1
   

American United or AU inforcing seperation of church and state

 
 
aaronssongs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 08:46 am
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;21274 wrote:
Which slight against Nancy Pelosi, again? Yes, a priest can enforce morality and morals, such as respect for life, etc., durig a homily (or preacher during a sermon), and enforce the importance of that upon the people in attendence.
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 08:59 am
@One Man Clan,
One Man Clan;21261 wrote:
Here's the most umimportant quote of the day.


The truth is only unimportant to liars.
:headbang:

Furthermore, your tomes are boring.
0 Replies
 
STNGfan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 10:23 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;21258 wrote:
The Abolitionist Movement was strongly Christian.


Believe it or not but you can be christian and be agianst seperation of Church and state and understand that no everyone in the United States is Christian or have that set of beliefs.

We are freedom or religion nation
not a christian nation
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 10:45 am
@STNGfan,
STNGfan;21326 wrote:
Believe it or not but you can be christian and be agianst seperation of Church and state and understand that no everyone in the United States is Christian or have that set of beliefs.

We are freedom or religion nation
not a christian nation



Right. But you asked what the Bible had to do with ending slavery. I merely pointed out that most abolitionists were devout Christians.
aaronssongs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 11:59 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;21335 wrote:
Right. But you asked what the Bible had to do with ending slavery. I merely pointed out that most abolitionists were devout Christians.



EXCUSE ME, BUT HOW MANY WARS, KILLINGS, AND INJUSTICES HAVE BEEN PERPETRATED, USING THE BIBLE AS JUSTIFICATION?
ABOLITIONISTS? HELLFIRE. MOST SLAVE OWNERS (IF NOT SLAVE "TRADERS"), I'M ALMOST SURE, WOULD CLASSIFY THEMSELVES AS "DEVOUT CHRISTIANS"
MEMBERS OF THE KKK, PROFESS TO BE CHRISTIANS....SO WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
THE BIBLE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ENDING SLAVERY...IT WAS USED TO "ENSLAVE"....SLAVERY WAS ENDED BY THOSE WITH THE CONVICTION OF MORALITY...THAT SLAVERY OF HUMAN BEINGS, IS, INHERENTLY WRONG.
GET REAL...THE BIBLE, INDEED.
NOTHING WORSE THAN SOMEONE WANTING TO BEAT YOU UP WITH THE BIBLE, AND THEY HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT SCRIPTURE MEANS, AND CAN'T EXPLAIN IT TO YOU, WHICH HAS HAPPENED TO ME, ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS.
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 12:12 pm
@aaronssongs,
aaronssongs;21297 wrote:


Oh, I forgot about my sig. Uh, so I don't like Pelosi means I am agenda laden? The fact that you are so mad about it is proof of your agenda. And your semantics arguments are really starting to annoy me. A priest can enforce ('to urge with energy') the teachings of the Church on abortion, and tell people about the morals of the Church because they are important. ANd they should not be taxed for it. I really think you're just looking for an argument, no matter how ridiculous.

And you don't want to bottle up your anger like that, keep letting it out. It doesn't matter that it makes no sense. You may want to learn that there are people who disagree with you and that's no reason to throw a temper tantrum while you're at it.
aaronssongs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 01:00 pm
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;21353 wrote:
Oh, I forgot about my sig. Uh, so I don't like Pelosi means I am agenda laden? The fact that you are so mad about it is proof of your agenda. And your semantics arguments are really starting to annoy me. A priest can enforce ('to urge with energy') the teachings of the Church on abortion, and tell people about the morals of the Church because they are important. ANd they should not be taxed for it. I really think you're just looking for an argument, no matter how ridiculous.

And you don't want to bottle up your anger like that, keep letting it out. It doesn't matter that it makes no sense. You may want to learn that there are people who disagree with you and that's no reason to throw a temper tantrum while you're at it.



Ah, there is that absence of responsibility. You forgot about the quote you have on your page? Typical. And yes, you're "agenda-laden", because you tout propaganda as if it is fact, or means something. That's what Republicans do...and Fox News is your de facto mouthpiece.
And your semantics are equally annoying. A priest can , indeed, "enforce" (urge with energy) the teachings of Christ, but can he make the congregation adhere to those teachings? Perhaps with persuasion.... perhaps with the threat of "hellfire"...perhaps, with love and compassion. But it is incumbent upon the listener, "who has the ears to hear", to act upon what is prescibed or endorsed, or here, "enforced".
I'm saying that sometimes, people fail to "act upon" that which is being enforced, and incur "consequences", such as being condemned or "being oustered from a church".
Did the priest or minister, in fact, "enforce" morality? My argument is he did not...because it was not his to enforce...it is likened to "a garment, to be worn"...Can I wear your sweater for you? I cannot. Neither can morality be enforced, or a better word, "inflicted" upon an individual...one can receive punishment for non-adherence, but one either has a sense of morality or he or she doesn't.

