Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

@Foofie,

Nor would foreign countries investing in US real estate be unusual. Happens all the time. I think we would be happy to have both the investment and the jobs.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

There have been several contradicting reports on it, but a mosque is a mosque. Trying to call it something else is juvenile and uncalled for.

I think they might be trying to play down the 'mosque' part (hence the tweets saying it's not a mosque) and play up the cultural center part due to all the negative publicity because of its location. They indicate on their website that they want the tax-exempt status, though, and apparently the mosque is necessary in order to receive that.

Quote:

However, it's my understanding that there are several locations close by that Muslims use for prayers. I wonder how that differs from having a mosque?

No idea. They'll be offering, among other things, classes on Islam 101...sounds like you and I could both use it ... Smile

0 Replies

@engineer,

Quote:

Nor would foreign countries investing in US real estate be unusual. Happens all the time. I think we would be happy to have both the investment and the jobs.

That's true. And the Arab countries have always helped to finance U.S. mosques, including the U.S. mosques that some of the 9/11 hijackers attended.

However, since 9/11, and in light of the terrorist incidents and foiled terrorist plans that followed that event, there is considerably more suspicion about the foreign influences that may operate in mosques. This is really understandable and it represents neither general anti-Muslim sentiment, nor a belief that all Muslims are radicals with terrorist agendas. It is simply a security concern.

We really don't know who will wind up financing and controlling that lower Manhattan center/mosque, if it is ever built, and which brand or sect of Islam will be promoted there. The public cannot control any of those things, but that doesn't mean people might not worry about that.

But, the huge Islamic Cultural Center of NY Mosque (ICCNY) on 96th street and 3rd avenue is still operating without any protests going on. That center was founded by Feisal Abdul Rauf's father, and Feisal Abdul Rauf is still on their board of trustees. But, immediately after 9/11, the ICCNY was also embroiled in controversy because of remarks made by two of their Imans, Sheik Muhammad Gemeaha, and Omar Saleem Abu-Namous . One blamed the Jews for the 9/11 attack, and the other said he wasn't sure that Muslims were behind the attacks.

Quote:

Two imams (spiritual leaders) of the Islamic Cultural Center have made controversial statements.

The first, Sheik Muhammad Gemeaha, said in an interview that "only the Jews" were capable of the September 11 attacks and "if it became known to the American people, they would have done to Jews what Hitler did." He also stated that as "Allah described it," Jews "disseminate corruption in the land" and are responsible for the spread of "heresy, homosexuality, alcoholism, and drugs."

The interview took place on October 4, 2001, a week after Gemeaha suddenly resigned as imam at the Islamic Center and returned to his home in Egypt.

In further controversial statements, Gemeaha's replacement, Omar Saleem Abu-Namous condemned the September 11 attacks, but said there wasn't "conclusive evidence" that Muslims were responsible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Cultural_Center_of_New_York

Having Muslim leaders in mosques, who don't want to even acknowledge who was behind the attacks on 9/11, or who try to blame it on another group, like the Jews, in a highly bigoted manner, certainly doesn't help to improve relations between Muslims and the rest of the American public. Who would want to hear that such sentiments were coming from a pulpit located near Ground Zero? And Feisal Abdul Rauf did say that the U.S. was an "accessory" to the crimes of 9/11. So people are legitimately concerned about issues like that, and what sorts of anti-American things might be preached in mosques. But, again, while these are general security issues, they cannot prevent the building of mosques.

1 Reply

Poll: NY voters opposed to mosque near ground zero

By MICHAEL GORMLEY, Associated Press Writer
Wed Aug 18, 10:46 am ET

ALBANY, N.Y. – A majority of New Yorkers remain opposed to a mosque proposed as part of a planned Islamic cultural center near ground zero, and the issue will be a factor for many voters this fall, according to a statewide poll released Wednesday.

The Siena College poll showed 63 percent of New York voters surveyed oppose the project, with 27 percent supporting it. That compares with 64 percent opposed and 28 percent in favor two weeks earlier, results that are within the polls' sampling margins.

Democrats nationwide, including President Barack Obama, have defended the proposal as protected by the Constitution's guarantee of religious freedom. Many Republicans have called it an affront to the memory of those killed in the Sept. 11 attacks.

A CNN/Opinion Research poll released last week found that nearly 70 percent of Americans opposed the mosque plan, while 29 percent approved.
In a new question, the latest poll found that many New Yorkers believe the project is protected by the Constitution, even if they oppose the plan.
Nearly two-thirds of voters, 64 percent, say the developers have a constitutional right to build the mosque. Twenty-eight percent say they do not.

