Bible Party of the USA

Time had a beginning, as it and all the universe was created by God. God was never created for he is eternal he simply exists outside the boundaries of time. Therefore if something indeed has a beginning, it indeed has to have an ending. That very well answers the question of "where did God come from", he came from nowhere and was created by nothing, for he always was the great "I AM" eternal in his being, thus He is omnipresent, existing outside of time and space to introduce himself along the time line at any place and at any time He desires. He had no beginning therefore He has no ending (He does not bow at the feet of that which He created). He created the very Laws of Physics and can very well breach them with only a spoken word, we exist at his well, and to serve him, as the apostle Paul described when speaking to the philosophers and orators in the middle of the Greek council in Athens(Areopagus), men that spent their life pondering and questioning new theories and channeling human ideologies of thought(Acts 17:26-28). Speaking as such, Paul answered a question that has baffled man throughout his history.....

WHAT IS THE MEANING AND PURPOSE OF MAN'S LIFE? And he as presented before proceeded to do so, in its simplicity (Acts 17:21). In short, it is our inherent duty to seek out and serve God, He that created us. We do so, without thought nor reason sometimes. Have none ever experienced the longing and loneliness that comes from simply gazing upon the creation of Gods handiwork, when glancing into the clear of space and the star adorned summer night sky? A feeling of missing something, or simply being "homesick"? It's in our nature, and has been from the beginning of time itself, but we are burdened by the curse of Free Will that the first man placed upon us, when he indeed did partake from the tree of Knowledge, and realized that we are made in the Image of God and have free will to guide our destiny, and that includes the choice of service....Either serve God or Man and his sin filled nature. For God indeed made these very physical laws that man must abide in, and He breaches these laws only when creating something new, i.e. the universe, man, etc....He breaches these laws of nature that He created when "confirming" new covenant relationships with man, as He continually changes and adapts the Laws to give man the ability to be in His presence eternally. The many covenants that were antiquated where done so, not due to the imperfection of God....but due to the imperfection of man being unable to overcome sin and its deceit, the failure as always rests upon the shoulders of mans burden....his inability to cease from the nature of SIN. God as shown His love for mankind one last time in the New Testament Covenant of Grace, where He Himself, came to earth in the from of the Word to take the burden of Sin away from man and simply offer eternity as a Gift....in exchange for that which is "willed" to us in this New Testament, all we have to do is accept the conditions thereof, they are not hard, as they all are contained in one concept....LOVE, to others as we to ourselves. For if we do this we will live by the Law that has been written upon our hearts and be "OBEDIENT IN ALL THINGS (11Cor.2:9), not because we must, but because we can, due to the respect and Love we have not only for one another, but for the Groom, Jesus Christ...it is our duty through love to keep His commandments, not by the Letter Which is written on Stone, but by the Spirit which is written upon our hearts. RD

All that rambling and you still haven't answered the question!

And if that question is concerning time. Yes time has a length, as the very fabric of time is measured by motion and travel, be it mass or matter, it is in sequential chronological measurements of speed. Thus if time is winding down, and has an end, it must scientifically have a beginning, and due to the "scientific" fact that nothing creates itself, there must be a "CREATOR". And that creator must exist outside of that which was began or created and thus, is just as professed "omnipresent" existing outside and observant to the created. Of whatever nature that creator is....to man which was gestated and generated within the confines of that which was created, TIME AND SPACE....IT IS GOD. RD

Ever hear of the "big bang"? Do you think is was a caused event of an uncaused/cause?

prove to me that time has a begining, then prove to me there was nothing before time began.....you can't, neither can I. The idea that everything began at one point or that everything always was are both equally valid ideas because they are both explainations to the same question and neither has any real evidence to support them.

What is so hard about saying [SIZE="3"]I DON'T KNOW[/SIZE]?

Science indeed has calculated that time and space are "thermodynamically" running down due to the "displacement" of energy. Therefore if something has an End it must therefore have a "BEGINNING",

for the universe to be physically measured it must abide within physical laws, and the physical laws of science do confirm that at some point in the future "time" will cease, as all motion ceases.

When taken to the extreme paradox of the scientific method.....Science either has to be wrong about Time and Space expanding and losing energy, thus running down, or they are wrong about time not having a beginning. It is a PARDOX, its either or or, not both.

So science indeed points to the fact that the Universe had a beginning and a beginning points to the fact that it had to be "created",

or the Pardox of something creating itself would rear its ugly head. And if that which exists outside of the universe created everything, then that which created is by logic greater that which was created, we simply call that force GOD. RD

science cannot prove that the universe has an end, and i have yet to hear of a scientist that will say that it can.



Confirmed!? Well i'd like to see this confirmation, but perhaps i am just "out-of-the-loop". :beat:



or perhaps you are just falsly asscoiating a loss of energy to an end of time, when no such link exists. So then your so-called paradox falls apart when built upon false presumptions.



if you're talking about the big bang then yes science does indeed point to it, but with current technology we are unable to prove that there has been only 1 big bang, and as for the second part science does not point to a need for creation.



not only do you call that force god, but you've given it a specific name, attributed specific emotions to that force, given it a personallity, given it an image, believed that the force had performed very specific acts, and that force had a specific heir....and you've done all of this because of some ancient nomadic sand people wrote in some books some thousands of years ago!