" A priest can enforce ('to urge with energy') the teachings of the Church on abortion, and tell people about the morals of the Church because they are important. ANd they should not be taxed for it".
Agreed. The church should not be taxed for the teaching or preaching of church doctrine. However, when "a church", or "a denomination", chooses to endorse a particular political candidate over another, to further their own agenda or particular view, they have trespassed the "fine line' of separation of church and State, IMHO, and deserve "to be taxed", as they have violated their "tax exempt" status. Point. Clear. Immutable.
0 Replies
 
aaronssongs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 01:06 pm
@STNGfan,
Furthermore,
I'm angry. Yes...I'm angry about the state we're in.
Where hypocrites, right and left, hyperventilate, and blow hot air, about what they think other people ought to do about anything. Messing with other folks' toothpicks, while they can't see for the big ol log in their eye.
Save us from the self-righteous, right wing, moral majority, bible thumpers, who are the biggest hypocrites on the face of the Earth...and don' t have a leg to stand upon, judging other people. The most intolerant, un-loving, un-Christ-like, and, quite often, the most ignorant people on the planet
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 01:16 pm
@STNGfan,
Quote:
Ah, there is that absence of responsibility. You forgot about the quote you have on your page? Typical.


Well, you see, it's quite easy seeing that I've had it forever and it always pops up, I don't type it every time.

Quote:
And yes, you're "agenda-laden", because you tout propaganda as if it is fact, or means something. That's what Republicans do...and Fox News is your de facto mouthpiece.


I like Alan Colmes just as much as Sean Hannity when it comes to Fox News. That's just you being agenda laden, talking points about Fox, right? Sorry that there's a news network with a conservative faction, I really am.

Quote:
And your semantics are equally annoying. A priest can , indeed, "enforce" (urge with energy) the teachings of Christ, but can he make the congregation adhere to those teachings? Perhaps with persuasion.... perhaps with the threat of "hellfire"...perhaps, with love and compassion. But it is incumbent upon the listener, "who has the ears to hear", to act upon what is prescibed or endorsed, or here, "enforced".


Ignoring stereotypes for the time being. But you are the one who started the whole argument.

Quote:
I'm saying that sometimes, people fail to "act upon" that which is being enforced, and incur "consequences", such as being condemned or "being oustered from a church".
Did the priest or minister, in fact, "enforce" morality? My argument is he did not...because it was not his to enforce...it is likened to "a garment, to be worn"...Can I wear your sweater for you? I cannot. Neither can morality be enforced, or a better word, "inflicted" upon an individual...one can receive punishment for non-adherence, but one either has a sense of morality or he or she doesn't.


Well whatever, just don't brag about voting for Kerry to your priest and you'll be fine. The reason the church might kick you out is because it's politicians getting into a classical church area with morality when it comes to such things, which they have to do to make laws. But still, you can't come along and say that this is from now on your place to decide when the pther guys have been doing it for longer and then tax them if they persist.

Quote:
Did the priest or minister, in fact, "enforce" morality? My argument is he did not...because it was not his to enforce...it is likened to "a garment, to be worn"...Can I wear your sweater for you? I cannot. Neither can morality be enforced, or a better word, "inflicted" upon an individual...one can receive punishment for non-adherence, but one either has a sense of morality or he or she doesn't.


One can gain a sense of morality if it is enforced with reason or facts by the priest, or their sense can be changed.

Quote:
Agreed. The church should not be taxed for the teaching or preaching of church doctrine. However, when "a church", or "a denomination", chooses to endorse a particular political candidate over another, to further their own agenda or particular view, they have trespassed the "fine line' of separation of church and State, IMHO, and deserve "to be taxed", as they have violated their "tax exempt" status. Point. Clear. Immutable.


I would say tax if they endorse a candidate, but not if they reject one based on morals.
0 Replies
 
aaronssongs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 01:22 pm
@STNGfan,
ok...a few bruises...but I'm intact...appears you are too...lol
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 02:53 pm
@aaronssongs,
"EXCUSE ME........."

Okay.

"....BUT HOW MANY WARS, KILLINGS, AND INJUSTICES HAVE BEEN PERPETRATED, USING THE BIBLE AS JUSTIFICATION?"

