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Tue 25 Nov, 2003 07:33 pm
I don't know what to do with my marriage. I'm a 32 year old male, married for 5 1/2 years. I have two beautiful kids, a 4 year old boy and a 3 year old girl. We are fortunate that I make enough money that she can stay at home with the kids.
My wife is very independant and aggressive. Unfortunately, I am very, I guess, passive. I like to let things go just to get along, but she can't. But I do have limits, and I think she has hit a big one that I just can't get over.
I understand that a marriage is always going to have problems that you have to work through. I think, however, that sometimes you just have to make a stand. Although there are many things I could talk about, I'll focus on our latest incident.
My wife, for some reason, obviously doesn't think she can trust me, alone, with our kids. She apparently doesn't think I'm responsible enough to keep an eye on them and keep them out of trouble without her being there. She does, however, trust others with our kids, like her parents. This came to a head this past weekend. I told her two months ago that I wanted to take my son, and my daughter if she wanted to go, to my deer hunting camp for an hour or so. I wanted to do something with them by myself. I wanted them to see my father and brother. Also, my friends there have never met my kids. To make it as easy as possible, I told her she and her mom could go to the outlet malls, which are only 5 miles away from our camp, and I could pick them up, take them out there and bring them back while they shopped for an hour or so. She was non-commital but didn't object at that time. I told here again about 2 weeks ago. I even talked to her mom, who seemed like it would be a fine idea. I told here once more during the week. Then the night before she starts questioning it. Are there going to be guns around? Uhhhh, well... It's not like we leave them laying around or carry them around. (And I'm a federal agent, I carry a gun every day, it's part of my job) Then she asks about the fire we have going, then says it's not a safe place for kids. Well, ya, it's not a completely safe place for kids, but I'm not asking for them to be there for the weekend, it's just an hour or so. I would think she could believe that I can watch them and keep them out of trouble for that long. Then she said she wanted to go with us. I told her this was something I wanted to do alone with the kids (strictly on principle at this point since she obviously doesn't trust me). I told her no and then she says that I never made it clear that she couldn't go. I don't understand how she interpreted that out of "while you and your mother shop, I want to take the kids with me". We argued, it got ugly.
She started throwing up the argument that I didn't show enough interest when the kids were born. How do you argue that? I believe I acted like any other husband and father when they were young. It's just that she had unrealistic expectations that I should be at her beck and call for anything and that I should have the same maternal instincts as she had. Well, there's a reason they call it maternal instinct. I cooked, washed dishes, vaccumed, mopped, mowed, took out the trash. I got up in the night with the kids, although not near as much as her, but I did and I never told her I wouldn't when she asked. I thought the whole ordeal was hard work. She couldn't believe I said that, she thought there was something wrong with me for thinking that taking care of your newborn was "work". I believe I did quite a bit, but for some reason she thinks that I did not show enough "interest".
Basically, she doesn't feel I'm equal to her. She is the sole boss of what the kids can and can't do. I feel I have no parental rights. I'm not the kind of person to just say "These are my kids, too" and take them. I'm afraid she might go nuts. She doesn't like going to my parents and I avoid pushing her on it. I try to be nice and not force the issue. Only problem is, my parent hardly get to see them. Her parents see them all the time.
I feel that the only way I will have any control over my kids to do things that I think are ok is to get a divorce and have them by myself every other weekend. It's either that or let her have the sole say-so. She doesn't want to compromise.
Am I wrong to think that most marriages are more equal when it comes to things like this? If you want to take YOUR kids to do something, do YOU have to get permission? Maybe I'm out of wack, I don't know.
I know I have probably rambled through this and it probably doesn't make much sense, sorry. It's hard to put your problems in a nice neat format, much less in a short amount of time.
Also, this is direct more at me more than her being controling. She lets the kids spend hours with her father by himself in his hanger. Her father has a hanger in the back yard, they live on in a small airport community. There are plenty of things the kids could get hurt with out there. But she TRUSTS him.
