I don't know what to do with my marriage.

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The counsellor said the same as what many of you have said about possibly starting out small like taking the kids alone to the playground and working up so that my wife can see that nothing happens and that I'm responsible. I'm still trying to be open minded and I will continue, but I still don't like the thought of having to "prove" myself to my wife.

The basic question for you both to answer is "do you want to be right/angry, or do you want to be married?"

Both of you need to forget about what has happened in the past and agree on expectations for the present and future and then work to meet those expectations.

If you both are going to keep bringing up things from the past to counter any expectations and efforts to improve the present, no one is going to be happy and you might as well hire divorce attorneys now rather then waste the money on counseling.

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You can't change the past, so don't dwell so much on it other then to resolve the anger between you.

Put your energies into figuring out what you both need from each other now to be able to continue in a marriage you are happy with.

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I respectfully disagree, butryflynet. I think in front of a counseler, with a counseler's moderation, is the place to talk about what has been bothering them in the past, and then to come to grips with what new understanding of each other's point of view makes clear. It is a place to hear each other, and learn to do that more.

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It seemed the whole first hour was to vent our frustrations and get the problems out.

Sorry, to say that will take up a fair bit of time initially. Remember that these are the things stopping you from going forward. You can't let go of something if it just remains unsaid and others are unaware of it.

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Not that I could be any but the 'worst-case scenario' for you. My marriage (of 8 1/2 years) busted up two months ago and my wife is now hauling me through the courts as an alternative to that 'counselling' nonsense (her take on it, not mine). Stick with it, see what can be found out now before you are both making depositions to a judge.

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Sorry to hear that, Mr. Stillwater.

Fishin's comment is right on.

I understand how this stuff is easier said than done, though.

I also understand how several years of festering resentment can take a whole lot of time to get out. Glad you guys are doing it.

A quick question -- what did your wife do before you got married and had kids? Has she graduated from college? What level, what field, etc.? Did she work? What was her job?

Thanks for the update!

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sozobe wrote:

A quick question -- what did your wife do before you got married and had kids? Has she graduated from college? What level, what field, etc.? Did she work? What was her job?

She was a kindergarten teacher, with a bachelors degree in early childhood education. (I think that's what they call it.) She taught for about 5 years before she quit. She thinks that gives her another edge in knowing what's best for kids. I won't argue that, but I think she needs to cut me some slack. I have an accounting degree. (Even though I went into law enforcement.) When we decided to have a baby, I knew a lot about numbers, not about kids. I think a lot of times she dispells my opinion because of this.

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Many dads come into parenthood not knowing much about little kids. They learn. You've been learning; you'll learn more. I hope your wife comes to understand this better.

Your counseling will probably include some solo sessions in the future, where you can each talk and vent without the other present. That may be helpful, as the counselor can listen to each of you and help devise a solution without too much rancor (hopefully)...

Good luck, and hug your family lots!

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I SO have to avoid over-identifying. I have a master's degree in Deaf Education, which includes and early childhood education degree, and was an educator before I quit to be a stay-at-home mom.

At any rate, that fits the emerging picture I am getting. The reason I asked is because a lot of what you have said fits a situation where she was good at what she did and enjoyed doing it, and is now in a situation where she needs to have some sort of "professional" satisfaction, complicated by the fact that her job and training are so closely linked with mothering. As in; your job is law enforcement. Her job is to be a mother. She's gonna do it right, by golly by gum, 'cause she's a professional.

I think there may be a hefty dose of insecurity there -- if you are an active, "good" father, where does that leave her? Where does she get her professional satisfaction? She has her degree and her years of experience and this guy who crunches numbers and has no idea what to do with a squalling baby steps in... what if he really does do a good job? What does that say about her own job, about its difficulty, about how much "professional" satisfaction she can get from it?

If it's just set as she's the mom, she knows what to do, you have no idea, you're inept, that protects her territory.

Ya know?

Again, I don't know nothin', these are just things that occur to me as I read along. And if it resonates at all, it could help with the whole competition aspect -- rather than "she keeps trying to make me look bad", more of a "I can see how her insecurities are making her nervous about admitting any culpability."

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You may be right, sozobe. But getting her to admit anything like that is going to be difficult, I believe. I'm trying to be open with my problems, I just hope she can also. Unfortunately, it seems I own up to my problems and she points the finger and says "there ya go, you gotta fix that and then things will be better". And then that's it. She doesn't have to uncover anything. Again, I hope that won't be the case.

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That's one reason individual counseling can help. The counselor can say to her, this is what you should try to change, and answer when she says, why? it's all his fault...

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Yeah.