Dunno. You tell me.

"ABOLITIONISTS?"

Yes. Start with William Lloyd Garrison; religious revivals of the late 1820s and early 1830s in the northern U.S. Proceed to the American Anti-Slavery Society, and other RELIGIOUS, CHRISTIAN REFORMERS, such as Wendell Phillips, Thomas Wentworth Higginson, Theodore Parker, Charles Finney, Lyman Beecher and John Greenleaf Whittier.

"HELLFIRE. MOST SLAVE OWNERS (IF NOT SLAVE "TRADERS"), I'M ALMOST SURE, WOULD CLASSIFY THEMSELVES AS "DEVOUT CHRISTIANS"
MEMBERS OF THE KKK, PROFESS TO BE CHRISTIANS....SO WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?"


Study the above information, and then we'll talk. You're just letting off steam.
:headbang:
0 Replies
 
One Man Clan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 05:24 pm
@STNGfan,
Quote:


It's too bad George didn't understand morality.
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 05:39 pm
@STNGfan,
Washington was a great man. Sure, an aristocrat, but still one sharp dude, like Jefferson, the sex-predator.
0 Replies
 
Red cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 06:31 pm
@aaronssongs,
aaronssongs;21365 wrote:
Furthermore,
I'm angry. Yes...I'm angry about the state we're in.
Where hypocrites, right and left, hyperventilate, and blow hot air, about what they think other people ought to do about anything. Messing with other folks' toothpicks, while they can't see for the big ol log in their eye.
Save us from the self-righteous, right wing, moral majority, bible thumpers, who are the biggest hypocrites on the face of the Earth...and don' t have a leg to stand upon, judging other people. The most intolerant, un-loving, un-Christ-like, and, quite often, the most ignorant people on the planet


You talken about the Liberals or Fiberals right? Bunch of skanks who push their opinions down our throats whilst calling the right racist bigots amongst other gems. Tisk, tisk such anger. I'd rather be dead than REDDDDDDDDddddd.
0 Replies
 
aaronssongs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2007 04:13 am
@STNGfan,
Oh, I'm talking about the Right, the conservatives, the Republicans, this administration, Ronald Reagan, Strom Thurmond, Tom DeLay, Mark Foley, Ney, Enron, Cheney, Halliburton, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Fox News, Bill O'Reilly, Hannity, Rush, all of dem, and they mamas, ok?
There is no excuse on the face of this Earth for a such a thing as "reverse discrimination"...it doesn't exist. There is a thing called "white privilege"...which whites enjoy, whether they acknowledge it or not....there is no excuse for a white person not being able to realize "the American Dream", because that privilege exist....however, if you were a person of color, for one day, you'd realize the stark difference in the way you're treated by authority figures (such as law enforcement), potential employers, landlords, store clerks, and relatively ordinary citizenry....this is such a racist society we live in...and people are so willing to sweep it under the carpet, rather than to have an open discussion about it, or to even acknowledge that a problem still exists....ah, but I've digressed...what was the topic? (venting, you know...)
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 10:37 pm
@STNGfan,
I've been a person of color my whole life, i do not feel treated differently. Or is it just blacks that feel this?
aaronssongs
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 11:33 pm
@Drnaline,
Drnaline;21984 wrote:
I've been a person of color my whole life, i do not feel treated differently. Or is it just blacks that feel this?


Well, all I can tell you...is that either you're a "unique" case, or you're not being truthful. You mean to say, being a person of color, you've never experienced "racism" or discrimination?
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 11:42 pm
@STNGfan,
Or neither. I'm a minority who doesn't feel victimised and you find that strange?
Quote:
You mean to say, being a person of color, you've never experienced "racism" or discrimination?
Probably to both, but by the same token who hasn't in one way or another? Probably no one on the planet including whites?
aaronssongs
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2007 12:53 am
@Drnaline,
Drnaline;22001 wrote:
Or neither. I'm a minority who doesn't feel victimised and you find that strange?Probably to both, but by the same token who hasn't in one way or another? Probably no one on the planet including whites?


What makes you a person of color? Because, your answers are suspect.
And I'm inclined to believe that you are a right wing extremist, based on your ID, ( A "Peace sign"), as "Footprint of the American Chicken"

And,
" Feminism is a minority social movement, whose members murder innocent children in order to obtain sexual gratification.
Mike Adams

"The candidates that can't face Fox, can't face al-Qaida. And that's what's coming." Roger Ailes


Seems you have quite a few issues. All of which I seem to be at odds with.

