Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

It appears that you don't think he has the money or a record of success to pull off this venture. If that is the case, why are you screaming so long and loud about the fact that a mosque may be built? Your usual logic?

The hell, he 's not.



His RIGHTS are NOT the issue; it is RECOGNIZING the gloating insolence,
instead of acting as if we are too stupid to know it,
so that the Moslems will laff at us for THAT in addition.

We cannot stop him from doing it, but we CAN and we shoud TAKE OFFENSE,
since that is what is intended against us.

We have a Constitutional right to take offense.

Grow up, for Christ's sake, MM. The ff's, big ******* deal, they are dead and gone, long gone.

...but, but, but, we don't like Muslims? They're, like, different from us, and stuff? And they, like, have to hit their heads on the ground when they pray? And they all want to kill us and stuff? They, like, have all these funny rules about what they eat?

my radio guru Ron Bennington does it again, in talking about the 9th anniversary of 9/11

"one thing I can take comfort in, with all the controversy surrounding the mosque and the redneck preacher in Florida, is the view i see everyday of the freedom tower, rising above the skyline, a perfect tribute to help alleviate the suffering and horror of that day............oh wait, that's right, I must be tripping"

firefly (Post 4347560)
Quote:

Did you read my previous three posts? I explained a very effective, systematic propaganda campaign, by Geller and Spencer, to convince the public that there was something offensive about this mosque being built at that location and something very suspect about the people who wanted to build it.

Hawkeye



So, you don't think it matters how, and why, the opposition to the mosque "suddenly" developed? Or how the opposition became so well organized? Or why most of those opposing it, including you, all parrot the same few talking points disseminated by Stop Islamization Of America--all of which are based on distortions of truth and reality. And you aren't even aware, or apparently don't care, that these distorted perceptions and beliefs you now hold were deliberately crafted by Geller and Spencer (aka SIOA ), and implanted in your mind by this anti-Muslim, anti-government, anti-Obama, right wing hate group with the help of media outlets like Fox News?

No, what's actually going on with the mosque/center controversy, the truth of the hate filled situation, and how the opposition was manufactured and marketed, doesn't matter to you at all.

Instead, you rather foolishly accept the erroneous notion that widespread opposition to this project was some sort of "given", or inevitability, from the outset, and you fixate on what the backers of the mosque project should now do in response to this totally manufactured controversy. And then you compound the deficiencies in your understanding by simplistically assuming that the mosque backers next move should be governed mainly by whether or not they want "to make friends"--i.e. whether they should buckle under to the public pressure which has been successfully generated by the anti-Muslim hate group SIOA, and either abandon or move their project, in order to satisfy an assortment of bigots, bullies, flag waving malcontents, and an essentially duped unthinking public.

Well, why should the mosque backers want to appease people who are essentially spewing hate and intolerance at them? To "make friends"? Does that make sense to you, Hawkeye? Are you that out of touch with reality? Do you think the people most staunchly opposed to the mosque project really want to be "friends" with these Muslim Americans? About as much as a lynch mob wants to "be friends" with the guy they are pursuing with a noose.

And the way to confront bigotry, intolerance, and people's irrational fears of you, is not to take tail and run, it is to firmly stand your ground, particularly when you have done absolutely nothing to create the toxic climate of religious prejudice that saturates this controversy, and you have every lawful and moral right to stand your ground. Only by standing your ground, is there any hope of eventually showing your adversaries just how wrong they have been in their perceptions of you. Only by standing your ground, can you show them there is nothing to fear.

Since all of your other arguments have now fizzled out, Hawkeye, you now lamely resort to personally attacking Iman Rauf with a variety of misinformed and inaccurate assumptions. The man is a "loner"? Really, where did you dig that one up? He has been the Iman of a lower Manhattan mosque for decades, he has started several organizations, he is highly regarded and respected in the NYC interfaith community, and he has worked as a Middle Eastern emissary for the U.S. State Department under both the Bush and Obama administrations. Doesn't sound like "a loner" to me.

Then you very ignorantly state


Well, for starters, Iman Rauf's father was the man who created the huge Islamic Cultural Center of NY on 96th street and 3rd avenue--a $75 million project to build, and a thriving enterprise and showplace, that successfully operates with a $200,000 annual budget. And Iman Rauf has always been on the board of trustees of that facility. I think he has a great deal of experience in how to build, finance, and run, Muslim multi-million dollar institutions in NYC. Demeaning him with out and out falsehoods, such as that his accomplishments are limited to his being "a minor slum lord....in New Jersey " is nothing more than unwarranted, malicious, character assassination on your part, Hawkeye.

When it comes right down to it, you make no compelling argument for why Iman Rauf should move his project, whether it's to appease anti-Muslim hate groups like Stop Islamization Of American, or intolerant lunatic religious extremists who want to burn Korans, or a well meaning, but misguided, public who have been systematically brainwashed by SIOA to believe that this project is an affront or offense to the 9/11 families, and the memory of the victims, because of some non-existent and manufactured connection to the radical extremist group that attacked us.

You have no case, Hawkeye. You are too uninformed and misinformed to really understand this situation, and you are too narrow minded to conceptualize the larger picture of what is involved and what is at stake.