I don't have any kids (and I have to run, anyway), but one thing I'm wondering is, have you tried to have time with your kids in some area/activity that she absolutely, positively, could have no gripes about? What I mean is, a picnic in the park, a trip to the zoo, going to see an appropriate kids' movie, that kind of thing. It strikes me as a big deal to take the kids to some place where there's guns, etc. (these are rather young children) if you don't do other things with them. Perhaps you do, and I may be missing it in my reading of your post.
In any event, someone (presumably someone with children) will be along to continue this conversation. Sorry I can't stay but I've got to run and clean for the Thanksgiving weekend. All the best!
Ummm.. well... Ok, let me throw this out there and we'll see if it sticks.
No, I'm a father and I never "asked permission" to take my kid anywhere. If I was taking her someplace by myself I told her mother I was taking her and if there were complications (i.e. conflicting schedules, etc..) then we worked those out (usually in a matter of seconds) and went on our way. I can't say that I've ever heard of any father that still lives in the same household with the mother and kids that's had to ask permission to do something with the kids.
Sorry to say it but it sounds like she's using the kids as a weapon here.
I dunno if I agree, fishin.
Davrukr, I think there may be reasons why your wife is hesitant to see the kids go to a deer hunting camp. It sounds as if she thinks you're a little irresponsible. Do you think she has any basis for this opinion?
Off hand I see your point quite well. She is probably controlling the situation out of fear of some sort that you won't be watchful enough. It seems to me that you two should see a professional marriage counseller pronto, perhaps a licensed Marriage and Family Counseller. MFCT, I think is the license.
I am not one, and don't have children myself, but I think you two need help in making sharing and thoughtful decisions about daily life with the children.
I find some dissonance between the problem you write about and the title "I don't know what to do with my marriage".
But maybe there is none.
As you state things, your wife is too controlling, and you feel somehow diminished with her bossiness.
Probably the children are just one example.
Do you sometimes feel you just can't be too careful with your wife, or she'll somehow explode and demean you?
If that's the case, then she wants you to be passive, and will later reprimand you for being too passive. Catch 22. Big trouble ahead.
If it isn't and it's strictly a child rearing issue, then I'd take Jespah's advice, and work out "easier" outings with the children.
I've had a few disagreements with my wife about where to take our 9 yr. old girl.
She is weary when I take her with her brothers to the pro football (soccer) games of our favorite team. (Our team's fans are among the most aggresive and my wife fears -exagerantingly- that some rioting may come up). So we made a compromise: is the opposing team has aggresive fans, I go alone with the teenagers; if it has little following, the 9 year old comes along.
Do you think a similar compromise is possible in your case?
Swimpy wrote:I dunno if I agree, fishin.
Davrukr, I think there may be reasons why your wife is hesitant to see the kids go to a deer hunting camp. It sounds as if she thinks you're a little irresponsible. Do you think she has any basis for this opinion?
If the hunting camp trip was the only time it ever happened I'd have a different answer too but he stated in the paragraph previous to that "Although there are many things I could talk about, I'll focus on our latest incident." which, in my mind, throws up a red flag that this is a recurring theme here.
Jespah has a point. I did not pick the greatest situation to bring this out. However, I still think the premise is there. I haven't made it a point to do a lot of things by myself with the kids. It's just worked out that way. I am heavily involved with the kids, it's not that. It's just when we do something, we always do it together.
Swimpy - In my mind, I am responsible. I have a job that requires a great deal of responsiblity. I take care of most everything but the kids. But when someone has unrealistic expectations of a husband and father, it is very easy to twist things around. As far as trusting me to watch the kids, the kids have had plenty of accidents in her care. My son almost drowned once. They have also had incidents in her mom's care. They haven't had any accidents with me. I'm not keeping score or anything, don't get me wrong. I totally understand that these things are just part of kids growing up. But I don't think twice about the kids being in her care. But that same trust is not afforded to me.
fbaezer wrote:Do you sometimes feel you just can't be too careful with your wife, or she'll somehow explode and demean you?
If that's the case, then she wants you to be passive, and will later reprimand you for being too passive. Catch 22. Big trouble ahead.
Damn right.
