The United States is not a Christian Nation

You'll have to read more than that to understand what we're talking about, and I don't feel like repeating our conversation. Read some of markx15's and my post about using logic to talk about God, etc.

Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party of America?

No. Did you come to that conclusion using any process of thinking that is currently known to man? Because I think anyone who's read a few of my posts could see I'm definately not a communist.

It was a joke. I was thinking of that nutty CIA instructor in "Confessions of a Dangerous Mind: The Unauthorized Biography of Chuck Barrows".

Hey, I went to Mass yesterday. First time in months. Man, it felt great. It dawned on me that I've been taking a lot from my religion, which totally sustains me, from one day to the next, but giving nothing back in return. I plan to resume regular attendance. Failing to go to Mass is a sign of weakness. Amen.

LOL, I did think it sounded familiar, but I thought that you might actually be serious.

I go to Mass weekly, and have for all of my life. Probably will for the rest of it. Glad to see that you're going to try to make the commitement to do that as well in an age where more and more people are turning away from it.

"I go to Mass weekly, and have for all of my life."

I admire that. It's a sign of true commitment. I've clung to Catholicism all my life, but have been a rotten church-goer. Weakness. Utter weakness. I'm ashamed of myself. It was probably just my paranoia, but I thought I saw the priest staring at me from the altar. I felt guilty. I pray I'll find the dedication to keep going to Mass. It's the least I can do to show my gratitude to God. :headbang:

The answer we are all looking for is this. The founding peoples of this country all came from a european country. The primary religion in those countries was the catholic religion. The catholic religion was know for controlling these contries and persacuting those who would not accept the catholic law. Yes those english settlers left England and settled here to get away from the total controll of the catholics....but the laws that were issued were also based on religious beliefs. The words, UNDER GOD, in our pledge of allegence says it all. This country was infact started by religious morals. I myself believe that there should be a thick seperation between religion and state. I am religious, but i do know that nowhere in the bible does it say force people to believe in me. It wants you to lead by example. It has been proven that alot of things in the bible were added in by the early popes. To help keep controll of the catholic people. You can't govern a country that constitutes freedom of religion by forcing a certain religion on someone. religion should be a private practice, a personal relationship between you and your God or higher being. The majority of the problems in this world is caused by religious fanatics who believe that everyone should believe what they believe. So they try to force people to do so. In this they are breaking the code of every religion there is. This is ruining the credibility of religion. This is the truth. There is no objection to this. Just take the time to study what's going on in the world. Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, The norther part of Africa. All the same religion yet fight each other because of diffrent translations. Organized religion is killing religion and taking everyone else down with it!!!:dunno:

Nope, wrong on two counts. The English settlers came to America to escape Anglican persecuting; they were minority Protestants.

And the Bible was composed of books already existing.

No not wrong. England was governed by the catholic religion along with many other european countries. All of the kings in those countries were forcing catholic beliefs on thier countries. This is why there were so many people trying to get away from those countries. And the bible was not made up of books already existing you fool. It was made up of scrolls written in a language that was lost and smart fellas like yourself thought they knew enough of the lost language to translate it....good enough. And it has been proven that alot of the scrolls, including the scrolls of Jesus himself, were thrown out by the early pope who put the bible together as he saw fit and added what he thought should go with it. Open your mind and do some actualy study of the history of the bible and not just get all of your info FROM the bible. You can talk to any christian of strong faith who have masters in the history of the bible and they will tell you the same. Or just watch the damn history channel and get the same information.

You're not trapped by parties, but by bad information. The Pilgrims and Purtians certainly DID flee Anglican Church authority. You don't know your history, at all. Look up 'Plymouth Colony + 1620' and READ!!!!!!!! Did you pass your Social Studies TAKS?:headbang:

You know what, you are right, i was mistaken about the pilgrims. My mind is in another place right now, so i guess i'm 2 for 3. But at least i am man enough to admit it. And you must admit, it is hard to find that these days. And i never took the taks test....i took the taas.

When we speak of the founding of our country and mention Christianity or other religious sects why do we forget about the insitution of slavery? Buying another human being, where is the religion there? Oh right, it was socio-economical, right.

So when we come down from our mighty pillar on high, claiming to be the expert on the concept of GOD, you may want to consider what you say.

America claims to be the land of the free and certainly I want America to be that country. But sadly we are not. We do not live up the the ideas (not actions, beliefs etc), but ideas and concepts of our founding fathers. We fail to see them threw new eyes. The eyes of our present era. We fail to mention that the evolution of our country resulted in the near genocide of an entire race of people. Where was the religion then?

Women were not given the right to vote until relatively recent. And recent still a entire race of people were "given" that right.

But some have thought....slavery and genocide is in our past...and we should "get over it".

So, is America a Christian country? America is a country of duality. Until we accept our true history we will never be free. We will never realize our potential. For, I theorize, if we were to truly accept slavery and genocide as historic facts in American history, how could we possible bicker over religious freedom?

I believe, as an American, everyone is entitled to have or not have a personal relationship with something larger than themselves.