Among those who oppose building the mosque, about half agree that developers have the constitutional right to build it. Twenty-eight percent of mosque opponents say they do not have that right.

Nearly a quarter of voters questioned said the issue will have a major effect on which candidate for governor they support. Thirty-seven percent say it will have some effect, while about 40 percent of voters say it won't matter.
The poll showed Republican Carl Paladino, who has taken the hardest line against the project among the candidates, is continuing to gain on Rick Lazio heading into the GOP primary and also gaining on Democrat Andrew Cuomo. Still, Cuomo continues to have twice the support of either Lazio or Paladino.
Of those who see the issue as a major factor in their vote, almost all — 92 percent — oppose building the mosque near ground zero. Cuomo has only a narrow lead over Lazio among those voters.

Cuomo has defended the project, saying it is protected by the Constitution. Lazio wants an investigation into who will fund the $100 million project. Paladino said it is akin to a Japanese war memorial at Pearl Harbor, the site of the 1941 attack that brought the United States into World War II.
As the Sept. 14 Republican primary draws near, Lazio's lead over Paladino, who has tea party activists among his supporters, is shrinking among Republicans. The lead is down to 13 points at 43 percent versus Paladino's 30 percent, with 27 percent undecided. That compares with Lazio's 20-point lead over Paladino in July, although the margin of error is greater when only Republicans were questioned, reflecting the smaller sample.
The Siena telephone poll questioned 788 registered voters Aug. 9 through Monday. It has a margin of error of 3.5 percentage points.

0 Replies

At this point I don't care if the "mosque is built near "ground zero".
I'm more concerned about the misconception that jihadists are a threat to our safety.

In the last decade the support in Muslim countries for suicide bombings has fallen from one third to approx 8%.

The relative stabilization of Iraq and the successful campaign to assassinate Al Qaeda hierarchy has decimated the organization.

Obama and the military's campaign in Afghanistan has checked the rise of the Taliban, for now.

Quote:

A Gallup poll taken in June found that Americans still believe terrorism is a bigger threat to the future well-being of the country than health care costs, unemployment and illegal immigration.

We need to stop obsessing over the terrorist threat and start working on some hard answers for our future well-being.

3 Replies

@panzade,

Yes, Panz.

0 Replies

@firefly,

Quote:

Having Muslim leaders in mosques, who don't want to even acknowledge who was behind the attacks on 9/11, or who try to blame it on another group, like the Jews, in a highly bigoted manner, certainly doesn't help to improve relations between Muslims and the rest of the American public.

Having Americans and American leaders, who don't want to even acknowledge who was behind the attacks on numerous countries around the world, or who try to blame it on other groups, like the Russians, in a highly bigoted manner, certainly doesn't help to improve relations between Americans and the rest of the world.

0 Replies

@panzade,

Quote:

We need to stop obsessing over the terrorist threat and start working on some hard answers for our future well-being.

It is hard to do that given the events of just the past few months. There was the radical Muslim psychiatrist who massacred people at Fort Hood in November, the would-be underwear bomber on the plane in December, and the Times Square car bomber in May of this year.

Then there was the man arrested in September 2009 for planning to use weapons of mass destruction
http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/people/z/najibullah_zazi/index.html

And that man's arrest led to another arrest and this recent news story

Quote:

Man charged in NYC subway plot pleads not guilty
Friday, August 6, 2010
BY TOM HAYS
The Record
Associated Press

NEW YORK — A man charged in an al-Qaida-sponsored plot to attack the New York City subway system pleaded not guilty Friday, keeping the case on track for a trial that would feature testimony from turncoat terrorists about the network's inner-workings.

No trial date has been set for Adis Medunjanin, who entered the plea during a brief appearance in federal court in Brooklyn. There's no indication that a plea deal is in the works, and his defense team — now numbering four lawyers — has vowed to fight the charges.

"No one should conclude anything about what really happened until there's a trial," lead attorney Robert Gottlieb said Friday outside court.

Medunjanin, 26, had previously pleaded not guilty to charges accusing him of seeking to join two former high school classmates from Queens, Najibullah Zazi and Zarein Ahmedzay, in what prosecutors called three "coordinated suicide bombing attacks" on Manhattan subway lines. Zazi, a former Denver airport shuttle driver, and Ahmedzay have both admitted in guilty pleas that they wanted to avenge U.S. aggression in the Arab world by becoming martyrs.

