Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

Because I getting tired of answering the same questions and going round in circles, I'm not stupid, give me some credit guys.

"The majority" doesn't get to decide it's a crime. Our nation is based on the rule of law, not on the rule of the mob.

This is yet to be demonstrated.

There is nothing wrong with using the court system to try to block something, or to try to push something through. That is part of our legal system and our democratic process.

In this case, it is not the citizens of NY who are actually doing anything to block the building of the center/mosque, apart from expressing their opinions.

All of the legal blocking and legal maneuvering is coming from an organized group of anti-Islamic bigots, the Freedom Defensive Initiative, who are operating on a nationwide basis, using similar tactics across the country.

Take a look at the Freedom Defense Initiative Web site. Read down through that main page and look at their political agenda to try to control upcoming election outcomes. This is about more than just bigotry, although they would like to rid America of Muslims.

http://freedomdefense.typepad.com/

One of the leaders of the Freedom Defense Initiative is Pamela Geller. Check out her Web site, Atlas Shrugs--her political agenda is readily apparent.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/

The FDI is also connected with SIOA--Stop Islamization Of America.
http://sioaonline.com/

They are also aligned with the Tea Party movement.

The Freedom Defense Initiative tried to have the Burlington Coat Factory building (on the site the new center/mosque would be built) declared a historic landmark based on the fact it was damaged by debris from one of the planes on 9/11. They claimed it was a "war memorial", like the battlefield at Gettysburg. The NYC Landmarks Commission wisely reflected this nonsense. So, the FDI is now appealing this decision. They will not win this one, their claim is absurd.

The FDI also used the courts to help win their case to run inflammatory ads in the NYC bus and subway transit system. These ads visually linked the proposed mosque directly to the attack on the WTC.



The Metropolitan Transit Authority originally rejected the above ad as being too inflammatory, and said they would allow it only if some modifications were made. The Freedom Defense Initiative/SIOA, led by Pamela Geller, threatened to take this to court, alleging violation of their First Amendment rights to freedom of speech and expression. The MTA usually loses such suits, so they just caved in and accepted the ad in it's original form. As of this Monday, the ad will appear on 20 NYC buses (at a cost of $10,000), and more bus and subway exposure may follow.

So, all of this organized and orchestrated protest is part of a nationwide anti-Islamic movement that is doing similar things all across the country. They just latched onto this NYC mosque issue, and they are the ones generating most of the opposition, and they are the ones who turned this into a "Ground Zero" and flag waving issue.

The constitution is wonderful. It protects the rights of Muslims to build mosques, and it protects the rights of these bigots to use their hate speech and their tactics.

All the politicians, and otherwise decent organizations and people, who have jumped on this opposition bandwagon, should take a good look at the people, like Geller and the FDI, and SIOA, who are spearheading the opposition, and see who they are getting into bed with. This is ugly stuff.

There already are at least 2 mosques in the immediate vicinity of the WTC site, and they have both been there for a long time without complaints from anyone. It's a moot point whether another mosque is even needed in the area. The FDI is making noise about this new proposal because they want no more mosques built, anywhere in the U.S., and the "ground zero" angle has helped them grab national media attention and headlines, and sucker in lots of followers. They are planning a massive demonstration on 9/11 at the WTC site.

UnAmerican, eh, Kicky? Bigotry is as American as apple pie.

Ooh you hit below the belt, make you feel smart? I don't have the time to play your games so excuse me while I don't talk to you anymore because your hey so smart. Insults without backing your mouth up is a sign of someone struggling to gasp the argument, you have only shown arrogance which I hate because it tries to destroy, you rather destroy rather create, what a wonderful whole human you must be, get off and grow a pair.

Whatever fgs you can see the point I was making unless you're blind as well as stupid. Why you gotta pick pick all the time, huh boys?

Did you say "with the justice system'? Since it wasn't included what was I to do? assume you meant to include it? That would be foolish.

Frankly Caroline. We can only go by what you say. And what you say is all over the place. You are the one going in circles. First you say it is a good compromise to build 2 blocks away and then you turn around and say they should be sensitive to those killed and not build right next to the WTC site.

