American United or AU inforcing seperation of church and state

@STNGfan,

sorry enforcing. Typo

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@STNGfan,

By the same token, should the religous right have the right to stop there taxes from being used on any secular schools? Show me where in the Constitution is says anything about Church and State, then you can enforce all you want. But i've got a feeling you will be waiting a life time and then some to find it!

1 Reply

@STNGfan,

If the religious right have a problem with how our schools are run they can start their own schools.

taxes cannot go toward the promotion of religion period. You cannot just not pay taxes because the schools do not teach your religion.

If you do not want your taxes going toward the teachings of evolution or sex eduation make laws against it.

Otherwise your out of luck.

seperation of church and state only works one way.

Good luck trying to get it any other way.

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@STNGfan,

and what does this mean exactly?
"Feminism is a minority social movement, whose members murder innocent children in order to obtain sexual gratification."

Please show me where feminist murder innocent children for sexual gradification? I have never heard of this.

My what a quote considering the only reason women are allowed to vote or work is because of feminism or do you have a problem with women voting or working?

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@STNGfan,

Quote:

STNGfan;20595 wrote:

If the religious right have a problem with how our schools are run they can start their own schools.

taxes cannot go toward the promotion of religion period. You cannot just not pay taxes because the schools do not teach your religion.

If you do not want your taxes going toward the teachings of evolution or sex eduation make laws against it.

Otherwise your out of luck.

seperation of church and state only works one way.

Good luck trying to get it any other way.

Quote:

If the religious right have a problem with how our schools are run they can start their own schools.

We do, but for some reason they still want my taxes?

Quote:

taxes cannot go toward the promotion of religion period.

Please show me where in the Constitution is says so?

Quote:

You cannot just not pay taxes because the schools do not teach your religion.

Why would they accept moneys from a taxpayer whos faith is against there secular activity. Why should i be forced to pay for your children? Schools don't seem to have a problem teaching Muslim studies but mention anything Christian or God forbid say a prayer in school and you guys go apeshit? When the Constitution Says Freedom of religion i take that to include school as it is operated by our form of governing. You can't come it with anything referencing anything to Sep of C and S. so i don't see what ground your standing on to begin with? Our Constitution says "Congress" Shall make no law respecting religoin" It says nothing of any body else?

Quote:

If you do not want your taxes going toward the teachings of evolution or sex eduation make laws against it.

No, you do it. Have fun with any wording in the Constituion, your arguement won't be long.
Gotta run, later!

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@STNGfan,

STNGfan;20591 wrote:

Americans United: 60 Years of Freedom

Fighting the religious right and keeping your tax dollars from funding public religious schools, intelligent design from schools, mandatoy prayer and fundamentalist propaganda in public schools. Fighting anti-gay,anti women and anti-freedom of religion or non religion.

Also fighting reality? Let's ignore the religions and doctrines that shaped the world because it might offend someone? Fight fundie propaganda but include homosexual and femenist propaganda by force?

1 Reply

@STNGfan,

The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to a 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. The phrase itself does not appear in the Constitution, but it has been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court.

(From Wikipedia)

Sorry drnaline, Just because its not word for word in the constitution does NOT mean it is not a law.

Where in the constitution does it say if I go 10 MPH over the speed limit I am breaking a law?

The constituiton is intepreted byt the Supreme Court and they say Seperation Of church and state is the case they have said it since 1878.

1 Reply

@STNGfan,

Quoted as one of the interpretations of a writer, and probably misuderstood by modern thinking. He used it as a metaphor, but it probably meant nothing more than what the First Amendment says, just in a more loosley-interpretable form.

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@STNGfan,

Churchs should be taxed to the hilt if they want to play in politics.

1 Reply

@STNGfan,

If churches endorse candidates outright, maybe, if they just enforce morals and use them to tell you which candidates are advisable to vote for, then no, because religions have every right to have a code of morality.

1 Reply

@Reagaknight,

Reagaknight;20626 wrote:

Quoted as one of the interpretations of a writer, and probably misuderstood by modern thinking. He used it as a metaphor, but it probably meant nothing more than what the First Amendment says, just in a more loosley-interpretable form.

When the Supreme Court Interprets a Law it is the corner stone of future cases and is Law until the next supreme court rules against it.

No one has thus we do have a legal and binding law of "Seperation of Church and State"

We have had since 1878

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@STNGfan,

It says 'quoted in several opinions', doesn't really mean they uphold it, and if they do, then how do they interpret it? It was an informal statement and if it really has any bearing on the law other than taking it into small account as the view of one man.

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@STNGfan,

The opinion of the supreme court becomes a ruling an original ruling become precedent, this precedent is what stands over as law. again 1878 the precident was set and has yet to be overturned.

Just one small case if you wont accept how the judicial system works, "the pledge of allegiance"

I pledge alegiance to the flag of the united staes of america, and to the repulic for which it stands, one nation under god indivisble with liberty and justice for all.

Guess what Public schools cannot say UNDER GOD anymore. google it.

