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Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

 
 
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 07:34 pm
This piece is from another Muslim, Abdul Rahman Al-Rashid, the general manager of Al -Arabiya television, who does not feel that building this mosque near Ground Zero is a good idea. He points out that Muslims (other than the three people behind this project) are not arguing for it to be built there, it does not replace an existing mosque, and its particular location, near Ground Zero will be turned into "an arena for promoters of hatred, and a symbol of those who committed the crime." He is clearly suggesting that the backers should pull the plug on this project. This is a portion of his article...

Quote:

House of Worship or a Symbol of Destruction?
16/08/2010
By Abdul Rahman Al-Rashid


The fact is that building a mosque next to the site of the World Trade Center Twin Towers, which were destroyed during the 11 September attacks, is a strange story. This is because the mosque is not an issue for Muslims, and they have not heard of it until the shouting became loud between the supporters and the objectors, which is mostly an argument between non-Muslim US citizens!...

I cannot imagine that Muslims want a mosque on this particular site, because it will be turned into an arena for promoters of hatred, and a symbol of those who committed the crime. At the same time, there are no practicing Muslims in the district who need a place of worship, because it is indeed a commercial district. Is there a side that is committed to this mosque? The fact is that in the news reports there are names linked to this project that costs 100 million dollars!

The sides enthusiastic for building the mosque might be building companies, architect houses, or politicized groups that want suitable investments?! I do not know whether the building applicant wants a mosque whose aim is reconciliation, or he is an investor who wants quick profits. This is because the idea of the mosque specifically next to the destruction is not at all a clever deed. The last thing Muslims want today is to build just a religious center out of defiance to the others, or a symbolic mosque that people visit as a museum next to a cemetery.

What the US citizens do not understand is that the battle against the 11 September terrorists is a Muslim battle, and not theirs, and this battle still is ablaze in more than 20 Muslim countries. Some Muslims will consider that building a mosque on this site immortalizes and commemorates what was done by the terrorists who committed their crime in the name of Islam. I do not think that the majority of Muslims want to build a symbol or a worship place that tomorrow might become a place about which the terrorists and their Muslim followers boast, and which will become a shrine for Islam haters whose aim is to turn the public opinion against Islam. This is what has started to happen now; they claim that there is a mosque being built over the corpses of 3,000 killed US citizens, who were buried alive by people chanting God is great, which is the same call that will be heard from the mosque.

It is the wrong battle, because originally there was no mosque in order to rebuild it, and there are no practicing Muslims who want a place in which to worship.

Abdul Rahman Al-Rashed
the general manager of Al -Arabiya television. Mr. Al Rashed is also the former editor-in-chief of Asharq Al- Awsat, and the leading Arabic weekly magazine, Al Majalla. He is also a senior Columnist in the daily newspapers of Al Madina and Al Bilad. He is a US post-graduate degree in mass communications. He has been a guest on many TV current affairs programs. He is currently based in Dubai.
http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=2&id=21980


cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 07:48 pm
@firefly,
I'm not sure why one person's opinion can outweigh "what is right." As with any controversy, you will always find somebody that may agree with the "opposition."

Al-Rashid has it wrong on two points: 1) it's not on ground zero, and 2) it's not a mosque. So what value does his opinion have?
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 08:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
it's not a mosque


Yes, it is. The proposed structure is to include a mosque. That is why they can apply for non-profit, tax exempt status.

Quote:
So what value does his opinion have?


He is looking at it from the perspective of a Muslim, and that does make a difference. And he rightly points out that the debate that is going on in this country, over the building of this mosque, is occurring between two groups of non-Muslims.

Have you heard many Muslims weighing in on this issue? Other than the three backers of this project, how do you know that any other Muslims really want this mosque/center built, or would even intend to use it?



cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 08:04 pm
@firefly,
It doesn't matter how many Muslims approve or disapprove of this site; it matters that some Muslims want to build on this site, and there is no legal or moral issue that can stop them.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 08:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
They need to change their website, then, because under 'Facilities', it clearly lists 'a mosque'. Although, if you've been following the official Twitter page for Park51, I can see how you'd be confused. The spokesman there has said several times that "it is not a mosque", then directs people to their official website where the mosque is listed.

Apparently, he's just been replaced -- not for that reason, but rather, I would guess, for some offensive remarks he made yesterday in reference to Jewish people.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 08:13 pm
@panzade,
Now there's this -


Sam Stein

'Ground Zero Mosque' Imam Helped FBI With Counterterrorism Efforts
First Posted: 08-17-10 02:47 PM | Updated: 08-17-10 04:24 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/17/ground-zero-imam-helped-f_n_685071.html
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 08:13 pm
They say this thing is sinking the demoKKKrat party. Even Gallup has pubbies up five in a generic ballot, which has never happened before.

