46
   

Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 11:47 am
@firefly,
Quote:
What will not blow over so quickly is the anti-Muslim feeling that has been generated by this controversy
That the promoters of this project would do a project that is so divisive calls into question their motives. Had they wanted to do a project that put Muslims more in the good graces of the majority they easily could have done so. Even now they could, but given how determined they are to do what ever they damn well please it seems unlikely that we will see reform.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 11:50 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
who are making an issue out of this, like yourself, are mostly Dicks and political operatives on the right-wing who are looking to stir up Xenophobia before the election.
I represent the majority. You might take care with your tone....picking a fight with someone who is bigger than you and who has more power than you often does not work out so well. I have more friends than you do on this issue.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 11:50 am
@hawkeye10,
hawk, But the America you speak of today is much different than it was in the past. Most Americans are ignorant of our Constitution, and rely on their emotions and feelings to arrive at conclusions that flies in the face of our country's charter, the US Constitution. They don't realize how the same emotional restrictions placed on their religion will affect them. They are in a word. dumb.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 11:50 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
That the promoters of this project would do a project that is so divisive calls into question their motives.


Bullshit. You are once again positioning yourself and your fellow bigots as some sort of victims here. You are not the victim; they are the victims of your bigotry.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 11:51 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I have more friends than you do on this issue.


I have a hard time believing you have any friends at all, Hawkeye.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 11:53 am
@Cycloptichorn,
They have the gall to create this divisiveness based on "the freedom of religion," then try to blame the innocent people who are building with all the legal, ethical, moral rights afforded them by city and national laws.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 11:57 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
They don't realize how the same emotional restrictions placed on their religion will affect them. They are in a word. dumb.
Yet another insult of the majority from the fringe on the left.......Dont you people ever get tired of your smug superiority? It certainly gets annoying for the rest of us.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 11:59 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
They don't realize how the same emotional restrictions placed on their religion will affect them. They are in a word. dumb.
Yet another insult of the majority from the fringe on the left.......Dont you people ever get tired of your smug superiority? It certainly gets annoying for the rest of us.


I don't ever get tired of being superior to you, Hawkeye. It's a constant source of mirth for me that lightens my step on a daily basis and provides fun times for myself and my associates.

However, I can see how you would be annoyed with this over time. All you have to do, to end it, is stop making such stupid ******* statements across multiple threads on a daily basis.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 12:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
I calls em like I sees em. Dumb and dumber. Most don't understand "freedom of religion;" one of the primary tenants of our country. Without it, we're just another dumb country with no equal rights under our laws.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 12:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I calls em like I sees em. Dumb and dumber. Most don't understand "freedom of religion;" one of the primary tenants of our country. Without it, we're just another dumb country with no equal rights under our laws.
It is a real problem, but constantly insulting your peers is not a productive response. And the end of the day all it does is make you look bad. If you are so smart then why do you keep doing stupid things? (I sorta mean that personally, but more mean that generally....as in why do those who consider themselves educated keep doing things that cause everyone else to disregard what they say?)
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 12:42 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
That the promoters of this project would do a project that is so divisive calls into question their motives.


Doesn't it occur to you that there was no reason for them to think of their project as being divisive beforehand? Why should they have anticipated any major controversy or opposition to it? There are two other mosques in the same immediate area, which have been there for at least 15-20 years, with no problems. And there is that huge Islamic mosque on 96th street--which also functions without problems.

If it were not for Geller and Spencer and Stop Islamization Of America, and their organized propaganda machine/network allied with the Tea Party, this would never have generated any controversy to begin with. The community board never thought it was controversial. This entire controversy has been manufactured and drummed up by a slightly lunatic anti-Muslim fringe group that is dedicated to opposing mosques, and ridding America of mosques, everywhere in this country. Their issue has nothing to do with this particular mosque, or how close it is to Ground Zero--they don't want mosques anywhere. These alleged flag-waving "patriots" don't believe that the Constitutional freedom of religion should extend to Muslims. They are flat out bigots. And that's who has always spearheaded the opposition to this mosque--Geller and Spencer--and the internet has given them the ability to marshall forces, and promote lies and disseminate propaganda rapidly.

