubled Mind
Accused Shooter Wrote on Gaming Site of His Job Woes, Rejection by Women.
By ALEXANDRA BERZON, JOHN R. EMSHWILLER And ROBERT A. GUTH

Last May 9, at two in the morning, Jared Lee Loughner typed a question to a group of about 50 online gamers located around the world: "Does anyone have aggression 24/7?"

He was back at his keyboard the following night. "If you went to prison right now...What would you be thinking?" he asked.

Online postings last year by accused gunman Jared Lee Loughner.

A trove of 131 online-forum postings written between April and June 2010, which were viewed by The Wall Street Journal, provides insight into Mr. Loughner's mind-set in the year leading up to Saturday's shootings in Tucson, Ariz. He stands accused of killing six people, gravely wounding Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D., Ariz.) and injuring 13 others.

The online postings paint a picture of a disturbed young man trying to impress his peers and struggling to find a purpose to his life. They range from prosaic chatter about weight lifting to nonsensical philosophical ramblings that left some of the gamers who read them wondering whether he was using drugs or had a mental disability.

On Tuesday, after a search of the Loughners' home, federal investigators found a letter from Rep. Giffords's office in which Mr. Loughner had scribbled the words "Die Cops" and "Die Bitch," said Capt. Chris Nanos of the Pima County Sheriff's Department. Capt. Nanos, who was briefed on the findings, said Mr. Loughner had also referenced an assassination in handwritten notes on the letter.

The letter, dated 2007, was a form document sent by the staff of Rep. Giffords to thank Mr. Loughner for attending one of her events.

Capt. Nanos confirmed that Tucson local authorities had visited the Loughners' house in the past for minor incidents unrelated to the suspect, except for once: Around 2006 or 2007, the suspect called the authorities to report a case of identity theft. "Someone had used his name on MySpace or Facebook," Capt. Nanos said.

The online-forum messages exhibit a growing frustration that, at 22 years of age, Mr. Loughner couldn't land a minimum-wage job and was spurned by women. By May 15, he wrote, he hadn't had a paycheck in six months. A month later, he wrote that he had submitted 65 applications, yet "no interview."

At times, Mr. Loughner seemed to be reaching out to fellow gamers for help and advice, albeit in a disturbing way. Sometimes they offered it, such as giving him pointers about job hunting. At other times, his postings seemed so outrageous that the gamers mocked or ignored him.

The online postings, written using pseudonyms, were shared with the Journal by a person who had access to them. Two fellow gamers who participated in the online forums say the author was the accused gunman, and some of the postings discuss incidents from Mr. Loughner's life that others have corroborated.

Mr. Loughner's family on Tuesday made its first comments since the shootings. In a written statement, Randy and Amy Loughner said they couldn't understand what motivated their son and expressed condolences for the victims and their families. "There are no words that can possibly express how we feel," they said. "We are so very sorry for their loss."

Mr. Loughner had a history of asking provocative questions. In early high school, he asked unusual questions that were innocent, such as one time when he asked a friend about the purpose of human toes, recalls Joseph Headlee, a former high-school classmate.

His recent online postings are more disturbing. On April 24, he asked: "Would you hit a Handy Cap Child/ Adult?" On May 20 at 12:03 a.m., he remarked: "I bet your hungry....Because i know how to cut a body open and eat you for more then a week. ;-)"

The postings exhibit fixations on grammar, the education system, government and currency, which some friends and acquaintances have described separately in the days since the attack. They are peppered with displays of misogyny.

Mr. Loughner's posts don't mention Rep. Giffords, who is believed to have been the target of the attack, nor do they give any indication that Mr. Loughner was plotting a shooting. But several mention mental breakdowns and violent thoughts. One post alluded to the Fifth Amendment, which aims to protect citizens against the government abusing its power in legal proceedings.

Mr. Loughner posted the messages in a private forum associated with the online game Earth Empires. On Tuesday, the site's administrator in a public forum admonished members for sharing information with the media.

In a separate forum, the administrator wrote that he would cooperate with federal authorities if asked. "I want this information to get to the right hands, but I want to make sure it's done through the proper legal means," he wrote.

Gaming appears to have been an important part of Mr. Loughner's life. In the 7th grade, he and a friend, Alex Montanaro, began playing the multiplayer online games Starcraft and Diablo, which featured complex virtual worlds where players assume roles and play against other people around the globe, Mr. Montanaro said in emails over the weekend and Monday.

Around the 9th grade, recalls Mr. Montanaro, Mr. Loughner abandoned the old games and started playing Earth: 2025, now called Earth Empires, a text-based game in which players assume the form of a country and develop its economy. Players form clans and battle other clans.

The game includes social networks built around the clan alliances—private online forums in which players conversed. In those forums at that time, Mr. Loughner often spouted conspiracy theories and got into heated debates with others, according to a forum participant who has been reading Mr. Loughner's posts for years. Mr. Loughner originally played under the pseudonyms Cries and Cry. At various times he also used the aliases Heroin, XTC and Erad, according to two people familiar with the matter, and played for various clans.