Try this - what if is evolution is the Hand of God at work?

Religion as defined:

A religion is a set of beliefs and practices generally held by a community, involving adherence to codified beliefs and rituals and study of ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction.
All patriarchal religions present a common quality, the "hallmark of patriarchal religious thought": the division of the world in two comprehensive domains, one sacred, the other profane. [1] Religion is often described as a communal system for the coherence of belief focusing on a system of thought, unseen being, person, or object, that is considered to be supernatural, sacred, divine, or of the highest truth. Moral codes, practices, values, institutions, tradition, rituals, and scriptures are often traditionally associated with the core belief, and these may have some overlap with concepts in secular philosophy. Religion is also often described as a "way of life".

Uh-huh, and was this before or after they proved 9-11 was an inside job. The council of Rome (not just Pope Damasus), I think, decided the books of the Bible based on their best knowledge, and of course they didn't include heretical books.

Uh-huh, and was this before or after they proved 9-11 was an inside job. The council of Rome (not just Pope Damasus), I think, decided the books of the Bible based on their best knowledge, and of course they didn't include heretical books.[/QUOTE]

Who were they to decide what was heretical? They threw out whatever went against what they personally thought. Anything that kept them from controlling thier fallowers. No one else saw the scrolls that were thrown out, how do we know that those were not just as important if not more important than the scrolls that made it into the bible? I, personaly, refuse to blindly believe everything someone tells me. I like to listen to difrent opinions and make my own, logicaly, based on what i have learned.


This was not from any nuttjob propumentery. This is History channel knowledge(from people who have devoted their entire lives to study this specific subject) mixed with personal conversations with bible scholors. My pastor and the three of his sons who are in the ministry are just a few that i can think of top of my head. You can't believe in a religion without questioning and doubting. It's only healthy to question the things you base your life on. As a personal relationship, It's your job as a person/individual to allow your "God" to speak to you. "God" would not have given you the ability to reason logicaly if he didn't want you to use it. Did you also know that The tythe started as a law, sort of a tax thing to build the gigantic, idolic, vatican city as we know it. Like i have said plenty times before, church is not a building, it's the congregation, and a congregation is not defined as hundreds of people. It can be just 2 or 3. Jesus tought his beleifs on street corners and in the desert. He had church no matter how many fallowers he had with him at the time. Organized religion is no better than our country right now. Way too many politics and leaders trying to prove they are better or more intelligent than each other. In that fashion they teach people to be aregant. So lets all just jump on the band-wagon.

I deplore those who quote history with out bothering to study up.
Trapped quoted the pledge "one nation under god..." from the pledge of allegiance as being from the founding fathers! Did you get an F in history or something. Here is a recap of the history of the pledge:
The original Pledge of Allegiance, "I pledge allegiance to my flag and the Republic for which it stands -- One nation indivisible -- with liberty and justice for all," was written in September of 1892 by Francis Bellamy for "The Youth's Companion" magazine in Boston. The phrase was printed on leaflets and sent to schools throughout the United States.
The first organized use of the Pledge of Allegiance came on Oct. 12, 1892, when some 12 million American school children recited it to commemorate the 400-year anniversary of Columbus' voyage.

In 1923, the first National Flag Conference in Washington D.C. voted to change the words "my flag" to "the Flag of the United States of America."

Congress officially recognized the Pledge of Allegiance in 1942, but in 1943, the Supreme Court ruled that public school students could not be forced to recite it.

The words "under God" were added in 1954 by then President Eisenhower, who stated at the time, "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."

I see your quoting the HIstory channel now.....this ought to be good. The history channel gives breif overviews into history, frequently confusing viewers with omissions and leading people to draw conclusions without the full picture.

These people are commonly referred to as 'early Church leaders', here I will call them 'people who know a hell of a lot more about Christianity than you.' They were a mix of the religious leader, not as you claimed, a bunch of popes. They were the only people who could fairly decide on which books were authentic, Gnostic idiocy, and books deserving of the Apocrypha.

I never knew the History Channel were such opinionated anti-Christian assholes. You seem to not realize that tithing goes back to Abraham and is part of the Law God gave to Moses.

Well, that makes sense. The most senior US military man at the time who'd been through the crucible of WWII with his troops would know something about faith in God and the basis of the Nation. He'd know on a gut level the importance of faith and the favor and guidance of Providence in the souls of the founders when they went through a similar crucible.

"The United States is not a Christian Nation"

I support this position. I would futher add that the United States of America as a culture can not be defined based on any one religious philosophy.

"You met both Bush and the Clintons? Is it possible that we have someone of political importance on Conflicting views?"

I certainly hope so.

"Where is it written that you have to be a christian to be Republican? Religion has it's place, and it is not in government, it is in the private sector."

I completely agree with this view.

No, we have a strong underlaying Christian heritage in the US.

Freemasons founded the US. Washington DC is filled with Masonic Architecture.
If you want to dig a little deeper 33 degree and higher Masons worship Satan.