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Bible Party of the USA

 
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Oct, 2008 08:49 am
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;61866 wrote:
If you have read the Declaration of Independence then you are either deliberately ignoring the wording or have not attempted to understand those portions that relate directly to the Christian basis of our country's founding.

I believe we've been through this discussion before, but if you'd like, we can walk through it again.


creator = god of Abraham??? :dunno:
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Oct, 2008 08:16 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;61869 wrote:
creator = god of Abraham??? :dunno:


The creator is God. There is only one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel.

What else would you surmise the signers of the Declaration of Independence meant?
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2008 01:08 am
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;61912 wrote:
The creator is God. There is only one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel.

What else would you surmise the signers of the Declaration of Independence meant?


OMG!? Are you really this delusional?

There is only one god......ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE! But we are not talking about the bible, we are talking about the founding fathers, which of course i have established already that some of them do not follow or believe the bible. Virtually every religion has a creator god, and the founding fathers allowed people to interpret this "creator" according to each person's own religion. If you are Hindu they were talking about Brahma, if you're Jewish they were talking about Yahweh, if your Muslim they were talking about Allah and so forth...The foundering father's where all about FREEDOM OF RELIGION, they weren't trying to impose one religion on people, that would undermine the principal they were trying to establish.

creator means something different to different people. You are oblivious to the fact they other people have their own perceptions.
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 12:27 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;61939 wrote:
OMG!? Are you really this delusional?

There is only one god......ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE! But we are not talking about the bible, we are talking about the founding fathers, which of course i have established already that some of them do not follow or believe the bible. Virtually every religion has a creator god, and the founding fathers allowed people to interpret this "creator" according to each person's own religion. If you are Hindu they were talking about Brahma, if you're Jewish they were talking about Yahweh, if your Muslim they were talking about Allah and so forth...The foundering father's where all about FREEDOM OF RELIGION, they weren't trying to impose one religion on people, that would undermine the principal they were trying to establish.

creator means something different to different people. You are oblivious to the fact they other people have their own perceptions.


How many Hindus were in the colonies at the time of the US revolution, Muslim, any religion other than Christian or Jewish?
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 12:31 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;61939 wrote:
OMG!? Are you really this delusional?

There is only one god......ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE! But we are not talking about the bible, we are talking about the founding fathers, which of course i have established already that some of them do not follow or believe the bible. Virtually every religion has a creator god, and the founding fathers allowed people to interpret this "creator" according to each person's own religion. If you are Hindu they were talking about Brahma, if you're Jewish they were talking about Yahweh, if your Muslim they were talking about Allah and so forth...The foundering father's where all about FREEDOM OF RELIGION, they weren't trying to impose one religion on people, that would undermine the principal they were trying to establish.

creator means something different to different people. You are oblivious to the fact they other people have their own perceptions.


"In Middle English “Divine Providence” means the foreknowing and beneficent care and government of God; divine direction, control, or guidance ME." Page 1696, The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary, Oxford at the Clarendon Press, Oxford University Press, 1973.

From the Declaration of Independence IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776. Emphasis added.

"THE UNANIMOUS DECLARATION of the thirteen united STATES OF AMERICA,...
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

John Hancock
Benj. Harrison
Lewis Morris
Button Gwinnett
Thos. Nelson, Jr.
Richd. Stockton
Lyman Hall
Francis Lightfoot Lee
Jno. Witherspoon
Geo. Walton
Carter Braxton
Fras. Hopkinson
Wm. Hooper
Robt. Morris
John Hart
Joseph Hewes
Benjamin Rush
Abra. Clark
John Penn
Benj. Franklin
Josiah Bartlett
Edward Rutledge
John Morton
Wm. Whipple
Thos. Heyward, Jr.
Geo. Clymer
Saml. Adams
Thomas Lynch, Jr.
Jas. Smith
John Adams
Arthur Middleton
Geo. Taylor
Robt. Treat Paine
Samuel Chase
James Wilson
Elbridge Gerry
Wm. Paca
Geo. Ross
Step. Hopkins
Thos. Stone
Caesar Rodney
William Ellery
Charles Carroll of Carrollton
Geo. Read
Roger Sherman
Tho. M: Kean
Sam. Huntington
George Wythe
Wm. Floyd
Wm. Williams
Richard Henry Lee
Phil. Livingston
Oliver Wolcott
Th. Jefferson
Frans. Lewis
Matthew Thornton"
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 12:51 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;61939 wrote:
OMG!? Are you really this delusional?