A revised indictment against Medunjanin that was unsealed last year broadened the conspiracy to include high-ranking al-Qaida operative Adman Shukrijumah, and increased the potential for more evidence to emerge about how the terror network cultivates homegrown terrorism in the United States and elsewhere.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/080610_Man_charged_in_NYC_subway_plot_pleads_not_guilty.html

So, it is kind of hard to forget this stuff. It pops up constantly in the news.

We need to work on both our national foreign policy, and our homeland security. Both are real concerns. And the Republicans love to play the "terrorist card" before election day, and they are doing it this year by jumping on the Ground Zero mosque bandwagon.

Obama has tried not to use the term "war on terrorism" and he's been attacked for that.

3 Replies

@panzade,

Quote:

In the last decade the support in Muslim countries for suicide bombings has fallen from one third to approx 8%.

That is seriously myopic. The percentage of lunatics amongst slammites is irrelevant. THE RELIGION ITSELF demands barbarous conduct, starting with its pedophile/bandit-chief founder and the book the religion is based on and with 1,000,000,000+ devotees in the world, there will never be a serious shortage of people ready to take the religion seriously.

Here's the difference: There is no law of physics which prevents a Christian, a Jew, or Hindu from being an asshole or a lunatic; nonetheless a follower of any religion other than I-slam has to be in significant violation of the basic tenets of his or her religion to be an asshole or a criminal. That proposition is reversed for muslims; a slammite has to be in violation of the tenets of I-slam in order to be a decent person.

You simply cannnot treat I-slam as if it were just another religion, it isn't ]just another religion.

0 Replies

@firefly,

Odd, we've had white Christians participate in several incidents in the last year as well - a guy flying a plane into the building in Austin, a dude who was on his way to go shoot up a charity (that Glenn Beck told him was the devil) here in Oakland, the recent arrests in the midwest of radical Christian anarchists.

Where are you and others going on and on about the threat that is presented by White Christians to the people of this nation? Why aren't you raising flags about that stuff?

I think that people are 'concerned' in large part because they want to be, based on latent fears and prejudices.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@firefly,

firefly, And Muslims look at the radical American military that has used firebombs to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims. Don't they count?

0 Replies

@firefly,

Quote:

We need to work on both our national foreign policy, and our homeland security. Both are real concerns.

we have a national foreign policy "What's good for the pentagon is good for america" as far as homeland security goes there is no statistically relevant terrorist threat and never has been. The economy is the only issue of note facing america. So lets all debate the placement of a mosque in manhattan.

1 Reply

@dyslexia,

Quote:

as far as homeland security goes there is no statistically relevant terrorist threat and never has been

I'm not sure the mayor of NYC agrees with you about that. The threats in NYC are ongoing.

Do you need another 9/11 to demonstrate the threat?

And we are still involved in Afghanistan....

3 Replies

@firefly,

Quote:

I'm not sure the mayor of NYC agrees with you about that. The threats in NYC are ongoing.

But not statistically relevant. Given the size of our population, even living in NYC, the odds of being killed in a terrorist attack are right up there with getting hit by lightning.

Yet you and others seem to be pretty damn worried about it. I think this is because you have let the terrorists win, in your head.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@firefly,

firefly, You are a conservative who uses fear and ignores logic. As far as threats are concerned, what makes you think it's limited to NYC?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

I think you misjudge firefly, c.i.

1 Reply

@firefly,

I'm guessing you don't have a clue what

Quote:

statistically relevant

means, there is greater risk of falling in your bathroom incurring serious injury than there is from terrorism.

0 Replies

@ossobuco,

firefly wrote:

Quote:

I'm not sure the mayor of NYC agrees with you about that. The threats in NYC are ongoing.

Just because the mayor of NYC may not agree, that doesn't make it true.

Quote:

Do you need another 9/11 to demonstrate the threat?

Why limit the threat to NYC when it concerns al Qaida or the Taliban?

Quote:

And we are still involved in Afghanistan....

And this means?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Yes, I read that.

Did you read the whole thread, C.I. ? or even all of Firefly's posts? Try it. She modified her position as she read/learned more. I disagree with the relevance of her points, but I'm not labeling her for having those points be a concern to her.

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

I can't honestly admit I read all the posts on this thread, but my response usually doesn't look back at what people wrote before their last post. It's probably a failure of mine, but I don't rationalize one post from another he/she may have written.

1 Reply

Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know