House of Reps. member Giffords shot in Arizona today

@sozobe,

I'm nearly positive I read an early description from the point of view of one of the witnesses saying that she was shot in the face, but I don't want to go back and try and find that.

2 Replies

@JTT,

Yep, but evidently earlier that day he ran a red light.

No idea how that connects to the taxi.

Here's a source:

Quote:

After the shopping trips, Loughner ran a red light but was let off with a warning, the Arizona Game and Fish Department said. The officer took Loughner's driver's license and vehicle registration information at 7:30 a.m. but found no outstanding warrants and didn't search the car, a late 1960s dark gray Chevy Nova.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/01/12/132863527/loughner-was-stopped-warned-about-running-red-light-saturday-morning

Actually that's more info than what I'd seen before. Maybe he ran away from his dad and therefore didn't have access to the car anymore? I wonder why his dad was chasing him. (I mean, the black bag seems obvious, but what about it? Really wonder if his dad was worried that he'd do just what he did.)

Edit: I've seen that car (dark gray old car) in footage of the Loughner house, parked in front of the garage.

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

Rockhead asked me what they were and land or lot corners were my first thought, because first of all I am not a gun guy, I worked with maps in my geology and surveying career, so that was my first thought,

You worked in this field of surveying but you thought that on a map at this order of scale, those were marking land or lot corners!

Yeah right, Okie. Good indication of your brain processes or your facility with lying.

1 Reply

@sozobe,

I stand "setted" straight.

0 Replies

@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

I'm nearly positive I read an early description from the point of view of one of the witnesses saying that she was shot in the face, but I don't want to go back and try and find that.

I heard that too, which completely contradicts the doctor's explanation that it entered her skull in the back and left in the front.

Eye-witness testimony is often very unreliable.

1 Reply

@Ticomaya,

...the more recent doctor's explanation is that it entered in the front and left in the back. They did say for a while that they thought it was the other way 'round, and right now they're not certain either way but seem to lean towards the bullet entering at the front.

2 Replies

@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

...the more recent doctor's explanation is that it entered in the front and left in the back. They did say for a while that they thought it was the other way 'round, and right now they're not certain either way but seem to lean towards the bullet entering at the front.

I think he approached from the front.

David

0 Replies

@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

...the more recent doctor's explanation is that it entered in the front and left in the back. They did say for a while that they thought it was the other way 'round, and right now they're not certain either way but seem to lean towards the bullet entering at the front.

Hope this hasn't already been addressed but doesn't an exit wound
generally make a bigger, messier hole? Maybe those more versed in ballistic forensics can help me out there...

1 Reply

@snood,

the type of ammunition makes a big difference.

caliber as well...

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@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

the type of ammunition makes a big difference.

caliber as well...

I think it was only a 9mm.

1 Reply

My understanding is that when the bullet strikes the body it is traveling at a high velocity and has a symmetrical shape. If it passes only through flesh it will slow down somewhat but will essentially keep its shape.
If it strikes bone, though, it will not only lose a significant amount of speed. It will also lose its shape and start spinning; sort of like a flipping coin. That is what accounts for the large exit wound phenomenon.
Despite passing through Giffords' skull, the fact that she was shot at close range probably was a factor.
I am sure someone else here can provide a better explanation.

1 Reply

@realjohnboy,

The build up of debris also increases the size of the exit hole. High velocity and closeness to the victim helped.

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Quote:

Jesus, i can't believe anyone is till trying to peddle that "survey marks" horse ****.

Now it's "blood libel", Palin's a victim <sigh>

2 Replies

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Quote:
Rockhead asked me what they were and land or lot corners were my first thought, because first of all I am not a gun guy, I worked with maps in my geology and surveying career, so that was my first thought,
You worked in this field of surveying but you thought that on a map at this order of scale, those were marking land or lot corners!

Yeah right, Okie. Good indication of your brain processes or your facility with lying.

I had no idea what they meant on cyclops map. The question I was answering was what symbols like that normally might mean on maps. Sorry, but your attempt to manufacture something out of nothing isn't getting you anywhere. And you sure throw accusations of lying around very freely. Without one iota of evidence by the way.

2 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote:

JTT wrote:
Quote:
Rockhead asked me what they were and land or lot corners were my first thought, because first of all I am not a gun guy, I worked with maps in my geology and surveying career, so that was my first thought,
You worked in this field of surveying but you thought that on a map at this order of scale, those were marking land or lot corners!

Yeah right, Okie. Good indication of your brain processes or your facility with lying.
I had no idea what they meant on cyclops map. The question I was answering was what symbols like that normally might mean on maps. Sorry, but your attempt to manufacture something out of nothing isn't getting you anywhere. And you sure throw accusations of lying around very freely. Without one iota of evidence by the way.

Hey, not my map. It's Palin's map - and one in which they clearly referred to the devices as cross-hairs.

The argument that they are something else simply is not credible and really unworthy of anyone here.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@BillW,

Oh yeah, my heart bleeds for the poor, persecuted baby . . .

1 Reply

@Setanta,

If she didn't bring it on herself - a strawman victim, how ridiculous.

0 Replies

@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

I'm nearly positive I read an early description from the point of view of one of the witnesses saying that she was shot in the face, but I don't want to go back and try and find that.

I think that 's accurate, Osso.

David

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Hey, not my map. It's Palin's map - and one in which they clearly referred to the devices as cross-hairs.

The argument that they are something else simply is not credible and really unworthy of anyone here.
Cycloptichorn

Rockhead asked me the following question:
"okie, can you tell us what those surveyor's symbols mean...?" Besides not knowing why he would ask a stupid question, I replied as honestly as I could, that those types of symbols were used for property or lot corners, etc.

It doesn't matter anyway, cyclops, you are barking up the wrong tree and trying to manufacture something out of nothing. Why don't you give it up? The news seems to be confirming contrary to all the demagoguery thats already come out of your mouth and the mouths of fellow liberals, the guy that shot the congresswoman was nuts, not a political person. Read the following.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/12/report-alleged-arizona-gunman-did-watch-news-television/
"Arizona massacre gunman Jared Loughner's downward spiral may have been touched off by a broken high school romance and fueled by drug use -- but it was not politically motivated, according to his best friend in high school."

1 Reply

@okie,

Oh well, if his best friend says it's not politically motivated, I guess that's the total end of the story right there. Rolling Eyes

If you had read anything I've written in this thread, you'd know that I have never once said the guy was politically motivated - at all. But you don't really bother to do stuff like this before accusing people of things, do ya?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

House of Reps. member Giffords shot in Arizona today

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