You sound confused, may I suggest you take time to read my posts again, frankly I can't help you, you are losing yourselves, I'm not confused my argument is very clear, it's only you who are misunderstanding and resort to frankly immature tactics, my argument is clear, do you understand, frankly I don't have the time to play your games, I have better things to do obviously, not one of you has presented a half decent argument against mine, frankly boys I'm disappointed I thought your were smarter than that, well no I didn't actually. Toodles!

as a wise man once said

can't we all just cut our lawns


hmm, maybe i've had too many blows to the head, that doesn't sound quite righ

Just to clarify








This is what people are refering to when they say you agreed they should be able to build. They are not on the WTC site on land they already own (or more accurately have options on.)

When in a hole stop digging. You mentioned you're exhausted and making mistakes due to staying up all night - perhaps after you get some rest and then re-read your posts you'll see why not one of a dozen posters agreed with you. A rare unanimity on this forum

After I proposed a compromise -







And yet a few posts later
you appear to be objecting to the location again




Not only have I read your posts again Caroline. I put them in order so others can read them.
You agreed to a compromise and said anyone that objected wasn't worth talking to. Then you turn around and appear to go back on the compromise and claim you don't have to compromise at all.

So is bragging without backing your mouth up.

Right, sorry. I usually don't like doing that either.

I believe this point has been made before, but I think there is room to see it again

This is a clip from this week's New Yorker 'The Talk of the Town' commentary, Zero Grounds, by Hendrik Hertzberg
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2010/08/16/100816taco_talk_hertzberg

Clip -
Where the “Ground Zero mosque” is concerned, opposition is roughly proportional to distance, even in New York. According to a recent poll, Manhattanites are mostly for it, Staten Islanders mostly against. Community Board No. 1 endorsed it, twenty-nine to one. That’s the council that represents a corner of Manhattan that includes both Park51 and the 9/11 site—and us, too, in the not too distant future. The New Yorker is set to move from 4 Times Square to 1 World Trade Center, once it gets built. Opinion here is divided, depending on whether one’s subway ride will be longer or shorter. No one has a problem with Park51.

Last Tuesday, after the city’s Landmarks Preservation Commission, in a unanimous vote, gave Park51 a green light, Mayor Michael Bloomberg celebrated the occasion with a speech that, in its gruff eloquence, will be remembered as a high point in his distinguished tenure. “We may not always agree with every one of our neighbors,” he said.

That’s life. And it’s part of living in such a diverse and dense city. But we also recognize that part of being a New Yorker is living with your neighbors in mutual respect and tolerance. It was exactly that spirit of openness and acceptance that was attacked on 9/11.


That should have been the end of it, but it isn’t. The midterm elections loom. Locally, partisanship—Republican partisanship, to be specific—trumps propinquity. The two leading Republican candidates for governor of New York have made the “Ground Zero mosque” an issue, urged on by Rudy Giuliani, the ex-mayor, and by George Pataki, the ex-governor. Nationally, opposition to Park51 is rapidly becoming a matter of Republican discipline and conservative orthodoxy. By the end of last week, John McCain had joined his former running mate’s chorus. (“Obviously my opinion is that I’m opposed to it.”)

In a famous letter—the one that holds that the United States “gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens”—George Washington offered a benediction:

May the children of the stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants, while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid.

Lower Manhattan is a little short on vines and fig trees nowadays, though there are some excellent wine bars. Washington’s point remains. His letter was addressed to the Jews of Newport, Rhode Island. But, as he knew, Muslims are Abraham’s children, too. By the McCain standard, George Washington was a three-time loser: as President, he lived in New York City; the nation’s capital bears his name; and, even by the standards of his time, he was an élitist. Nevertheless: he was right. ♦

end/clip

i think what we're all trying to say is,that this mosque, should be built anywhere they want to build it




providing it's somewhere else

wait what

With one minor alteration. . . .

i think what we're all trying to say is,that this mosque, may be built anywhere they want to build it

If thay put it 2 blox from the WTC,
then we know that thay mean to rub our American faces in it, while thay laff at us, in their victory.
Its their way to gloat.

Yes, and that is exactly why I changed 'should' to 'may'. Not every thing legal and possible should be done.