(Sorry - I'm not out to be flippant. This is mostly my kind of way to bookmark a thread, and express instinctual recognition of what fbaezer said).
fbaezer - The reason I used that statement is because I feel I only have 2 choices at this point. Either let my wife exclude me from making decisions about this kids, such as this, or get a divorce. We are going to go to counseling, but she feels that she isn't wrong. And I don't think there is much to compromise on here. Either she treats me as an equal partner or not. This is more than just this one time, although this is the first time I have forced her hand. I know, it wasn't the best situation, but it's not that unsafe. No more than many other places they have been. I was taken there when I was my son's age and so were many others there. And besides, as I said before, we are talking about only an hour or so. Not to spend the weekend or even the day. Just long enough to let them see the place, meet my friends and have some interaction with my father and brother.
fbaezer - I do feel that I need to be careful with her. That why I don't push the issue most of the time. This time I decided to draw a line in the sand and she did exactly what I expected, she blew up and, yes, said many demeaning things.
I'll admit a lot of this is my fault because I let her get away with it. I just let it go just to get along. But why do I have to put up with this?? I shouldn't have to deal with a wife like this. But I don't think she is going to change. Seems like I either have to start asserting myself to the point I feel like a jerk, or get a divorce. I really can't stand the thought of splitting up the home and only seeing my kids every other weekend though. That would be really hard. But sometimes I think the time I spend with them would have more quality because I wouldn't have her hovering overhead. Also, they would have more of a relationship with my parents.
Speaking of my parents, they are really pushing me to get out of my marriage. I am trying my best to do everything I can to make this work. But they think I have done enough already. I know they have selfish interest, meaning they know they would get to see the kids more if we split up, so I am taking their advice with a grain of salt.
Thumb rule #1: when a couple has troubles and only one of them wants to go to counseling, the other partner is the one most responsible for the troubles.
Thumb rule #2: when only one partner actually goes to counseling, the couple is about to become apart.
I think you should give counselling a good try first.... sometimes there can be real breakthroughs in understanding.
The trouble with dealing with controlling persons of either gender, whether or not you are passive, is that at some point you just want to get away from them. Whether a controlling person can become less so? I don't suppose people entirely change personalities, but behavior can be adjusted when resentments are dispelled, doubts assuaged, defense mechanisms clarified.
Maybe some people who know more about counselling/therapy on this site will see the topic and speak up.
She wants to go to counseling, and I do to. I'm hoping it will work. But she thinks she is "right" and I think she will have to change or relinguish control to make it work. If she thinks she is in the right and is not willing to budge, then we are in trouble.
Could it have anything to do with the fact that you are indeed in law enforcement and subject to being called away to the job without notice?
Maybe that has your wife worried. What would you do with the kids if that were to happen?
This may be another problem of mine. I feel like a freakin wuss, so to speak. I have two different lives. I'm totally opposite in my job. I interview suspects and confront them. I don't shy away from confrontation at work. I am require to be assertive in many aspects of my job. But when it comes to my wife, it's different. I almost feel ashamed that I'm even in this position.
davrukr--
At the moment your marriage is unsatisfactory. You feel defranchised. Your wife feels her control is threatened.
Successful counseling will change both of you--or show each of you that the marriage cannot be saved.
The outing to the deer camp doesn't seem all that dangerous to me except that if your parents (and brother?) are urging an end to the marriage your wife may be more worried about the kids being turned against her by their grandfather and uncle than by the guns.
You've waited 4 1/2 years for independent father/son/daughter outings. This was your choice--or a choice you cooperated with.
Remember, slowly, slowly catchee monkee. You can't change 4 1/2 years in one weekend.
Also, keep in mind that your goal is (or should be) more independent contact with your kids--not to thwart your wife.
Good luck.
Butrflynet wrote:Could it have anything to do with the fact that you are indeed in law enforcement and subject to being called away to the job without notice?
Maybe that has your wife worried. What would you do with the kids if that were to happen?
I don't think this is an issue. We are not the emergency response type so anything that did come up, I would have plenty of time to make arrangements. This is a side issue, but she could care less about what I do at work. Not much support there.
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