There is only one god......ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE! But we are not talking about the bible, we are talking about the founding fathers, which of course i have established already that some of them do not follow or believe the bible. Virtually every religion has a creator god, and the founding fathers allowed people to interpret this "creator" according to each person's own religion. If you are Hindu they were talking about Brahma, if you're Jewish they were talking about Yahweh, if your Muslim they were talking about Allah and so forth...The foundering father's where all about FREEDOM OF RELIGION, they weren't trying to impose one religion on people, that would undermine the principal they were trying to establish.

creator means something different to different people. You are oblivious to the fact they other people have their own perceptions.


The founders of our nation were thinking men. Name the ones that were not a Christian in thought or deed. What they expected was that men and women would live according to the Word of God or choose not to live by it. They were accepting God?s Word. It is written:

Dt 30:11 ? 30:20, 11 "This command that I give you today is certainly not too difficult or beyond your reach. 12 It is not in heaven, so that you have to ask, 'Who will go up to heaven, get it for us, and proclaim it to us so that we may follow it?' 13 And it is not across the sea, so that you have to ask, 'Who will cross the sea, get it for us, and proclaim it to us so that we may follow it?' 14 But the message is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may follow it. 15 See, today I have set before you life and prosperity, death and adversity. 16 For I am commanding you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commands, statutes, and ordinances, so that you may live and multiply, and the LORD your God may bless you in the land you are entering to possess. 17 But if your heart turns away and you do not listen and you are led astray to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I tell you today that you will certainly perish and will not live long in the land you are entering to possess across the Jordan. 19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Choose life so that you and your descendants may live, 20 love the LORD your God, obey Him, and remain faithful to Him. For He is your life, and He will prolong your life in the land the LORD swore to give to your fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 01:06 am
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;61965 wrote:
How many Hindus were in the colonies at the time of the US revolution, Muslim, any religion other than Christian or Jewish?


Not many? But does it matter? Some of the founding fathers believe simply in a creator a god but not in any specific one, which is why they wrote "creator" and not "Yahweh" in the declaration of independence! If they were specifically talking about the abrahamic god they would've said so. But they didn't want to impose religious views on anyone.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 01:10 am
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;61966 wrote:
"In Middle English ?Divine Providence? means the foreknowing and beneficent care and government of God; divine direction, control, or guidance ME." Page 1696, The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary, Oxford at the Clarendon Press, Oxford University Press, 1973.

From the Declaration of Independence IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776. Emphasis added.



Divine providence could apply to any religion or to non-religious theism. YET AGAIN you have failed to show me how this country was founded specifically on christian principals.
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 01:15 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;61968 wrote:
Not many? But does it matter? Some of the founding fathers believe simply in a creator a god but not in any specific one, which is why they wrote "creator" and not "Yahweh" in the declaration of independence! If they were specifically talking about the abrahamic god they would've said so. But they didn't want to impose religious views on anyone.


Yes it matters. For your assertion to be true there would need to be a mind-set prevalent among the founding fathers that considered religions other than those who accepted the Bible, the Word of God.

Your assertion ignores the laws and society in which the founding fathers drafted the Declaration and Constitution. While it was legal in the colonies to worship God (the God of the Bible) as you saw fit, it was not legal to practice witchcraft or other forms of religion prevalent outside western civilization. Stating that this is not factual shows ignorance or is a deliberate a lie.
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 01:18 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;61969 wrote:
Divine providence could apply to any religion or to non-religious theism. YET AGAIN you have failed to show me how this country was founded specifically on christian principals.


I don't need to show you. You can determine it all by your lonesome.

Here's how. Read the Bible and examine western history then do a comparison contrast between the values of western civilization (Judeo-Christian) and those of the rest of the world.
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 01:22 am
@Volunteer,
Fatal,

Are you in Highschool or College?
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 01:23 am
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;61967 wrote:
The founders of our nation were thinking men. Name the ones that were not a Christian in thought or deed. What they expected was that men and women would live according to the Word of God or choose not to live by it. They were accepting God?s Word. It is written:



"My parents had early given me religious impressions, and brought me through my childhood piously in the Dissenting way. But I was scarce fifteen, when, after doubting by turns of several points, as I found them disputed in the different books I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself. Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they "were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's Lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."