Also, as any military recruit will tell you what is the oath said at MEPS? the end is SO HELP ME GOD, however because of seperation of church and state you can also deliver the same oath with the ending SO HELP ME (no god)

1 Reply

@STNGfan,

[QUOTEGuess what Public schools cannot say UNDER GOD anymore. google it.][/QUOTE]

Yes, they can, and they do.

1 Reply

@Reagaknight,

Reagaknight;20603 wrote:

Also fighting reality? Let's ignore the religions and doctrines that shaped the world because it might offend someone? Fight fundie propaganda but include homosexual and femenist propaganda by force?

So your against tolerance and you against womens rights and equality.

What do you see wrong with that. You don't have to condone homosexuality in your home but face it they are not going away and your child needs to be able to be "Civil" with them even if they grow up not believing it is an ok thing to do. All our schools are doing is teaching tolerance...not acceptance. Jesus loved homosexuals unconditionally sinning or not. He did not condone the behavior but he did tolerate it.

As for womens rights... what do you have to fear from a dominate women? Why can't a women have power and presidge? Why can't a women run the household? Me thinks men like you are afraid of sharing power and wish to have someone to belittle and order around.

Ego issues.

1 Reply

@Reagaknight,

Reagaknight;20651 wrote:

[QUOTEGuess what Public schools cannot say UNDER GOD anymore. google it.]

Yes, they can, and they do.[/QUOTE]

Teachers cannot tell the whole class to say under God. It is told without God in it but if someone wishes to say under God in the class they can because of freedom of religion but the teacher cannot direct the whole class to say under God.

So you are both half right.

Also in during the plegence of allengience people no longer have to stand or put their hand over their heart when saying it. we are now to sit silently and do not have to say the words or stand or hold our hands over our hearts if we so wish.

Also after graduations ceremonies they can not longer ask for everyone for a moment of prayer. It is endorsing religion.

See ACLU...victory lawsuits.

If your school or college are still doing these things it is only a matter of time before they are caught and are forced by the law to stop.
:peace:

I know I know we are destroying your great country of intolerance and monopoly of christiantiy. It is sad I know...:dunno:

1 Reply

@rugonnacry,

rugonnacry;20621 wrote:

The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to a 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. The phrase itself does not appear in the Constitution, but it has been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court.

(From Wikipedia)

Sorry drnaline, Just because its not word for word in the constitution does NOT mean it is not a law.

Where in the constitution does it say if I go 10 MPH over the speed limit I am breaking a law?

The constituiton is intepreted byt the Supreme Court and they say Seperation Of church and state is the case they have said it since 1878.

Quote:

Sorry drnaline, Just because its not word for word in the constitution does NOT mean it is not a law.

There is not anything even close to word for word? Please show me any law that you see fits? The best you guys con come up with is to quote a letter from Jefferson to a Baptist. How does you quoting this change the context in which Jefferson ment it? It had nothing to do with the context in which Church and State is used today, you can't even compare the two yet you believe it to be law? SCOTUS quoting it means that same thing, it is an interpretation of something that is not there, henceforth our forfathers didn't want it there.

Quote:

Sorry drnaline, Just because its not word for word in the constitution does NOT mean it is not a law.

Show me a legislated law that says mixing Church and State is illegal? You will cite it is UnConstitutional, therefore illegal, i will ask where? You will quote a letter from Jefferson to a baptist. SCOTUS does not make law, they interpret law, interpretations can be wrong.

Quote:

Where in the constitution does it say if I go 10 MPH over the speed limit I am breaking a law?

Don't have too, it is writen in our cival laws.

Quote:

The constituiton is intepreted byt the Supreme Court and they say Seperation Of church and state is the case they have said it since 1878

Got link?

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@rugonnacry,

rugonnacry;20648 wrote:

The opinion of the supreme court becomes a ruling an original ruling become precedent, this precedent is what stands over as law. again 1878 the precident was set and has yet to be overturned.

Just one small case if you wont accept how the judicial system works, "the pledge of allegiance"

I pledge alegiance to the flag of the united staes of america, and to the repulic for which it stands, one nation under god indivisble with liberty and justice for all.

Guess what Public schools cannot say UNDER GOD anymore. google it.

Also, as any military recruit will tell you what is the oath said at MEPS? the end is SO HELP ME GOD, however because of seperation of church and state you can also deliver the same oath with the ending SO HELP ME (no god)

Quote:

The opinion of the supreme court becomes a ruling an original ruling become precedent, this precedent is what stands over as law. again 1878 the precident was set and has yet to be overturned.

So there is no law, all you have is a precedent. With the new conservatives in SCOTUS, if the case is revisited i see no problem with having the precedent overturned.

Quote:

Guess what Public schools cannot say UNDER GOD anymore. google it.

Public schools can't promote it but the kids can surely say it anyway.

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@STNGfan,

no one has a problem with kids praying in school on their own as long as you have no problem with the wiccan kid casting spells on their own in school and praying to their gods..or muslim kneeling to the rising sun and praising allah or buddhist medititing in the lotus sitting position. Wink

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American United or AU inforcing seperation of church and state

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