63
   

House of Reps. member Giffords shot in Arizona today

 
 
Oylok
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 06:39 am
@OmSigDAVID,
This is irrelevant to the thread.

For one thing the wife was not criminally insane, so the extensive background checks people want would not have prevented her from gaining access to guns. For another, I don't imagine she needed that many rounds to finish off the intruder. None of the proposed gun legislation I'm aware of would ban people like these two from owning guns.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 06:39 am
@OmSigDAVID,
You're playing fast and loose with the truth here. Sarah Brady called for the bill in 1985. It was introduced into Congress in 1987, while Reagan was still President. That it was not sent to the Clinton for signature until 1993, in his first year in office does not alter that it was a product of the shooting of Reagan and Brady.
Oylok
 
  0  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 06:42 am
@Oylok,
Oylok wrote:

This is irrelevant to the thread.

For one thing the wife was not criminally insane, so the extensive background checks people want would not have prevented her from gaining access to guns. For another, I don't imagine she needed that many rounds to finish off the intruder. None of the proposed gun legislation I'm aware of would ban people like these two from owning guns.


Okay, in case it's not clear what I was referring to as "irrelevant", I meant David's pretty story about guns on the previous page.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 06:59 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
You're playing fast and loose with the truth here.
Sarah Brady called for the bill in 1985.
A private citizen mouthing off does not amount to much.



Setanta wrote:
It was introduced into Congress in 1987, while Reagan was still President.
Huge numbers of bills r introduced that do not see the light of day.
(I don 't remember how far it then got.)


Setanta wrote:
That it was not sent to the Clinton for signature until 1993,
in his first year in office does not alter that it was a product
of the shooting of Reagan and Brady.
I will concede that the bill was soaked in Brady's blood.
That was his function in the scheme.

I do not believe that the gun used on him
was affected by the bill that bore his name.
He was not shot with a shoulder weapon.
I think he was shot with a revolver,
but I 'm not sure.





David
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 07:11 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Your remark about Sarah Brady was snotty and unnecessary--i'm not surprised by that at all. She and her busband were long-time activists in the Republican Party and for conservative causes. It was hardly a case of a "private citizen mouthing off." This is another sample of your idiosyncratic and self-serving description of how highly you value civility.

Whether or not a bill "sees the light of day" is irrelevant here--it "saw the light of day," was eventually passed and signed.

You apparently don't know the provisions of the Brady Bill. It is concerned with background checks, and distinctions between types of firearms are irrelevant. I though the gun nuts always prided themselves on their detailed knowledge of weapons and the issues. I guess that doesn't apply to you.
djjd62
 
  7  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 07:16 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Your remark about Sarah Brady was snotty and unnecessary--i'm not surprised by that at all. She and her busband were long-time activists in the Republican Party and for conservative causes. It was hardly a case of a "private citizen mouthing off." This is another sample of your idiosyncratic and self-serving description of how highly you value civility.


it's interesting, i've got the impression that OSD seems to value individualism, and in my mind, a private citizen mouthing off is front and centre in that idea, unless of course that citizen is saying something you don't agree with i guess
revelette
 
  4  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 07:21 am
@mysteryman,
I can honestly say I don't remember any violent rhetoric being spouted by respected leaders and/or pundits in speeches by democrats. If they are there, they should be easily found. If they did, then they were just as wrong as those which have been pointed in the last few days here.

I know this tragic incident (so far anyway) does not seem to be related to the call to arms by those in the party. Also I believe in free speech. What I don't believe in is inciting violence as a way to a political end or any other unjustified reason. Rant all you want about Obama being a socialist and all those who support him being communist and all those things are fair game. Democrats saying Bush lied adn people died is fair game. This tragic incident may not have been caused by all the violent rhetoric over the last two years, but it could have been very easily.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 07:21 am
@farmerman,
There was a similar story in America a few years ago where the dumb masses heard these noises in their towns (there were also instances of motivational messages on radio and TV). These dumb masses did as they were told and gathered at the polls. They voted for this noisy message maker, electing him. The noisy message maker happened to be the son of his father.

A dumb mass of people has zero conscience

.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 07:23 am
@djjd62,
That's exactly what i perceive as his attitude. Someone promoting a measure of which he approves would be exercising their rights in a free society. Someone promoting a measure of which he disapproves is "mouthing off."
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 07:29 am



Giffords and her AK47
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 07:41 am
@Oylok,
Oylok wrote:
This is irrelevant to the thread.
I disagree.

Oylok wrote:
For one thing the wife was not criminally insane,
R u suggesting that the Congresswoman was "criminally insane" ?


Oylok wrote:
so the extensive background checks people want
would not have prevented her from gaining access to guns.
She was negligent in failing to bring her guns with her.
What good do thay do at home, when u r out??
Its like failing to buckle your seatbelt.




Oylok wrote:
For another, I don't imagine she needed that many rounds to finish off the intruder.
Agreed, but it is a Bill of RIGHTS, not a bill of needs.




Oylok wrote:
None of the proposed gun legislation I'm aware of would ban people
like these two from owning guns.
That is just as well, since government was never given jurisdiction to BAN that,
and government was disabled from doing that by the Bill of Rights.

Do u support "equal protection of the laws ?"





David
djjd62
 
  3  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 07:43 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Oylok wrote:
For one thing the wife was not criminally insane,
R u suggesting that the Congresswoman was "criminally insane" ?


well, what sane person would run for any public office
Oylok
 
  2  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 07:44 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Even more so than the overtly violent rhetoric is the constant and never-ending drumbeat of extreme and sometimes paranoid rhetoric to back it up. I'm sure I don't have to go into Glenn Beck or the vagaries of Fox, or Rush Limbaugh; but you ought to also consider the extreme rhetoric regularly utilized by elected Republicans.