-Ben Franklin



-------

Biographer Merrill D. Peterson summarizes Jefferson's theology:

?First, that the Christianity of the churches was unreasonable, therefore unbelievable, but that stripped of priestly mystery, ritual, and dogma, reinterpreted in the light of historical evidence and human experience, and substituting the Newtonian cosmology for the discredited Biblical one, Christianity could be conformed to reason. Second, morality required no divine sanction or inspiration, no appeal beyond reason and nature, perhaps not even the hope of heaven or the fear of hell; and so the whole edifice of Christian revelation came tumbling to the ground."

In the book Washington and Religion by Paul F. Boller, Jr., we read on page 92, "Washington was no infidel, if by infidel is meant unbeliever. Washington had an unquestioning faith in Providence and, as we have seen, he voiced this faith publicly on numerous occasions. That this was no mere rhetorical flourish on his part, designed for public consumption, is apparent from his constant allusions to Providence in his personal letters. There is every reason to believe, from a careful analysis of religious references in his private correspondence, that Washington?s reliance upon a Grand Designer along Deist lines was as deep-seated and meaningful for his life as, say, Ralph Waldo Emerson?s serene confidence in a Universal Spirit permeating the ever shifting appearances of the everyday world."


-----

"He may believe that Jesus was crucified, because many others were crucified, but who is to prove he was crucified for the sins of the world? This article has no evidence, not even in the New Testament; and if it had, where is the proof that the New Testament, in relating things neither probable nor provable, is to be believed as true? When an article in a creed does not admit of proof nor of probability, the salvo is to call it revelation; but this is only putting one difficulty in the place of another, for it is as impossible to prove a thing to be revelation as it is to prove that Mary was gotten with child by the Holy Ghost. Here it is that the religion of Deism is superior to the Christian Religion. It is free from all those invented and torturing articles that shock our reason or injure our humanity, and with which the Christian religion abounds. Its creed is pure, and sublimely simple. It believes in God, and there it rests."

-Thomas Paine



-----


Founding Fathers were primarily Deists, Holmes says | University Relations
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 01:27 am
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;61971 wrote:
I don't need to show you. You can determine it all by your lonesome.

Here's how. Read the Bible and examine western history then do a comparison contrast between the values of western civilization (Judeo-Christian) and those of the rest of the world.


Sorry, you're gonna have to do better than that. If you want to start a political party based on a notion it is your duty to make sure that notion is well founded on fact.
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 07:55 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;61974 wrote:
Sorry, you're gonna have to do better than that. If you want to start a political party based on a notion it is your duty to make sure that notion is well founded on fact.


Are you a prospective member of the Bible Party of the USA?
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 07:56 am
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;61972 wrote:
Fatal,

Are you in Highschool or College?


Request an answer.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 08:45 am
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;62058 wrote:
Request an answer.


sorry i must have missed that one.

But i have to ask what the relevancy is? :dunno:
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 08:47 am
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;62057 wrote:
Are you a prospective member of the Bible Party of the USA?


y?

may i ask.
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 09:08 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;62060 wrote:
sorry i must have missed that one.

But i have to ask what the relevancy is? :dunno:


I have posted my age on my profile. You have not. You seem to want to discuss this topic. Discussion is communication. A good communicator analyzes their audience and adapts their delivery to that audience to improve communication. Age is one important factor in that analysis.
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 09:12 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;62061 wrote:
y?

may i ask.


Of course you may ask. I can also ask why you ask. Then, we can continue to ask why the other person is asking until one gets tired and answers the question with intrepidity.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 01:15 pm
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;62063 wrote:
I have posted my age on my profile. You have not. You seem to want to discuss this topic. Discussion is communication. A good communicator analyzes their audience and adapts their delivery to that audience to improve communication. Age is one important factor in that analysis.



There is a reason i don't have my age posted, and i like to keep it that way. It makes no difference to this or any other conversation. Lest it be used against me in ad hominems or it sways someone's opinion of my thoughts. Nor do i want to know your age, because i don't want my opinion of you to change based on some non-factor. Remember you are not trying to discredit me you are trying to discredit my arguments.
 

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