That and the Blagojevich trial... Can you believe guilty on one count of lying and hung on all 23 other counts?? I mean, in plain English, that means Blago has Obunga by the balls somehow or other.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 08:13 pm
@Irishk,
From Matt Sledge:
Quote:

Your request is being processed...

Matt Sledge
Matt Sledge
Posted: July 28, 2010 10:50 AM


The "Ground Zero Mosque" that we have been and will be hearing so much about is not exactly a mosque, nor is it at Ground Zero. Here's why: you can't see Ground Zero -- the former site of the World Trade Center -- from the future site of the Cordoba House.


From 45 Park Place, the former Burlington Coat Factory building that will make way for the Cordoba House, it's two blocks, around a corner, to get to the WTC site. Park Place doesn't lie between the construction site and any mass transit stations, so you would need to go out of your way to have it offend you.

If you look up the walking directions you'll notice that it takes a couple of minutes to walk the distance (approximately a tenth of a mile) between the two spots. Pretty much two minutes exactly when I took the trip with a shaky video camera. Here's the clip, first sped up to 4X speed then slowed down to 1X:


And this:
Quote:
New Yorkers Reveal Best of American Spirit
Taylor Marsh — ... The city’s Landmarks Preservation Commission voted 9 to 0 against granting historic protection to the building at 45-47 Park Place in Lower Manhattan, where the $100 million center would be built. That decision clears the way for the construction of Park51, a tower of as many as 15 stories that will house a mosque, a 500-seat auditorium, and a pool. Its leaders say it will be modeled on the Y.M.C.A. and Jewish Community Center in Manhattan. – Mosque Near Ground Zero Clears Key Hurdle ...
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 08:24 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Park51 has been trying to stress the fact that it's a cultural center, so that may be why your source is saying that it "is not exactly a mosque", do you think? In other words, he could be saying, "well yes it is a mosque, but more than that it is a cultural center which is being modeled on a typical YMCA with lots of other cool things to interest not only Muslims, but anyone who has similar interests to what they'll be offering.

Per their website, the mosque will be run separately, but all will be welcome.
DrewDad
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 08:40 pm
I can't believe ya'll are still talking about this.

The only reason people don't like this project is because they've conflated "Muslim" and "terrorist".

Muslims didn't crash planes into the WTC, terrorrists did. Criminals who happened to profess an Islamic faith. They also happened to be adult males. So what.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 09:18 pm
@DrewDad,
Bigotry never dies, it simply puts on new clothes.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 09:18 pm
@DrewDad,
I hear they were all virgins too. Better not promote any sort of chastity near ground zero either.

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 09:48 pm
I am not going to read this thread, just want to pop in and say that this event tells us that Obama did not learn a damn thing with the Crowley/Gates affair. The man is incapable of keeping his mouth shut about things that are none of his business, and when he is on the wrong side of the issue to boot. I can't believe that I ever thought that he was a master at politics like Clinton (Bill of course)
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 09:50 pm
@Irishk,
There have been several contradicting reports on it, but a mosque is a mosque. Trying to call it something else is juvenile and uncalled for.

However, it's my understanding that there are several locations close by that Muslims use for prayers. I wonder how that differs from having a mosque?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 10:12 pm

I guess that u 've seen that the Governor of NY
is endeavoring to get the Moslems to build it elsewhere.
Thay interviewed a few Moslems on-site, who expressed
willingness to go elsewhere, as long as thay have somewhere new.
Thay don 't seem to care whether its there or not.

It will be nice if that proves to be the case and thay evacuate.





David
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 10:13 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
And some people don't want any mosques in NYC or in the US.

What a bunch of dorks.
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 10:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
However, it's my understanding that there are several locations close by that Muslims use for prayers. I wonder how that differs from having a mosque?


There are other mosques in the area of the WTC site. One of them, the Masjid Manhattan Mosque, has been in that location for decades, with no complaints from anyone. That mosque lost its lease in 2008 and has been temporarily operating in the basement of a building in facilities that are totally inadequate for its congregation. They have been raising funds to find or build a new facility for their mosque, in that same area, also without any complaints or protests from anyone. They have no affiliation with this new proposed mosque/cultural center by the Cordoba Initiative, and they say that on their Web site. However, it is possible that the flap over this "Ground Zero mosque" will also now jeopardize the Masjid Manhattan Mosque's attempts to find a new home.