Speaking of Limbaugh, I guess we're all familiar with his recent accusations against the Democrats?

“What Mr. Loughner knows is that he has the full support of a major political party in this country . . . he knows that . . . the Democrat party is attempting to find anybody but him to blame. He knows if he plays his cards right, he’s just a victim. . . . This guy clearly understands he’s getting all the attention and he understands he’s got a political party doing everything it can, plus a local sheriff doing everything that they can to make sure he’s not convicted of murder – but something lesser.”
http://www.mediaite.com/online/limbaugh-jared-loughner-has-the-full-support-of-the-democratic-party/

Well, it seems the assassin who killed a rising star in the Democratic Party has the Democrats to "look out for him." Phew, I kind of thought we Dems all wanted that psychotic bastard dead, too. Wink

Oylok
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 07:47 am
@djjd62,
Laughing

(But ... no, I was not suggesting Giffords was insane.)
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 07:47 am
@Oylok,
umm, he hasn't killed a rising star in the democratic party, not yet anyway
Oylok
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 08:01 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

She was negligent in failing to bring her guns with her.
What good do thay do at home, when u r out??
Its like failing to buckle your seatbelt.


I'm only just reading your post after researching that Limbaugh article. Interesting point. So you believe this disaster wouldn't have happened if she'd been totin' her guns, eh? I heard Loughner hit her from behind. What good are guns against that?

Quote:
Do u support "equal protection of the laws ?"


Within reason.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 08:11 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Your remark about Sarah Brady was snotty and unnecessary--i'm not surprised by that at all.
Its not my job to surprize u.


Setanta wrote:
She and her busband were long-time activists in the Republican Party and for conservative causes.
There is nothing conservative about gun control; it is a radical repudiation of the Bill of Rights.
If she was an activist for conservatism, as u claim,
then she became a Benedict Arnold.

I was very close to being shot once; slug 3 inches in front of my face.
If I get shot in the future, I will not betray the Constitution.




Setanta wrote:
It was hardly a case of a "private citizen mouthing off."
This is another sample of your idiosyncratic and
self-serving description of how highly you value civility.
U appear to be ignorant of the concept
at hand; permit me to enlighten u: if I had vilified u,
then I 'd be guilty of inadequate civility,
but civility does not restrain me (nor anyone)
from condemning other figures who are not
participants in this conversation; accordingly,
I can freely denounce Stalin, Hitler, the Kennedys and Pol Pot without compromising civility.
Got the idea??




Setanta wrote:
Whether or not a bill "sees the light of day" is irrelevant here--it "saw the light of day,"
was eventually passed and signed.
Not during the Reagan nor even the Bush Administration; that 's the point.
We KNOW, everyone KNOWS, that it was passed under Clinton,
with the result that American resentment among
the voters cost the Demos BOTH houses of Congress,
by landslides -- a slap in the face to Clinton. He knew it.





Setanta wrote:
You apparently don't know the provisions of the Brady Bill.
It is concerned with background checks,
Yes.


Setanta wrote:
and distinctions between types of firearms are irrelevant.
No; ridiculous.



Setanta wrote:
I though the gun nuts always prided themselves on their detailed knowledge of weapons and the issues. I guess that doesn't apply to you.
With age, my memory is not always as sharp as I 'd like.
Some of the statute has expired. I remember that.





David
0 Replies
 
Oylok
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 08:29 am
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

umm, he hasn't killed a rising star in the democratic party, not yet anyway


She won't die. I just hope that she fully recovers--that he hasn't mangled her mind permanently. I generally don't follow politics, but this attempted assassination (apolitical though it may be) really pisses me off. I remember the first interview NPR did with her 4 years ago:
http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=6487307&m=6487308

To use Loughner's own "grammar":

If I am saying he was a worthless and demented idiot, then he had no right to shoot her.
I am saying he was a worthless and demented idiot.
Hence, he had no right to shoot her.
0 Replies
 
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  2  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 08:47 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Hi as an old army man. I believe firing guns are a blast Smile But I believe if we invested more money in well placed. Cameras I think it would be alot better deterant than, "OMG I dont want to break in because they have a gun". Argument. I mean well lets look at facts, Banks have guns are still robbed, Armored cars have guns and are still robbed, On the other hand a simple camera along with a sign saying 'Smile you are being filmed for the protection of this neighbor hood' . In my opinion that would scare the heck out of most criminals. Now I am not arguing about the right to bear arms........ I belive it is our right to do as we chose. And I believe this conversation stared from the actions of a person that happened to be mentaly ill. Ohh geez I think my mentally ill mind is going to left field again........ Well I hope I was able to get my point of view accross Smile Thank You for reading Smile
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 08:55 am
@peter jeffrey cobb,
peter jeffrey cobb wrote:
Hi as an old army man. I believe firing guns are a blast Smile But I believe if we invested more money in well placed. Cameras I think it would be alot better deterant than, "OMG I dont want to break in because they have a gun". Argument. I mean well lets look at facts, Banks have guns are still robbed, Armored cars have guns and are still robbed, On the other hand a simple camera along with a sign saying 'Smile you are being filmed for the protection of this neighbor hood' . In my opinion that would scare the heck out of most criminals. Now I am not arguing about the right to bear arms........ I belive it is our right to do as we chose. And I believe this conversation stared from the actions of a person that happened to be mentaly ill. Ohh geez I think my mentally ill mind is going to left field again........ Well I hope I was able to get my point of view accross Smile Thank You for reading Smile
OK, thank u, Mr. Cobb.
Cameras and guns are both good
and are both fun to shoot.





David
 

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