"Desiring Peace", does not mean that you are weak, or operate from a position of weakness...it means that you cannot bully your way around the globe, and enforce your will on other peoples...no matter how right you thnk you are, and how wrong you think they are.

Feminism "is' a minority social movement, prodominant in the 60's and 70's, which has "morphed" into a broader based entity, which has to do with women's rights (i.e. equal pay for equal work, maternity leave, childcare, etc...)...and they don' t believe in the "murder of children"...I know you "pro-lifers" love to spin that...but some in the medical community, professionals, and people in positions of authority, along with a large segment of society do not believe that fetuses or embryos are children...anymore than egg yolks are baby chicks...the outcome is unsure.

Fox is an extremist right wing mouthpiece and cheerleading section for the Republican party and platform...which doesn't possess the decency or the integrity to hold this present corrupt , criminal administration to accountability. The candidates who wouldn't dignify that network, and lend it credibility by appearing on it, in any fashion or form, are courageous and heroic, exhibiting belief in a truly "fair and balanced" America...which lives up to its' creed.....life, liberty and justice for all....not just people who believe as you do. Tilt-A-Whirl
Oh, and the "fear mongering" about Democrats and liberals being afraid of Al-Quida....9/11 was an equal opportunity massacre...Democrats died along with Republicans...liberals with conservatives...gays with straights, women with men...pro-lifers with pro-choicers...and so on....stop acting like you all have a monopoly on outrage and revenge. Nobody is afraid of anyone.
We just have a different view as how to address it...with diplomacy, carrying a "big stick"...stop portraying Dems and liberals as "pantywaists"...we need to be united as Americans....the borders are a joke...whose watch is it on?
Dems don't have a majority in Congress and the Republicans are being obstructionists...not the Dems fault...so stop it. You Republicans have had your turn...you had the majority for 6 years, and look at the mess you made.
Look at all the scandals.
Now it's time for the Dems to correct (if possible) the biggest mess in our history. Move out the way.

And to address your previous post....
Don't play crazy...discrimination against whites doesn't even compare or impact the way discrimination against POC has...have whites been denied civil rights, the right to vote (in an open election), racial profiling, equity in the application of laws, employment, pay, education...and on and on and on and on....I was born at night, but not "last night".
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2007 09:21 am
@aaronssongs,
aaronssongs;22006 wrote:
What makes you a person of color? Because, your answers are suspect.
And I'm inclined to believe that you are a right wing extremist, based on your ID, ( A "Peace sign"), as "Footprint of the American Chicken"

And,
" Feminism is a minority social movement, whose members murder innocent children in order to obtain sexual gratification.
Mike Adams

"The candidates that can't face Fox, can't face al-Qaida. And that's what's coming." Roger Ailes


Seems you have quite a few issues. All of which I seem to be at odds with.

"Desiring Peace", does not mean that you are weak, or operate from a position of weakness...it means that you cannot bully your way around the globe, and enforce your will on other peoples...no matter how right you thnk you are, and how wrong you think they are.

Feminism "is' a minority social movement, prodominant in the 60's and 70's, which has "morphed" into a broader based entity, which has to do with women's rights (i.e. equal pay for equal work, maternity leave, childcare, etc...)...and they don' t believe in the "murder of children"...I know you "pro-lifers" love to spin that...but some in the medical community, professionals, and people in positions of authority, along with a large segment of society do not believe that fetuses or embryos are children...anymore than egg yolks are baby chicks...the outcome is unsure.

Fox is an extremist right wing mouthpiece and cheerleading section for the Republican party and platform...which doesn't possess the decency or the integrity to hold this present corrupt , criminal administration to accountability. The candidates who wouldn't dignify that network, and lend it credibility by appearing on it, in any fashion or form, are courageous and heroic, exhibiting belief in a truly "fair and balanced" America...which lives up to its' creed.....life, liberty and justice for all....not just people who believe as you do. Tilt-A-Whirl
Oh, and the "fear mongering" about Democrats and liberals being afraid of Al-Quida....9/11 was an equal opportunity massacre...Democrats died along with Republicans...liberals with conservatives...gays with straights, women with men...pro-lifers with pro-choicers...and so on....stop acting like you all have a monopoly on outrage and revenge. Nobody is afraid of anyone.
We just have a different view as how to address it...with diplomacy, carrying a "big stick"...stop portraying Dems and liberals as "pantywaists"...we need to be united as Americans....the borders are a joke...whose watch is it on?
Dems don't have a majority in Congress and the Republicans are being obstructionists...not the Dems fault...so stop it. You Republicans have had your turn...you had the majority for 6 years, and look at the mess you made.
Look at all the scandals.
Now it's time for the Dems to correct (if possible) the biggest mess in our history. Move out the way.