Around 10th grade, Mr. Loughner began acting more strangely and separating from his friends, according to Mr. Montanaro. Mr. Loughner took a break from the gaming world in 2008 but resumed a year later, says Mr. Montanaro. Mr. Loughner joined an online alliance called SancTuarY/Collab. He wrote under the pseudonym Dare. After last June, he stopped playing, says the games administrator.

Mr. Loughner seemed consumed with the outlet the private-posting world provided, says Mr. Montanaro, who was also part of SancT/Collab. Compared with the debates he had engaged in as a young teen, his postings were often nonsensical, say people who knew him in both settings. Mr. Montanaro described them as "weird poems coupled with 'logic' statements."

Even in a setting that includes the raw and often raunchy thoughts of young men, Mr. Loughner's postings were startling. They show an obsession with language, a hatred of the educational system and aggression—all of which later became themes of videos posted by Mr. Loughner on YouTube in the months before the shooting. In the forum posts, Mr. Loughner never mentions any political views explicitly, nor does he name any political figures.

On April 24, Mr. Loughner titled a new online thread: "Would you hit a Handy Cap Child/ Adult?" He wrote: "This is a very interesting question….There are mental retarded children. They're possessing teachers that are typing for money. This will never stop….The drug addicts need to be weeded out to be more intelligent. The Principle of this is that them c— educators need to stop being pigs."

Later that day, he posted a rant titled "Why Rape," which said women in college enjoyed being raped. "There are Rape victims that are under the influence of a substance. The drinking is leading them to rape. The loneliness will bring you to depression. Being alone for a very long time will inevitably lead you to rape."

Some participants in the forum suggested that he must be on drugs, while others said he may be mentally impaired. One forum participant who has read his postings says it was only in retrospect, after the shootings, that he realized that Mr. Loughner appeared mentally unstable in his messages.

On April 28, Mr. Loughner wrote: "How many stars are in the universe?" Other posters responded with mathematical calculations. Later in the thread, Mr. Loughner shifted gears: "What do Chocolate cookies taste like?"

On May 2, Mr. Loughner wrote: "This forum made me feel better....," followed by the emoticon for a smiling face.

The same day, he started a thread called "Weight Lifting," and asked whether anyone else lifted. He described himself as 5 feet 10 inches tall and 155 pounds, and said he could do 65 push-ups, bench press 165 pounds, and do 25 pull-ups and 100 sit-ups, "(thanks to the ab machine)." He said he could run a mile in between 6 minutes, 30 seconds, and 6 minutes, 50 seconds. "I'm flexible" after "years of stretches," he wrote. "Diet is key."

On May 14, at 10:50 p.m., Mr. Loughner begins an online thread he called, "How many applications....is a lot?" It contained what appears to be a list of 21 retail outlets he had applied to or failed to get a job at, including Crate & Barrel, Wendy's and Domino's Pizza.

Some posters expressed surprise. One noted he hasn't applied for that many jobs in his life.

Mr. Loughner had been arrested in Pima County in 2007 and charged with possession of drugs and drug paraphernalia, according to court records. His case was dismissed. In October 2008, he was arrested for scrawling graffiti on a street sign. He paid restitution and attended a diversion program, a court administrator said.

In the online forum, Mr. Loughner wrote that he was having trouble landing a job because of his work history and criminal record. He explained that he had had five "terminations," listing Peter Piper Pizza, "Chineese" fast food, Red Robin, Quiznos and Eddie Bauer. He wrote that the list of firings "will be updated." He wrote: "I'm thinking....2 misdemeanors hurt. Don't do Graffiti."

He hinted at a different problem at the Red Robin. "I had to walk out of red robin," he wrote. "Terrible situation. Mental breakdown." Mr. Montanaro, who also worked at the restaurant, says Mr. Loughner "just hated his job" and one night said "he couldn't take it anymore" and quit.

..One poster joked that the group can give him a leadership role on the video game. Mr. Loughner responded: "...Ha.....ha....ha.....And waste more time of my life...this is like my social life...I know everything is made fun of.."

One gamer advised him that in order to get a job, he needed to provide potential employers such things as references and a list of jobs he had held previously. Mr. Loughner replied in a profanity-laced message that he knew that. "CANT HOLD TERMINATION AGAINST FUTURE EMPLOYEE !" He repeated that line 117 times.

Anger increasingly permeated his postings.

On May 5, he started a thread titled "Talk, Talk, Talking about Rejection." He solicited stories of rejection by the opposite sex. The next day he wrote, "Its funny...when..they say lets go on a date about 3 times..and they dont....go..." Three days later, he wrote, "Its funny when your 60 wondering......what happen at 21."

On May 9 at 2:00 a.m., he asked: "Does anyone have aggression 24/7?" By noon, when others suggested he try smoking marijuana, he said: "No weed. No drugs. It's not like I can't see my brain."

The following night, he titled a thread: "If you went to prison right now.....What would you be thinking?" He added, "Just curious?" After others responded that they would do everything they could to avoid going to prison, including commit suicide, Mr. Loughner said, "Let's say you are in the cell for life...For nothing." A few minutes later he added, "21...going to college...no workplace."

