Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

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Are some races and religions unequal to others?

I dont care about race, and I have already said that Islam as it is currently practiced is not supportable. Islam must be reformed before I embrace it, and I call for my fellow Americans to also rebuff calls for tolerance of Islam until and unless it is reformed. Those who follow Islam can do what they want of course,but it will be without my blessing.

Muslims who either embrace or tolerate the current radical anti western flavor of Islam have EARNED my condemnation.

So, you have finally admitted that you are, in fact, a bigot towards Muslims. I submit that you don't know the first thing about Islaam, the different sects of it, or their attitude towards our modern world; instead, you have lumped them all into one group and decided that any of them who don't loudly condemn the rest of them isn't worth respect.

Given your admission, I don't know why anyone would give a **** what your opinion on this matter is. It's like asking a Racist about the group they are racist toward. It is not a logical or informed position, but one of ignorance and hate. I condemn you for this, and will continue to do so - while supporting instead the concept that ALL are equal, despite their religion or race.

Cycloptichorn

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@hawkeye10,

So then you have no legit reason to object. Dumb reasons, you seem to have in bulk. Did you buy them trough the year or do you just go to Sams or Costco and buy a palatte for the whole year?

Park 51 has nothing to do with 9/11. Itäs not going to have an interfaith chapel. This is far more than they needed to offer, and for what it´s worth, it is a wasted gesture to idiots like you who simply want any excuse to try and pass off your bigorty as legit.

pathetic.

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@Cycloptichorn,

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So, you have finally admitted that you are, in fact, a bigot towards Muslims. I submit that you don't know the first thing about Islaam, the different sects of it, or their attitude towards our modern world; instead, you have lumped them all into one group and decided that any of them who don't loudly condemn the rest of them isn't worth respect.

You have just described the essence of ignorance and bigotry. Bigotry has hidden its ugly head for many years, but we can now see it is still alive and well in the US - and what's frightful is that's the majority belief.

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@Cycloptichorn,

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So, you have finally admitted that you are, in fact, a bigot towards Muslims.

there is that word yet again, like it actually means something other than professing to be ok with everything and anything other people do. Actions have values which require judgement. And so do people. I am a bigot as it is currently defined, and my only question is why doesn't everyone have the good sense to also be a bigot?

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I submit that you don't know the first thing about Islaam, the different sects of it, or their attitude towards our modern world; instead, you have lumped them all into one group and decided that any of them who don't loudly condemn the rest of them isn't worth respect.

A judgment that you have no basis to form, and which is easily tested. You sure are a lazy one.

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Given your admission, I don't know why anyone would give a **** what your opinion on this matter is.

They either do or they dont..unlike you I dont feel that I have the right to try to control other peoples thoughts and opinions. I have enough respect for my fellow man to be be fine with them running their own lives, and all I ask in return for this generosity is a return of the favor.

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@hawkeye10,

Simply put, bigotry is always based on ignorance; always.

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@hawkeye10,

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And so do people. I am a bigot as it is currently defined, and my only question is why doesn't everyone have the good sense to also be a bigot?

It's not a good thing to be a bigot. It's the sign of a weak mind and an insecure person. I shouldn't have to explain this to a grown adult.

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Actions have values which require judgement. And so do people.

This is the essence of bigotry - you are judging people for actions they didn't take, for values they don't profess, for what other people did. Do you even realize that's what you are doing?

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They either do or they dont..unlike you I dont feel that I have the right to try to control other peoples thoughts and opinions.

No, just to control their freedoms and rights based on your bigotry.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

This is the essence of bigotry - you are judging people for actions they didn't take, for values they don't profess, for what other people did. Do you even realize that's what you are doing?

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@Cycloptichorn,

All these "conservatives" who keep telling us about less governmental control over the people always contradict their own beliefs. Their hypocrisy never ends; they don't want government control, but they want conservative control.

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@cicerone imposter,

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Simply put, bigotry is always based on ignorance; always.

So long as ignorance continues to be defined as in not believing what is supposed to be believed. The trouble is what is called by the elites education in practice often turns out to be unexamined prejudice wrapped in rationalizations in order to allow it to masquerade as fact.

You really don't want to start a conversation about all the things the elites claimed as fact that we have in the last decade proven beyond a shadow of a doubt is not true. Our entire economic system for instance was built by misguided know it alls that it turns out knew very little.

I am not persuaded by your claims of superiority CI.

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@hawkeye10,

No matter what one is taught, it's incumbent upon the individual to ensure it meets intellectual scrutiny, logic, and the laws.

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@cicerone imposter,

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No matter what one is taught, it's incumbent upon the individual to ensure it meets intellectual scrutiny, logic, .

So long as that individual remembers that humans are partly irrational, and he is wide enough to allow others to be fully human (AKA partly irrational)

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and the laws.

Bullshit. We make the laws, there is no duty for individuals to make sure that their actions conform to law, because if the laws are wrong his duty is to change the laws. As for opinion, that is the domain of the individual, the law has no jurisdiction here.

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@hawkeye10,

So what law is wrong here that involves park51 to be built?