And to address your previous post....
Don't play crazy...discrimination against whites doesn't even compare or impact the way discrimination against POC has...have whites been denied civil rights, the right to vote (in an open election), racial profiling, equity in the application of laws, employment, pay, education...and on and on and on and on....I was born at night, but not "last night".
I'm a Chicano.
Quote:
Because, your answers are suspect.
What makes them suspect, because they oppose your opinion?
Quote:
And I'm inclined to believe that you are a right wing extremist, based on your ID, ( A "Peace sign"), as "Footprint of the American Chicken"
Your observations are uncanny.
Quote:
And,
" Feminism is a minority social movement, whose members murder innocent children in order to obtain sexual gratification.
Mike Adams

"The candidates that can't face Fox, can't face al-Qaida. And that's what's coming." Roger Ailes


Seems you have quite a few issues. All of which I seem to be at odds with.
I bet i got a good idea of what make's you odd?
Quote:
"Desiring Peace", does not mean that you are weak, or operate from a position of weakness...it means that you cannot bully your way around the globe, and enforce your will on other peoples...no matter how right you thnk you are, and how wrong you think they are.
Oh really? How would you propose stopping me, with peace? If your not prepared to defend your position with your life, all i see is words coming out of your mouth. Are you willing to do so, cause i'm not stoping?
Quote:
Feminism "is' a minority social movement, prodominant in the 60's and 70's, which has "morphed" into a broader based entity, which has to do with women's rights (i.e. equal pay for equal work, maternity leave, childcare, etc...)...and they don' t believe in the "murder of children"...I know you "pro-lifers" love to spin that...but some in the medical community, professionals, and people in positions of authority, along with a large segment of society do not believe that fetuses or embryos are children...anymore than egg yolks are baby chicks...the outcome is unsure.
What does "prochoice" imply? Death to the one that cannot speak or defend it self, how brave they are. "are not children" You do agree they are human and have inherant value?
Quote:
Fox is an extremist right wing mouthpiece and cheerleading section for the Republican party and platform...which doesn't possess the decency or the integrity to hold this present corrupt , criminal administration to accountability.
And what about the rest? Your only concern is with Faux?
Quote:
The candidates who wouldn't dignify that network, and lend it credibility by appearing on it, in any fashion or form, are courageous and heroic, exhibiting belief in a truly "fair and balanced" America...which lives up to its' creed.....life, liberty and justice for all....not just people who believe as you do. Tilt-A-Whirl
You just exude tolerence don't you? There "courageous and heroic" with a news station, again how brave they are?
Quote:
Oh, and the "fear mongering" about Democrats and liberals being afraid of Al-Quida....
Your not affaid, terrified would be more accurate.
Quote:
9/11 was an equal opportunity massacre...Democrats died along with Republicans...liberals with conservatives...gays with straights, women with men...pro-lifers with pro-choicers...and so on....stop acting like you all have a monopoly on outrage and revenge. Nobody is afraid of anyone.
I'm sure it took along time for you to get yourself to believe that.
Quote:
We just have a different view as how to address it...with diplomacy, carrying a "big stick"...stop portraying Dems and liberals as "pantywaists"...
What's the use of having a big stick if your affraid to use it? You like taunting?
Quote:
we need to be united as Americans....the borders are a joke...whose watch is it on?
You'll be getting the hand off in a year and a half or so, mind you that is if your lucky.
Quote:
Dems don't have a majority in Congress and the Republicans are being obstructionists...not the Dems fault...so stop it.
I will not! Turn about is fair play. It is too the dems fault, the fault is repugs having a memory. Too bad for you.
Quote:
You Republicans have had your turn...you had the majority for 6 years, and look at the mess you made.
That nothing compared to the mess we are gonna make! Unless your prepared to stop me? You pieceniks ain't got it in you.
Quote:
Look at all the scandals.
Now it's time for the Dems to correct (if possible) the biggest mess in our history. Move out the way.
You still don't get it, your gonna have to move me!
Quote:
And to address your previous post....
Don't play crazy...discrimination against whites doesn't even compare or impact the way discrimination against POC has...
I'm a person of color and i say your wrong. Why do you dislike the white race so much? Are you of the opinion that only white people discriminate?
 

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