Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

Quote:

That Pamela Geller brews a mean KoolAid. How much did you drink, Hawkeye?

that phrase is generally used when a position in on the extreme fringe, in the extreme minority. I am firmly in the camp of the majority on this issue, thus your thinking does not apply to me. You attempting to color a strong majority position as a fringe position makes you look stupid, because the facts are well known, as well it can clearly be seen that you are avoiding the facts. But we have seen that before with you, haven't we...

Reason: Should we acknowledge that organized religion has sometimes sparked precisely the kinds of emancipation movements that could lift Islam into modern times? Slavery in the United States ended in part because of opposition by prominent church members and the communities they galvanized. The Polish Catholic Church helped defeat the Jaruzelski puppet regime. Do you think Islam could bring about similar social and political changes?

Hirsi Ali: Only if Islam is defeated. Because right now, the political side of Islam, the power-hungry expansionist side of Islam, has become superior to the Sufis and the Ismailis and the peace-seeking Muslims.

Reason: Don’t you mean defeating radical Islam?
Hirsi Ali: No. Islam, period. Once it’s defeated, it can mutate into something peaceful. It’s very difficult to even talk about peace now. They’re not interested in peace.

Reason: We have to crush the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims under our boot? In concrete terms, what does that mean, “defeat Islam”?

Hirsi Ali: I think that we are at war with Islam. And there’s no middle ground in wars. Islam can be defeated in many ways. For starters, you stop the spread of the ideology itself; at present, there are native Westerners converting to Islam, and they’re the most fanatical sometimes. There is infiltration of Islam in the schools and universities of the West. You stop that. You stop the symbol burning and the effigy burning, and you look them in the eye and flex your muscles and you say, “This is a warning. We won’t accept this anymore.” There comes a moment when you crush your enemy.

Reason: Militarily?

Hirsi Ali: In all forms, and if you don’t do that, then you have to live with the consequence of being crushed.

Reason: Are we really heading toward anything so ominous?

Hirsi Ali: I think that’s where we’re heading. We’re heading there because the West has been in denial for a long time. It did not respond to the signals that were smaller and easier to take care of. Now we have some choices to make. This is a dilemma: Western civilization is a celebration of life—everybody’s life, even your enemy’s life. So how can you be true to that morality and at the same time defend yourself against a very powerful enemy that seeks to destroy you?

Reason: George Bush, not the most conciliatory person in the world, has said on plenty of occasions that we are not at war with Islam.

Hirsi Ali: If the most powerful man in the West talks like that, then, without intending to, he’s making radical Muslims think they’ve already won. There is no moderate Islam. There are Muslims who are passive, who don’t all follow the rules of Islam, but there’s really only one Islam, defined as submission to the will of God. There’s nothing moderate about it.

Reason: So when even a hard-line critic of Islam such as Daniel Pipes says, “Radical Islam is the problem, but moderate Islam is the solution,” he’s wrong?

Hirsi Ali: He’s wrong. Sorry about that.

I would not go so far, but playing Pattie-cake with them as we are want to do shows an irresponsible decadence, from people who have forgotten how the power game is played....as well as the costs of losing.

While I 100% support the building of the mosque/community center,
I have seen writing from people about the founding fathers.

I found this article, and it details what the FF's thought about Islam.
The blue highlited areas are links to the actual documents.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/no-professor-ahmed-the-founders-were-not-so-fond-of-islam/

We cannot obliterate 1.5 billion Muslims. Nor can we follow Ann Coulter's suggestion about carpet bombing them and converting them to Christianity. We have no option except to work out a way of co-existing with the Muslim world. And trying to do that, may bring us into WW III.

Again, what are the facts that argue against this mosque being built in lower Manhattan

Again, what are the facts that argue against this mosque being built in lower Manhattan

Offending the majority of Americans is not a good way to reach the stated goal
of living peaceably in American amongst Americans.

Insulting people is a good way for Moslems to make enemies.

Insulting people is a good way for Moslems to make enemies.

and saying that your whole life has been about being a peace maker and that you just want to make peace (as this Imam said to Larry King) while you are being told that your plan is offensive the the majority of a very large country....and then saying that you can't change course because that would be caving into the radicals, is a good way to get people to conclude that you are full of S**T.

Somebody though I do not remember who had the good point that if this Imam is all hot to trot to do good works what he should do is get his ass to Pakistan and help alleviate the suffering, and use his contacts in the West to raise money for them. There would be no better way to promote the agenda of Islam as he claims to see it than to do that.

But no, he would rather piss off nearly 70% of Americans trying to build his pet project.

Something stinks here..Maybe he figures the Taliban would assassinate him?

I m just saying that when the Moslems intentionally insult us,
as thay do in this instance, that we recognize the indignity for what it IS, not pretend to be too stupid to understand.

Offending the majority of Americans is not a good way to reach the stated goal of living peaceably in American amongst Americans.

Offending the majority of Americans is not a good way to reach the stated goal
of living peaceably in American amongst Americans.

Did you read my previous three posts? I explained a very effective, systematic propaganda campaign, by Geller and Spencer, to convince the public that there was something offensive about this mosque being built at that location and something very suspect about the people who wanted to build it. And it worked. People were manipulated to believe that the project was offensive.

People were manipulated to believe that the thought of the mosque in that location was intolerable.

It is as OBVIOUS as a Moslem spitting in our faces.

Did you read my previous three posts? I explained a very effective, systematic propaganda campaign, by Geller and Spencer, to convince the public that there was something offensive about this mosque being built at that location and something very suspect about the people who wanted to build it