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@failures art,

I dont think that there is any law wrong here. I fully support the law providing for this project being built. I also fully support those who criticize the project and those who are trying to build it. You should as well, the practicing of free speech and the confrontation of ideas is what made America great. If we could ever get back to practicing both of these ideals again with vigour we could be great again. You and your buddies continue to show a shocking ignorance of what is important.

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@hawkeye10,

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I also fully support those who criticize the project and those who are trying to build it.

I support your right to be a bigot, yes. I would fight to protect it. But it does you no honor and indeed is a stain upon us all, as Americans. A stain upon us.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Who has argued that people who hate Muslims shouldn't have the right to speak? This is a red herring. I don't care if your dick goes inward at the thought of American muslims and whatever you think they have on the agenda. I'm not to fond of any religion, but if Fred Phelps can have freedom of speech and religion, then certainly a bunch of Muslims should. Hell, Phelps praises the attacks! The Muslims at Park51 will be providing a memorial to the victims. Who is the real group of intolerance?

And so we are clear, if this was Phelps trying to build in this exact same spot, he'd have the right. It would not be misplaced tolerance. His assholes are always coming to DC, I don't need the validation of them being denied their rights.

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@Cycloptichorn,

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But it does you no honor and indeed is a stain upon us all, as Americans. A stain upon us

You represent the minority buddy boy....with a childish and condescending attitude like that you likely will stay in the minority. Shaming only works when the people you are working on believe that there is grounds for shame. In this case we think that we are the practical reasonable ones, and that you crew are idealistic idiots who would slit your own throats to uphold your all important "ideals". That is fine if you want to do it, but I will not be joining you.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
But it does you no honor and indeed is a stain upon us all, as Americans. A stain upon us
You represent the minority buddy boy....with a childish and condescending attitude like that you likely will stay in the minority.

I don't believe this is true at all. In fact, I think the vast majority of people would agree with me that it's wrong to be bigoted towards anyone, let alone a group as diverse as 'Muslims.'

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Shaming only works when the people you are working on believe that there is grounds for shame. In this case we think that we are the practical reasonable ones, and that you crew are idealistic idiots who would slit your own throats to uphold your all important "ideals".

You haven't presented a single practical or reasonable reason to be such a bigot towards Muslims, either in the case of this particular Mosque being built or anything else. Not even close. What you have done instead is, as I said earlier, the essence of bigotry - you are judging people based on things they didn't do and beliefs they don't have, because others who look kinda like them did do things and did have beliefs that you don't like. It is casual on your part, lazy, and idiotic.

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That is fine if you want to do it, but I will not be joining you.

Luckily for us, the Law is firmly on our side, while you have... nothing at all.

That's the best part about this whole conversation - you have already lost. There's nothing left for you to do except loudly proclaim yourself to be a bigot and say that everyone should be bigoted towards Muslims. Do you honestly think this reflects well upon you?

You keep saying 'we,' but from what I can tell it's mostly just you arguing your position any longer, and occasionally that idiot OmSigDavid.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

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It is casual on your part, lazy, and idiotic.

Is that your best argument, because really, I dont think that is going to do it.....there has been all kinds of shaming in the media and from our top political banana, we shall see in the weeks ahead as polling is done how well it is working. I predict that it will not, because I firmly believe that most of the majority not only feels no cause for shame, but we are tired of the self elected know it alls in the minority claiming that they know best how we should think, how we should live, and when the majority disagrees with them can think of nothing more constructive to do then to start calling names. And then you all have the unmitigated gall to claim that you are superior. What utter bullshit.

1 Reply

Just a brief summary...

1) the project is legal
2) the project is approved
3) to appease the critics, a multifaith chapel WITH services is a part of the new design
4) the people protesting have not had their right to assemble, speak, or practice religion taken away.

Hawk - you don't just want a right to an opinion. You want entitlement and validation. Your insecurity is transparent here. That's why you try and call upon your notion of "collective" or "majority" (whatever is in arms reach for rhetoric sake).

Here's the bottom line: The anti-mosque critics failed; they (you) lost. Perhaps your nose should be rubbed in the dirt. You're a poor loser, and it's apparent too when you complain about the rules before the first pitch. You can't swing, benchwarmer, but you can make noise.

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@hawkeye10,

You can't just wave your problems away, Hawkeye.

Ignorance and fear is the basis of your bigotry, and yet you are proud of it. When asked to present the supposedly reasonable and practical reasons behind your bigotry, you have been unable to do so.

What can you say to someone who cheers on ignorance, and pretends that education is a weakness? Only what has already been said: It is casual on your part, lazy, and idiotic. You have done no research or scholarship into this issue. You are not a trusted voice, by anyone, on really any issue, let alone whether or not Islaam is a religion that deserves to be discriminated against.

Just an asshole with an opinion. I think that actually sums up about 90% of your contribution to this site: opinions, with no facts to back them up, and a persistent sense of victimization.

I think the reason that you perceive others as acting superior to you, all the time, is because the majority of others really are superior to you, bigot. I don't think you ever got over the Fat Kid problems inside your head.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

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