The forces of darkness, and bigotry, and intolerance that oppose this mosque project cannot be allowed to triumph this time. They are the real threat to our democracy and not anything having to do with Islam or Iman Rauf. That lunatic Christian bigot who wants to burn Korans is as much of a religious exremist and as big a threat to our national security as any radical Muslim terrorist group. The hatred and suspicion and anger in our country, which scapegoats innocent Muslim Americans, is the real enemy that threatens to rip the fabric of our democracy apart. It is also a contributory threat to our national security and the success of our endeavors in the Middle East.

Iman Rauf should build his mosque/center in lower Manhattan, and the Muslim American community should be allowed to enjoy and use it, and share it, as they see fit. Let him prove there is no threat, there is no offense, there is no ill will of any sort involved with his enterprise. That will be the only way to avoid another commotion, and another controversy, and another lynch mob, the next time someone else wants to build a mosque.

And, when the WTC site is finally rebuilt, and those towering buildings again become part of the NYC skyline, no one will even notice the relatively tiny building on Park Place where some Muslim Americans quietly and peacefully gather for recreation and worship.

The problem is that this debate isn't about facts. It's about emotion.

It's the same reason why facts about Iraq didn't stop the invasion.

People have conflated two concepts in their minds (Saddam Hussein = evil, terrorists = evil, therefore Saddam Hussein = terrorists).

No amount of explication will dislodge those beliefs, because the beliefs come first, and the rationalizations come second.

(Here, it's terrorist = evil, terrorist = Muslim, therefore Muslim = evil)

DD, You must've done pretty well in math. LOL

It's a trick that works especially well on little children and American citizens. How many still think that Saddam, a) had something to do with 9/11; b) think Saddam had WMDs?

Probably the same people now against the community center in NYC.

Below are some slight indications that there is something very very wrong with a major world religion beyond the 911 attacks.

We had a major Muslin country as a country putting out a hit contract on an author in the name of that religious just to start with long before 911.

It would be similar to if the Pope along with the Italian government would had in the name of Christianity placed that kind of a hit contract on a writer.

I do not remember many Muslins at the time in public disagreeing with this actions either.

Silent give at least the impression of agreement.

Then we have the very silly case of a few cartoons many of them never having anything to do with Muhammad causing deaths and riots all over the world and once more the Muslin world seem silent over this not being a proper action.

Similar to when a figure of Jesus was placed in a bottle of human urine however, no worldwide riots occur because of that now did it?

The stoning of man and women to death and the mistreatment of women as a class worldwide under such Muslin control countries also seem a good warning sign that something is wrong here.

Your one-sided diatribe has no common sense; you just look at a small number of Muslims (of which there are 1.6 billion in this world) and apply what extremists did without looking here in the US where people like Tim McVeigh (white and catholic) killed innocents in the Oklahoma City bombing.

I guess we can now blame all whites and catholics in the same way you're blamimg all Muslims. How about all Irish? Maybe, mathematically, it makes more sense to people like you.

If the pope were behind a hit contract on a writer with the backing of the Italian government then I would question what was happening to the Catholic faith.

Not that all Catholics were at fault but as a faith something was going slightly wrong.

You do not have approval rights over other peoples opinions and appetites, you dont get to conclude that you dont find my opinion sensible enough and therefore it does not count. Mine counts as much as yours does, always. All you can say is that you have a different opinion, that you want to do something else, and you think yours is more logical. I think mine is right, and is more practical, and it represents my values, and I am comforted to see that the majority of Americans seem to share my values.

In this case you have the minority opinion. You are free to try to make it the majority opinion, but insulting the intelligence of those who you are trying to convince is a piss poor approach.....is not likely to work.

Your assuming that moderate Muslim leaders are behind the violence perpetrated against innocent people.

You're dumb as a rock.

I'm glad you're comforted by being in the majority, but the majority can be swayed by erroneous beliefs, inaccurate information, and perception which is distorted by emotion. So, the majority opinion can be quite off base in terms of objectively viewing and interpreting a situation, and its conclusions would be equally faulty.

You are ignorant of actual facts in this situation--you are misinformed and uninformed.

A perfect example is that crap you posted about Iman Rauf--he's a "loner", his accomplishments are limited to being a slum lord in New Jersey, etc., etc.--absolutely none of which was true. You appear to know nothing about the man, or his past activities and accomplishments, yet you freely trash him with lies. because that helps you justify your opinions.

Sure you're entitled to your opinion. You're also entitled to bask in your ignorance. But don't pretend you actually have a fact based grounding for your opinion because you don't.

Yes, we are well aware that you believe that you get to decide when other peoples choices are good enough. You also constantly show that you think that you get to decide for other people what is best and best for them. Your stink of arrogance and condescension can not be missed.

facts not in evidence

Facts not in evidence

How mighty wide of you

facts not in evidence

Where did I stated that about moderate Muslim leaders?

Sadly however a large percent of the total Muslim leaderships are not moderates and they tend to be in charges of whole nation states such as Iran.

Of all the current world religions this faith is by it members and leaderships actions done in the name of that faith is the most danger to world peace by far.

As an atheist I had no dog in the race I am just watching the race.

The last page reminds me of a lesson that I learned growing up in the mid-west, the Grandson of a Michigan farmer who spent his working life scratching at a few hundred acres of dirt that was not good for much, and a Wisconsin print shop owner who toiled 6o hours a week or more most of his life and was always hustling for jobs....we were taught very young that some of the dumbest people in this land are wickedly book smart, and can talk your ear off all day long sounding all the world like they know something.

I have always found this to be true.