What the developers of this Cordoba project are doing is indirectly harming other Muslim groups in the area, like Masjid Manhattan. The difference with the Cordoba Initiative is that it is a somewhat grandiose $100 million+ project, proposed by people with no apparent funds to build it, and it will, therefore, require financing by foreign Arab governments (like Saudi Arabia) to both construct and operate it. That sets it apart from the other mosques in the immediate area which operate considerably more modestly and without controversy. Even in NYC, it does not cost $100 million+ to build a mosque, or even a mosque/cultural center, so these are rather elaborate plans. And who, besides foreign Arab governments, wants to put over $100 million+ into a non profit Muslim enterprise in NYC?

The Masjid Manhattan Mosque is trying to stay out of this whole controversy. They want to find a new home for their followers without stepping into additional problems.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 10:33 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Quote:
What the developers of this Cordoba project are doing is indirectly harming other Muslim groups in the area, like Masjid Manhattan.


Therein lies the bigotry and insensitivity to the whole Muslim population of NYC.
What has one got to do with other mosques? Please explain this to me, because I feel I'm missing something important here.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 11:37 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:

Therein lies the bigotry and insensitivity to the whole Muslim population of NYC.
What has one got to do with other mosques? Please explain this to me, because I feel I'm missing something important here.


There is no widespread bigotry or insensitivity to the Muslim population of NYC that is coming from the people of NYC. This current controversy has been agitated by anti-Islamic hate groups outside NYC who are aligned with the Tea Party movement. It has next to nothing to do with the sensitivities of the 9/11 families. The various 9/11 families organizations (and there are many of them) have not spoken out against the building of this mosque.

This whole NYC issue has been manufactured by anti-Islamic groups like the American Freedom Defense Initiative and SIOA (Stop Islamization Of America), led by people like Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer who are also connected to the Tea Party movement.
Check out Geller and Spencer here: http://mediamatters.org/blog/201002230046

They have been protesting the building of all U.S. mosques across the country (including two other mosques in NYC, one in Staten Island and one in Brooklyn). The "Ground Zero" angle in NYC, the emotional appeal of "the victims' families", and the fact that the Cordoba project is a grandiose, expensive enterprise, has helped them attract nationwide media attention and a nationwide following. They are organizing cross country caravans to show up at Ground Zero on 9/11 this year to protest the building of this new mosque/cultural center.

This is also the Tea Party flexing its muscles, and they have gotten the Republicans to jump on board and make opposition to this mosque a campaign issue, and now some Democrats are joining them. But this has always been a political issue for these people, like Geller and Spencer, who are vehemently anti-Muslim. This NYC mosque controversy is just another vehicle for them, and the media has helped make it a high profile vehicle and a political football. They have waged a very successful PR campaign against the building of this mosque.

There hasn't been widespread opposition, by NYers to mosques in NYC. There is a huge Islamic mosque and cultural center--the Islamic Cultural Center of NY (ICCNY)--on 96th street and 3rd avenue in Manhattan. It takes up more than a half a city block, with a striking, distinctive domed mosque appearance. It has been operating there for 15 years. It was funded by the governments of Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, and Libya, but primarily by Kuwait (which still pays most of its $250,000 annual operating budget).

Estimates for the number of Muslims in the city range between 600,000 and 800,000. There are 19 Islamic places of worship in the borough of Manhattan alone.

One member of the Masjid Manhattan Mosque, located near the WTC, said:

“All of our neighbors, who are non-Muslims, they like us,” Uddin said, recalling an episode in 2001, after the attacks of September 11, when a small group gathered outside the mosque and were cursing those who entered. Local community members shouted back, protecting the mosque and its worshippers. “They defend the mosque if it is ever in trouble,” Uddin said. “We don’t have this problem. Money is our problem.".
http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080422/ART/154370685/1111/ART

There really is no widespread opposition to mosques, or Muslims, in NYC. Most of the opposition has come from outsiders. But those outsiders have been somewhat successful in playing on NYers fears of terrorists and raising heightened suspicions. They are very good at spreading propoganda--and fear.


failures art
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 11:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

There have been several contradicting reports on it, but a mosque is a mosque. Trying to call it something else is juvenile and uncalled for.

However, it's my understanding that there are several locations close by that Muslims use for prayers. I wonder how that differs from having a mosque?

I'm waging a guess here but perhaps where we are used to the distinction between a chapel (like in a hospital, or airport) and a church (like a building), the word mosque might cover both concepts in Islam?

A
R
T
 

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