Why on earth should Muslims want to put themselves "in the good graces of the majority"? They are not second class citizens who should have to kiss anyone's ass in order to exercise their Constitutional rights. Just because you have decided you want them to kowtow to you, hardly means they have to do it, or that they are troublemakers if they don't want to do that. They don't have to "reform", it's the attitudes of people like you that have to change. If you can't accept them, no matter where they build their mosques, you'll just have to learn to at least tolerate them. America has always been, and will continue to be, a melting pot. If you can't stand the heat from that pot, then get out of the kitchen.

Do you like to be bullied or victimized or coerced into doing things you don't want to do? You never did answer the questions I raised in my last post about whether you would abandon your plans to build a house because your neighbors, or even the entire community, objected to your presence? Would you go running with your tail between between your legs in order to get yourself into "the good graces of the majority"?

I admire their firm stance. They are conducting themselves with dignity, which is a lot more than I can say about many of the people opposing this mosque/center.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 12:47 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Doesn't it occur to you that there was no reason for them to think of their project as being divisive beforehand?
Ya, because they have admitted as much. And most everyone who knows anything about NYC politics has said that they were ******* nuts, that they are amateur's and that they dont know what they are doing.

This however does not explain them to this day not getting with the program. This is fixable, if they want to fix it.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 12:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
This however does not explain them to this day not getting with the program.


Whose program? Yours? Stop Islamization Of America's program?

You still didn't answer my previous question--would you run with your tail between your legs if you were being bullied?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 12:56 pm
@hawkeye10,
It's the New York politics that's ******* nuts!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 12:58 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
This however does not explain them to this day not getting with the program. This is fixable, if they want to fix it.


I think that this whole issue has shown that there are some who aren't with the program - that is, the 'equality for everyone regardless of religion or race' program that America is supposed to be all about.

The truth is that you don't really believe in this, do you?

Cycloptichorn
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 01:01 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
However, Ahmed himself disagrees with plans for the mosque because 9/11 is central to the American identity, which should be considered in any plans to construct something near the site where almost 3,000 people were killed.



"His theology is fine. The anthropology is shaky," he said. "He's put himself and the Muslim community and supporters in a very difficult situation."

If Rauf backs down, he appears weak; if he goes forward, he appears insensitive, Ahmed said, suggesting "the Islamic way out of this impasse" would be to appeal "to the charity and compassion that lie at the heart of God."

Rather than a brick-and-mortar testament, God would prefer that his greatest creation, humans, be happy and safe, Ahmed said. It would benefit interfaith relations more if Rauf took his check for the mosque and traveled as an American imam to Pakistan, where millions suffer from recent flooding.

"Here is something far dearer to God," Ahmed said. "Let him show Muslim charity
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/09/08/imam.feisal.abdul.rauf.profile/index.html?section=cnn_latest


Exactly, this confrontation was totally unnecessary...it was the result of bungling.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 01:07 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Exactly, this confrontation was totally unnecessary...it was the result of bungling.


What bungling?

I think it's fair to say that they underestimated how racists and assholes such as yourself would use this issue for their political gains. Hard to fault someone for believing that people won't be dicks, though.

Do you believe that all people are equal, despite their race or religion, Hawkeye? Yes or no.

Cycloptichorn
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 01:17 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Do you believe that all people are equal, despite their race or religion, Hawkeye? Yes or no.
ABSOLUTELY NOT! All men are created equal by the creator, before God, they are not equal on earth in value to the species. I believe in working towards equality on earth, but we will never get there, and we should never be blind to the inequality that exists. People should always be judged upon their merits.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 01:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Do you believe that all people are equal, despite their race or religion, Hawkeye? Yes or no.
ABSOLUTELY NOT! All men are created equal by the creator, before God, they are not equal on earth in value to the species.


Based on their personal choices, or their race and religion? Are some races and religions unequal to others?

Cycloptichorn
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 01:29 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Are some races and religions unequal to others?
I dont care about race, and I have already said that Islam as it is currently practiced is not supportable. Islam must be reformed before I embrace it, and I call for my fellow Americans to also rebuff calls for tolerance of Islam until and unless it is reformed. Those who follow Islam can do what they want of course,but it will be without my blessing.

Muslims who either embrace or tolerate the current radical anti western flavor of Islam have EARNED my condemnation.
 

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