In his online postings, he comments on problems he had at Pima Community College, which have been reported previously. His math instructor, Ben McGahee, said recently that Mr. Loughner's off-topic outbursts during class scared students and disrupted the class. Mr. Loughner was suspended from the school and withdrew last October.

On June 3 at 12:14 a.m. Mr. Loughner described one confrontation with Mr. McGahee, writing to his fellow gamers that he had asked the teacher: "Are you just getting a pay check for brainwashing?" as well as questioning if the class was a "scam" and asking, "can you tell me how to Deny math?" He wrote that the teacher told him it was a stupid question and he should "GET OUT OF MY CLASS!"

The next day, after he had to see a school counselor, he wrote: "Told her about brainwashing a child and how that can change the view of mathematics."

Since the news of Mr. Loughner's alleged role in the shootings broke, members in the public forums of Earth Empires expressed shock that one of their own would take such action, and worried that people would point fingers at the game or the community.

"This is an immeasurable tragedy, and it pains me that someone from our close-knit community could be involved in such a heinous act," the administrator wrote on Sunday. Later that day he wrote, "I reviewed some of the posts he made and they're....disturbing."

One member wrote, "I can't stand that I know him."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703791904576075851892478080.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 03:42 pm
This is quite encouraging.

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Most Americans reject the idea that inflammatory political language by conservatives should be part of the debate about the forces behind the Arizona shooting that left six people dead and a congresswoman in critical condition, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds.

A 53% majority of those surveyed call that analysis mostly an attempt to use the tragedy to make conservatives look bad. About a third, 35%, say it is a legitimate point about how dangerous language can be.

And there is little sense that stricter gun control laws in Arizona might have averted the tragedy. Only one in five say they would have prevented the shooting; 72% say tighter controls wouldn't have prevented it.


As is

Quote:
If, as has been discussed in recent days, their death helps usher in more civility in our public discourse, let us remember it is not because a simple lack of civility caused this tragedy--it did not--but rather because only a more civil and honest public discourse can help us face up to the challenges of our nation in a way that would make them proud.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-01-12-poll-ariz-shooting_N.htm?csp=34news

Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 03:43 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
We don't need stricter gun control laws, we just need the ones we have to be enforced. Right now the databases behind the system are so woefully inadequate that guys like this have no problem getting approved...

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 03:57 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
This is quite encouraging.
Quote:
WASHINGTON — Most Americans reject the idea that inflammatory political language by conservatives should be part of the debate about the forces behind the Arizona shooting that left six people dead and a congresswoman in critical condition, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds.
.....
Is it really encouraging, Finn? What it tells me is that USA TODAY and Gallup as part of the establishment media in cooperation with Demcrats persist in spreading the falsehood that it is the inflammatory political language by conservatives being an issue, when I believe there is far more inflammatory political language coming from the left. The evidence was there during the Bush years, and it continues to this day. In fact, I think the entire case that leftists tried to build in this case, trying to blame conservatives for the killing, that such an accusation in itself is inflammatory, unjustified, and essentially a pack of lies. They've backed off a little, but not entirely by any stretch of the imagination. Do not look for this issue to go away.

In other words, they apparently worded their poll to use the term, "inflammatory political language by conservatives," not simply "inflammatory political language." I am assuming you quoted the poll correctly, but it appears by what you wrote that they worded the poll to continue the implication that conservatives only engage in inflammatory political language, when that could not be further from the truth, and I find that offensive and I also find it to be very unrealistic and biased.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 03:58 pm
If we analyse the problem of hysterical political rhetoric, then certainly we should examine what would be a proper and improper symptom of it. I think the AZ shooting is certainly symptomatic of something, but I'm not convinced it's the problem of rhetoric.

We need to define what is a measure of public (not individual) action is a sign of dangerous rhetoric.

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 03:58 pm
@okie,
Still waiting for you to link to the post in which I blame Palin for what happened, or admit that you made that up.

Cycloptichorn
blueveinedthrobber
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 04:02 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Still waiting for you to link to the post in which I blame Palin for what happened, or admit that you made that up.

Cycloptichorn


thank goodness you're young
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 04:05 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I've just checked into the forum here in the last few minutes, so I do not remember every post or challenge you may have written, cyclops. I would have to review the entire conversation from the beginning, but I think you posting the map with what you want to call crosshairs on it, I think you would have to admit that implies that you think that Palin had something to do with this event, does it not? I made nothing up. I believe you posted the map as pertinent to this case, didn't you?
okie
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 04:07 pm
@okie,
By the way, cyclops, if you have taken the map off or apologized and have admitted it had nothing to do with the crazy guy in Arizona, I will retract what I have said about it, but you must first admit that you were wrong for implicating Palin and her map.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 04:10 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

In other words, they apparently worded their poll to use the term, "inflammatory political language by conservatives," not simply "inflammatory political language." I am assuming you quoted the poll correctly, but it appears by what you wrote that they worded the poll to continue the implication that conservatives only engage in inflammatory political language, when that could not be further from the truth, and I find that offensive and I also find it to be very unrealistic and biased.


http://i55.tinypic.com/30vcchy.jpg
Full poll results online
 

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