There was something that my husband said recently that made me think of this whole thing... he had spent some time with my daughter and said, "she is just so much more INTERESTING now. She, like, talks, and tells jokes, and is so much fun to be with." My immediate reaction was, but she always has been! He said something like, "Yeah, but when she was a baby, it was just kind of like... [vague floppy arm motion]"

But he really made an effort, even when he was clearly at a disadvantage -- just want to give him credit for all that he did, don't want to make it seem like I just kind of bestowed fathering rights on him. He did have to fight for it, too.

Again, best to you guys.

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I have a question. The counseler talked about how opposites attract. She said in this case it seems she probably liked me cause I didn't cause problems and liked to get along. I probably liked her because she was assertive and made decisions. She said if both of us were assertive, we would butt heads like crazy all the time. If we were both passive, we would never make a decision. I don't know if I agree with that. What do ya'll think? Besides, she wasn't quite so assertive until we were married and she got pregnant. Like she knew that it was safe to come out of her shell or something.

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I think there's some truth to that. My husband and I are both pretty assertive and have had to really talk a LOT and establish a lot of ways to deal with that. We tend to do this weird flip-flopping of roles -- you be the nurturer now, I've had enough.

I'm still skeptical of the coming out of her shell/ deception angle. I think that it may well have been insecurity and overcompensation rather than anything more nefarious. (Pregnancy can be a super insecure time.)

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I know I will need to get over this, just as she will have to overcome things, but I truly believe that I was misled from the beginning of this relationship. She knew the type of person I was and was willing to accept me then. Once we were married and started having kids, it all changed. I know this is being cynical, but that's what I believe. I know people change to a certain extent. But I think if you decide to accept someone for who they are, you can't criticize them for being that same person later. If you are able to move them slowly in the direction you want, then great, be happy with that, tell them your happy about it and encourage them to do more. My wife, on the other hand, says "your not up to this standard (holds hand wayyy up high), you wont get any credit for anything you do until you meet this standard". And the standard is to be just like her.

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Dave....I maybe wrong here, but from what you said...she was passive until she become pregnant. And being married to you.....who is passive, made her feel like if she didn't become aggressive, that decisions would never be made, or anything accomplished.

I am aggressive, where my husband is passive the majority of the time and from my experiences with him........which drive me crazy. There are times that I just throw my hands up and end up doing things my way. Because he won't make a decision. And of course then, he becomes aggressive, if its not done to suit him. Cant win for loosing.

I kinda feel like thats the situation your in. Maybe its not so much as the sudden interest in taking the kids somewhere. But your being passive in the past and not wanting to cause a rift with her...has led her to take charge where control issues lay. Its a habit now....and one she's not willing to break. But somewhere there has to be an even keel.

But I really don't blame you. I can see where your coming from and I hope this works out for you and your family. I know its hard and I'm proud of you for taking yourselves to a counselor. Not many would do that.

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Davrukr wrote:

But I think if you decide to accept someone for who they are, you can't criticize them for being that same person later.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

makemeshiver makes some good points.

At any rate, my overall (but ultimately uninformed) take on it at this point is that neither of you were WRONG, neither of you were RIGHT, you both kinda took your personalities to the extreme and somehow didn't deal with it, really, for a good long time, and it's got to be dealt with. Which you're doing, and yep, kudos to you for that.

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makemeshiver33 wrote:

Dave....I maybe wrong here, but from what you said...she was passive until she become pregnant. And being married to you.....who is passive, made her feel like if she didn't become aggressive, that decisions would never be made, or anything accomplished.

I am aggressive, where my husband is passive the majority of the time and from my experiences with him........which drive me crazy. There are times that I just throw my hands up and end up doing things my way. Because he won't make a decision. And of course then, he becomes aggressive, if its not done to suit him. Cant win for loosing.

I kinda feel like thats the situation your in. Maybe its not so much as the sudden interest in taking the kids somewhere. But your being passive in the past and not wanting to cause a rift with her...has led her to take charge where control issues lay. Its a habit now....and one she's not willing to break. But somewhere there has to be an even keel.

But I really don't blame you. I can see where your coming from and I hope this works out for you and your family. I know its hard and I'm proud of you for taking yourselves to a counselor. Not many would do that.

That's pretty much it, except for the decision part. I'm not bad about making decisions. Just getting along with others. I spend too much time trying to get people to like me. I'm passive until I get tired of it and then blow up and become aggresive. I hope we can work something out, just don't know how or what will happen. I'm afraid my passive nature pushes me towards the divorce so I don't have to deal with the problems anymore. Fortunately, I can see it doesn't really solve all your problems, it just creates new ones.

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You've shown a lot of self-awareness here, Dave, and that can only be good.

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Did the therapist give both of you something to do or write or list or prepare for the next session, Dave?

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I don't know what to do with my marriage.

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