Your whole argument falls on the fact that Science indeed shows that the universe has an "END", that it will one day stop expanding and all motion will cease, therefore all time will cease. The evidence is vast and numerous that point to this conclusion. Like I said, when you get to the "end" of your "natural" knowledge, one must encounter that which is "supernatural" or beyond that which is natural. Science at some point must encounter the "paradox", for as much as they would like you to believe, they are not superior in knowledge to He that created the source of that knowledge. RD

okay allow me to clear up some misunderstandings you may have about universal expansion. First of all, science does point to universal expansion is indeed happening, how you conclude that this means the universe will end i have no idea. The oscillating theory is based upon universal expansion, and your argument makes some false assumptions about that. There are two parts to the oscillating theory: The closed universe, and the open universe. the closed universe basicly asserts that the universe will cease it's expansion and will either stay the same forever or it will reverse and eventually collapse upon itself. The open universe asserts that the universe will continue to expand forever, but if matter was ended then indeed the universe would have not continued on forever...thus it wouldn't be an open universe!

So you are taking the "position" of an eternally existing "UNIVERSE", with no beginning and no ending, that there has always been time and space and it will never end, is that correct? Or are you coping out and saying that you nor science does not know, to avoid the conclusion that many have reached, that there was a beginning but there was nothing that caused this beginning? I must know to take your conclusion to the next level of the PARADOX. RD

Admiting you don't know isn't a cop out if it's true, in which case it is true for both of us. Yes, i admit that i don't know but the most logical answer is that the universe has always existed with no beginning and no end.

So you neither believe in Mr. Einsteins theory or the Laws of Thermodynamics?

Mr. Einstein has shown that time is linked to both matter and space. God cannot be limited by time because he existed before time was created, thus he has no beginning or ending. Thus we must conclude that A. He/God is the universe and the universe is without a beginning or an ending as you have thus admitted to believing, or B. God created the Universe and the universe is winding down and thus did in fact have a beginning. Lets go with B due to the fact that it can be scientifically proven by physical laws.

The Law of Thermodynamics has two such proofs. 1.) THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF MASS/ENERGY IN THE UNIVERSE IS CONSTANT. 2.) THE AMOUNT OF ENERGY AVAILABLE FOR WORK IS RUNNING OUT OR "ENTROPHY" IS INCREASING TO A "MAXIMUM".

If the total amount of energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted ALL usable energy. For example, all radioactive atoms would have decayed, every part of the universe would be one constant temperature (is it, are we here on earth the same temperature as that on the sun?) and no future work would be possible. So the obvious corollary( logical statement that is easily proven) is that the universe began a "finite" time ago with a lot of energy that was usable and is still being used because the temperature throughout the universe is not constant, but it is running down.

The universe cannot be self caused, nothing can create itself, because that would mean that it existed before it came into existence, which is a logical absurdity......A PARADOX, that science refuses to address, simply because it is limited by the natural laws of physics, when that which controls our very gestation of being is existent in the "unnautral" or (supernatural if you will), because it can not be explained via the natural scientific methodology and is proven to actually "exist"....that my friend is the cop out, because science does not like the direction in which all its laws point, they point directly back from which they came....the creator, of whatever nature it may be, it is God to us. RD

So you neither believe in Mr. Einsteins theory or the Laws of Thermodynamics?

No. don't put words in my mouth and i will be inclined to return the favor.

Mr. Einstein has shown that time is linked to both matter and space.

true

God cannot be limited by time because he existed before time was created, thus he has no beginning or ending.

assuming he exists in the first place...

Thus we must conclude that A. He/God is the universe and the universe is without a beginning or an ending as you have thus admitted to believing, or B. God created the Universe and the universe is winding down and thus did in fact have a beginning. Lets go with B due to the fact that it can be scientifically proven by physical laws.

Not only are you unable to prove that the universe is going to end, but you are also unable to prove that an ending requires a beginning, have you ever heard of a ray?

The Law of Thermodynamics has two such proofs. 1.) THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF MASS/ENERGY IN THE UNIVERSE IS CONSTANT. 2.) THE AMOUNT OF ENERGY AVAILABLE FOR WORK IS RUNNING OUT OR "ENTROPHY" IS INCREASING TO A "MAXIMUM".

you are talking about the oscillating theory's "open universe" which you know absolutely nothing about. Open universe is only 1 of the two possibilities considering many scientists think the the expansion of the universe may halt or reverse all togather (closed universe) would not support your "hypothesis" even if "open universe" were true you cannot show me how an ever expanding universe would cause destruction of matter, which if you are aware is an impossibility according to the laws of physics, it is true that life may end at that point but matter cannot be destroyed nor created.


If the total amount of energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted ALL usable energy.

you are under the impression that energy can be "exhaused" or destroyed, but according to the laws of physics energy only changes form it cannot be destroy and thus there will never be any less energy or any more

For example, all radioactive atoms would have decayed,

ever hear of a half-life? Theoreticly radioatcive atoms will never completely decay.

every part of the universe would be one constant temperature (is it, are we here on earth the same temperature as that on the sun?) and no future work would be possible.

an end to life does not mean an end of the universe, matter would always exist.

So the obvious corollary( logical statement that is easily proven) is that the universe began a "finite" time ago with a lot of energy that was usable and is still being used because the temperature throughout the universe is not constant, but it is running down.

if it is so easily proven then prove to me that the universe began a finite time ago!

The universe cannot be self caused, nothing can create itself, because that would mean that it existed before it came into existence, which is a logical absurdity......A PARADOX. RD

that is not what i've said is it? I said the universe has always existed.

Well I'm back. Moved to Maine and decided the job and location are not what they need to be. So, I'll be moving on and my particiation will continue to be intermitent. That's OK, there's enough discussion about the conventional political parties and their antics.

Talk later.

Anyone ready for a new party yet???

Would Reverend Wright be able to join it? Would he be able to help lead it? After all, he reads the Bible too.:wtf: